Synodontis granulosa question

[amiidae]

Hi guys,

It is possible to house 2 mid size (abt 5inch) Synodontis granulosa in a 120g tank ? (interm of aggression)

Also, what sort of tank deco would be good for this cat ?

Thanks

ben

[Marc van Arc]

Hi Ben,
From what I've heard from Sidguppy (who has been keeping them for years now) this is one of the most agressive Synos.
From what I know from experience two is hardly ever a good number.

Wait for Alex; he could fill you in much better.

[Richard B]

If you look through the keepers of Grannys, there are people who keep more than one in the same tank - it can be tricky at times but can be done. Two is about the worst you could get though & not something id reccommend unless you set up a specific region of the tank where one can get that the other cant - an incomplete divider type of thing, used for breeding large cichlids where a smaller individual can get through a purpose made hole. It would be easier with more of them. I have 3 mixed in with various other tang synos (& njassae) in a crowded situation (like mbuna but with synos, not cichlids) with 50% of the the tank volume crammed with rockwork - this works as aggression is spread with a definate hierarcy & each Granny is a different size from the other - 1 large w/c & 2 t/b both smaller. The big Granny is top tog without a doubt & has asserted her authority on one occasion by ripping the other Granny's fins to shreds - not a hint of anything at all now but they all know where they stand.

At NHA where they are bred, they had a 4 foot with about a dozen 4inchers in that they were growing out - this achieved the same effect of an armed truce. However for breeding purposes, a prime pair were selected & kept separately whilst conditioning up & only brought together for the spawning attempt

In terms of decor, rockwork is the obvious choice - i prefer lots of it reaching up to the surface - in a 120g i'd say 3 piles - one in the middle & one at each end.

[amiidae]

Thanks for the inputs, guys.

btw, Richard,
Do you observed any diff in temperament between male and female ? also, if given a choice to take one, would you take a M or a F ? and why ?


Hope to hear fm the rest as well.

[MatsP]

Thanks for the inputs, guys.

btw, Richard,
Do you observed any diff in temperament between male and female ? also, if given a choice to take one, would you take a M or a F ? and why ?


Hope to hear fm the rest as well.

If you have both male and female, I'd choose to have a mix - then at least you have SOME possibility of breeding the fish. That's nearly always my choice if at all possible [even if they aren't really sexable, I try my best to pick some skinny and some fat, some small and some large or whatever it may be that I think makes some male and some female].

If finances allows, I'd say getting more than 2 is a good choice.

--
Mats

[Marc van Arc]

If you have both male and female, I'd choose to have a mix - then at least you have SOME possibility of breeding the fish.

Mats,
I take it you've apparently missed the initial question (both fish in 1 tank) and the replies (especially Richard's)?
These can't be kept in pairs. Not M/F, F/F or M/M.
So (still) advising to get a pair is not very helpful. Or rather: confusing.

[Richard B]

My biggest happens to be female & she is the boss - i think this also applies to Sid's fish - coincidence or no? I cannot say.

If you are only going for one, i might suggest a male as it might be easier to add others in the future but this is speculation.

[MatsP]

Mats,
I take it you've apparently missed the initial question (both fish in 1 tank) and the replies (especially Richard's)?
These can't be kept in pairs. Not M/F, F/F or M/M.
So (still) advising to get a pair is not very helpful. Or rather: confusing.

Ehm, what I was trying to say, but apparently didn't formulate quite as clearly as I thought it in my head, is that either get ONE fish (and then sex is of no consequence - at least not for this species, and the other fish would have to be reasonably capable of taking whatever the fish doles out, and I doubt it's a HUGE difference in behaviour), or get a group - in which case, a mix of sex is what I'm proposing. Not three females or three males, 1 female and 2 males, or 2 females and 1 male, or some such - of four, five or six fish.

[I thought a wrote something slightly different from what it reads back, if that makes sense...]

--
Mats

[sidguppy]

I used to have 5 and the largest female was the top honcho

she passed away last summer and since then it's been total war; because the nexzt in line is the dominant male and he's a killer.

I now have 4 and as far as I know now, this number is too small (!!)

2 will harass each other.

I started out with a pair and although the female din't kill the male, there was a lot of chasing; around the clock
the only times when there was no chasing was when the female was feeling like spawning and some nocturnal spawns happened, although all eggs were lost.

after the spawns she got back in the routine of hunting down the male for the occasional whopping spree.

so yes, they can be kept as a group.
I advise strongly that if you do; make sure the largest one is a female!
no, it's not advised to keep 2, regardless of sex.

and if you WANT a group, be prepared to spend some serious amounts of cash.

they're very expensive; at the moment they do about 350€ a piece over here.
and since the tank is already quite crowded I don't want to add another quarrelsome nasty agressive catfish


in my experience these are among the nastiest Synodontis I know. I've kept schall, angelicus, some large undefined longirostris like bycatch etc; but pound for pound the granulosus is the meanest of them all.

this does not stick to speciesmembers; the best matches are other Tanganyikan Syno's.
right now I've combined them with Synodontis njassae and I have to admit, this is not such a grand match after all.
I used to have 2 temporarily guests; 2 huge doradids.
a Pterodoras and a Megalodoras.
these heavily armed fish were ripped and nipped by the granulosus!
although the Megalodoras was twice the bulk of the largest Syno and longer as well,
and the Pterodoras was a tankbusting 1.5 footer and thickskinned like and old shoe......

the granny's also can and do chase cichlids. they're not afraid of any other fish.

[amiidae]

Mats,
Perhaps I wasn't clear in my earlier post. There are only 2 WC specimens available for me at the moment.

Richard,
FYI, I was supposed to get one in last Nov but the exporter sold it away and this 2 are new collect.

sidguppy,
In my last visit in HK last Nov, I saw 2 adult (housed in seperate tank) and they pretty much leave the rest of the non cat tankmates alone but again that might be the cover crowding that does the trick, there were B. tricoti, Tanga eel, Petrochromis sp & Fronts etc..

Both cats behave pretty differently, one would swim around in the open while the other would stays under cover most of the time.

Thanks for your input.

Looks like I have to go with one and hopefully I can get it in by Early Feb.

[amiidae]

Finally !!

[Richard B]

Congratulations Ben Welcome to the club.....

[andywoolloo]

[amiidae]

Thanks, guys.

I got lucky and bumped into this fish while I was looking for some cichlids.

[Rhinox]

Finally !!

Sorry to bump a 1+yo thread, but my god where can I get me one of those!

[MatsP]

Someone that imports from Africa, specificially from Lake Tanganyika. I checked with Rehoboth Aquatics, which is an African importer but they have mostly West/Central fish, so no rift lake fish.

They are FAR from common imports, and as such fetch fairly high prices when they are finally . I have seen them for sale at £150-200 (at around 3") - around US $250-300.

--
Mats

[toby]

Tough to find here in Canada and the US, but they do come up from time to time. I have several (4) I picked up from Atlantis and have also seen them available a couple of times from Old World - and then there are the private sales. Typically in the $250 range. Beautiful fish. My experience in the couple of years that I have had them, different than several others, is a syno that behaves relatively well with other synos, although most if not all of my synos housed with them are smaller than the granny. In fact, I have a couple of tanks where I have some hollow resin logs that the grannys have claimed and there are often other synos going in and out all day long. And I haven't had any banged up synos that are housed with them. I'll keep my fingers crossed as I say this.

[Rhinox]

I was just researching to find out if there were any catfish larger than multipunctata that I could keep in a large all male malawi hap/peacock cichlid tank I'm planning (8x2x2 240 minimum), found the granulosa profile, 10" *check*, hard water *check*, abosultely beautiful *check*

Then I start trying to source them and I find out how rare they are and realize I might never actually be able to find one

A LFS near me might actually have one. I'm going to go check at some point, but the pics I've seen of it it doesn't look ink-black like the one above. I'd spend a couple hundred dollars in a heartbeat for one that looks like that.

I sent an email over to atlantis but they don't have any listed for sale on their site.

[toby]

You'd be hard pressed to just find one on a list somewhere, out of the blue. You have to be watching lists pretty closely because they would move pretty quickly. Your best bet like for many of the rarer type fish is work with an importer you can trust and have possibly done business with before and ask them to find one/some for you and be patient, if that's what you want - they will get them, the question is when?. At the price they fetch it isn't usually an item they would stock in any numbers that's for sure.
You could try posting in the fish wanted classifieds on this site - there was one that sold recently in New Jersey, I think. Good luck.

[Rhinox]

How do I find importers? I've never worked with any and wouldn't know who I could trust.


P.S. Atlantis said not now but to try back in a couple months.

[Birger]

Then I start trying to source them and I find out how rare they are and realize I might never actually be able to find one

A LFS near me might actually have one. I'm going to go check at some point, but the pics I've seen of it it doesn't look ink-black like the one above. I'd spend a couple hundred dollars in a heartbeat for one that looks like that.

Keep in mind, there are hybrids that for whatever reason end up being sold with this name, a discounted fish being sold as granulosa may be suspect.
Take pictures with you or ask the seller for pictures and you could doublecheck an ID in the what is my catfish forum here at PC.

Birger

[amiidae]

How do I find importers? I've never worked with any and wouldn't know who I could trust.

Try here. --> http://www.oldworldexoticfish.com/

They stock them fm time to time.

[zipper]

Two of my grannies came from Atlantis. (almost 2 years ago) I've seen them on their list a few times prior to this so I'm sure they'll bring more in when they are available. Just got to be patient and vigilant. They dont get imported very often and when they do, it is usually just a few here and there.

As for the color of Amiidae's fish, I think it has to do with the color of the tank decor. I had one of mine on dark gray gravel and the fish got really dark like the one in the picture. Now that he is in a brighter tank with light colored sand, he is much more golden. This is just my personal observation, others may have different experiences with this fish.

[sidguppy]

I have never seen a golden granny

light grey, even slightly lilac, yes

but never brown or golden

are the fins all jetblack with white margins?

if not: you got a hybrid.

with the granny, there's no middle ground

even when teeny tiny all the fins except the adipose are jetblack with a white almost glowing margin on the back
even the tiny ventral fins have those colors

if the fins are lacking that, even if some are lacking that; you got a fake.

[zipper]

I think you and I have differing opinions in what "golden" is! Of the images in the Cat e log, I would contend that all the fish with the exception of Amiidae's are "golden" in color. That includes the pictures of your fish that you've posted on the web.

[sidguppy]

"Golden" to me is: like gold

as in: metallic yellow.


can't see this color anywhere on any granulosa in the Clog......

about the only Syno that vaguely look yellow sometimes are Synodontis schoutedeni and this odd partly yellow Synodontis

a 'golden' catfish that's readily available in the hobby in my opinion would be this

but i cannot for the life of me see anything with a golden color in

Synodontis granulosa

lilac/ maybe. brownish? yup. grey? aye.

but yellow and metallic, like gold?
definitely not

YMMV though; perhaps your eyes work differently than mine.

[zipper]

okay, you got me there. no 24k synos out there. How about "bronzish"? And what about multipunctata and grandiops? what would you consider their base color?

to the OP, sorry for taking this off topic.

And in my attempt to steer things back, I've been told from several different that grannies are rarely imported because:
1- they are solitary fish and need to be collected one at a time
2- they are found in deep water
3- areas where they are found have a lot of hippos (=super dangerous to collect)

Are any/ all these reasons true?

[Birger]

1- they are solitary fish and need to be collected one at a time
2- they are found in deep water
3- areas where they are found have a lot of hippos (=super dangerous to collect)

Are any/ all these reasons true?

1 and 2 I would say are true...number 3... hippos are rather dangerous but I would think you certainly should not come across a hippo out in a deepwater section of the lake.

Birger

the fish below is the best I could come up with for a golden syno...the least dominant female in the group

[sidguppy]

yup, they are found at depths of 40-60 meter

they're obviously faster than a scuba diver.
note that the divers at Tanganyika use simple scuba gear for going after these fish, but scuba gear isn't safe for use below 40 meters......
they don't have special gas mixes for safer deep diving at Tanganyika; that'd be far too expensive.

elsewhere in the world it's prohibited to go below that depth, you need a deepwater training to go below 22 meters and you aren't allowed to go below 40 at all.

so these guys in Tanganyika literally put their life on the lane while going after solitary agile catfish that are quite hard to catch.



that's what makes em pricey.

[Sandee]

I sold my 2 a few months ago (northern NJ coincidently). BTW, I had 3 - one passed away, but the other 2 got along very well. Had them for many years ...