New Arrivals - Glyptothorax siamensis

Martin S · Post by **Martin S** » 30 Dec 2011, 08:53

So my new fish have arrived, earlier in the day than expected, and although the water feels extremely cold, all three are lively and look good. I purchased them as (initially) , but they are almost certainly (according to Siluris and The.Dark.One) . G.siamensis has a smaller adult size of 3.7" as opposed to 9.8" for G.trilineatus, which if I hadn't just bought a 5' tank for them, would have been a much better size!

The larger specimens of the shipment that arrived at Pier have been fighting, but there does not appear to have been any such issues with the smaller specimens, which was why I chose the three smallest.
They are currently drip-acclimatising, and although I the pics from above in the bucket are below, I will get them into the photo tank later and get some (hopefully) better pictures to add to this thread.
As mentioned, I am collecting a new tank later today (60"x15"(W)x24"(H)), and these will take pride of place in there once it's up and running. I'm sorely tempted to set up a biotype for them, though (much to Racoll's disgust I'm sure

) am not really a fan of the larger danios we see over here, but then again, I'm only talking about the 'standard' giant danio - some of the other fish suitable, although harder to obtain, are much more appealing.
More pictures to follow later.

: Fish 1 of 3

: Fish 2 of 3 (Largest)

: Fish 3 of 3

Martin

Martin S · Post by **Martin S** » 30 Dec 2011, 12:15

I have already seen some biting and chasing from these three, so will need to keep my eye on them to make sure that no damage is being done. It does appear to be the largest of the 3 that is the main culprit.
I have added a powerhead to the tank to really up the flow (I was worried that the external wasn't enough) and although they spend most of their time in the tank corners, they are quite active.
A few (poor) pics of them in the photo tank:

And a short video:

Martin

The.Dark.One · Post by **The.Dark.One** » 30 Dec 2011, 12:50

Nice! Yes it was the biggest specimens that were fighting in the tank at Pier.

Stackdeck · Post by **Stackdeck** » 30 Dec 2011, 16:59

Can't wait to see the tank. I've had an empty river style tank in case I ever have the fortune of seeing a footlong Glypto.

Martin S · Post by **Martin S** » 30 Dec 2011, 17:24

Tank is here, just empty but a bit cleaner than when it arrived 2 hours ago! I now have to move my room around and put it in position before I can even think about filling it.
On the plus side, have been offered a shoal of Barilius, probably canarensis and dogarsinghi, so it could actually end up being a reasonable biotype!
I'll start a new thread in the tank talk section rather than clutter up this thread.

sojapat · Post by **sojapat** » 30 Dec 2011, 20:10

My recomended dither would be Opsarius pulchellus .
Check out Barillius too ,but the prettiest of these are not Thai.
Ps I had them up as Siamensis

..http://www.facebook.com/pieraquatics?ref=ts
Martin what was the temp on arrival not that it will matter with these fish.
Only if they are kept too hot but there was a heatpack in the box I packed them.

The.Dark.One · Post by **The.Dark.One** » 30 Dec 2011, 21:08

Yes it was me who threw trilineatus into the mix. Soz

BTW NEil, do you know where they were caught?

Martin S · Post by **Martin S** » 30 Dec 2011, 22:39

sojapat wrote:My recomended dither would be Opsarius pulchellus.

Nice!

sojapat wrote: Check out Barillius too ,but the prettiest of these are not Thai.

Yes, I might have a nice shoal of those planned, just need to get the tank set up first!

sojapat wrote: Ps I had them up as Siamensis ..http://www.facebook.com/pieraquatics?ref=ts

Yes, I saw that, though I wouldn't have argued at either!

sojapat wrote: Martin what was the temp on arrival not that it will matter with these fish.
Only if they are kept too hot but there was a heatpack in the box I packed them.

Not sure Neil but it did feel especially cold, though the fish were all swimming about in the bags and didn't look any worse for it. The heat pack was still warm, no complaints Neil, was just surprised at how cool the water seemed though very pleased they didn't mind. Thanks again for the cracking service - will definitely try and pay you a visit some time in 2012, and if you have any of the glyptos left, I might have to take them home with me

Martin

sojapat · Post by **sojapat** » 31 Dec 2011, 10:21

Hi Martin , Glad you like the fish, They do scrap a bit dont they.
I have some outstanding opsarius , I will try to upload a video of them showing off at each other ,they are very very nice fish .
Check out google images and look only at the pretty ones ..this is the correct fish ,there are some very drab examples on there.
Hope we see you later in the year .. I know you have a family but consider the CSG weekend convention ?

Martin S · Post by **Martin S** » 02 Jan 2012, 18:05

Thanks Neil.

Yes, Opsarius pulchellus are very nice, aren't they! They remind me of the European Perch (Perca fluviatilis), but with a more streamlined shape and better defined colours. Lovely fish - can you PM me (just for info at this time) the cost of these? As I said earlier, I have been offered a shoal of mixed Barilius, made up of (though IDs not 100% confirmed) B. canarensis, B. dogarsinghi and B.hukaungensis, which I think would all fit very well into the biotype I'm planning.

Anyway, all three seem to be doing very well, one has made it's home mostly clinging on to the front glass, in the strongest area of flow, the other two hide and occaisionally they all appear, rush around for a while and then nothing again. I've seen some feeding, they are not gorging themselves but seem happy and are all coloured up with the later atripe, and seemingly cream tips and rear edge of the caudal fin.
Here's a close up of the underside of one:

: Ventral view

Thanks again
Martin

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 02 Jan 2012, 21:52

Martin S wrote:I'm sorely tempted to set up a biotype for them, though (much to Racoll's disgust I'm sure

Ha ha, I'm appalled!

What I would advise though, is holding off on the cyprinids, at least for a while. The Opsarius/Barilius/Devario types can be so greedy, and it'll be a wonder if a single morsel of food makes it down to the catfishes. This may complicate their care, and if it were me, I would hold off for several months until they are settled in their new home and you "get to know them" a bit.

You may also want a species to clean up any uneaten food, and keep water quality high (any trace of ammonia from rotting, uneaten food will not be good for the ). Maybe something like a Schistura spp. would fit the bill, but nothing too competitive. Snails and shrimp would work nicely, but that would sadly be a biotope no-no.

sojapat · Post by **sojapat** » 03 Jan 2012, 00:39

Interesing point Rupert , It very much depends on Martin? I know shistura that will beat the catfish up ! I agree you would have to make sure food gets to them but it will be a dull tank 5 feet with 3x3" cats .. as you say get the hang of them but I think when settled these will hunt the food ,Garra flavatra and the opsarius will work well .Its up to Martin to control the feeding and make the decision on tankmates for the future but 3 catfish in this tank will be boring.

Post by **Silurus** » 03 Jan 2012, 01:03

racoll wrote:shrimp would work nicely, but that would sadly be a biotope no-no.

Freshwater shrimps can actually be found in the natural habitat of the Glyptothorax. The problem is that these tend to be the smaller atyids (Caridina), as opposed to the larger palaemonids (Macrobrachium); if you put Caridina in the tank, they'll just end up as catfish snacks.

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 03 Jan 2012, 01:20

Silurus wrote: Freshwater shrimps can actually be found in the natural habitat of the Glyptothorax.

Sure, sure, just not the ones in the trade (cherry, bee, Amano etc).

sojapat wrote:I know shistura that will beat the catfish up ! I agree you would have to make sure food gets to them but it will be a dull tank 5 feet with 3x3" cats .. as you say get the hang of them but I think when settled these will hunt the food ,Garra flavatra and the opsarius will work well .Its up to Martin to control the feeding and make the decision on tankmates for the future but 3 catfish in this tank will be boring. I-)

Schistura can be nasty, but I would have thought they'd be okay in a 5' tank. Might not be a risk worth taking though. Garra flavatra is a very nice idea, but sadly not biotope.

Yes, three small catfish in a tank that size wouldn't be making the most of it.

Just thinking out loud, but what about some of the small riverine Channa, like C. pulchra/ornatipinnis (biotope problems aside)? Would they bother the catfish?

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 03 Jan 2012, 08:55

why not go for the smaller Danio species?

the ones formerly known as Brachydanio. Zebra Barbs and the like.

several species do fine in unheated tanks, they're lively, peaceful and not nearly as competitive as the larger Opsarius or Devario types.

lastly: they're dead easy to get (available anywhere) and keep.

or you might try Tanichthys spp. same care.

a tank with small Danio's is anything but boring; after a few days you might be temped to toss some Ritalin in with the food

Martin S · Post by **Martin S** » 03 Jan 2012, 10:24

Thanks all, more to consider!

They appear to be feeding happily and become very active when food is added, and according to the current owner of the mixed Barilius, they tend to feed from midwater to surface, and the bottom feeding fish in the same tank all get more than their fair share, though do totally appreciate your thoughts about this - feeding both the greedy and active Barilius and ensuring the Glyptothorax also get fed has been my main concern from day 1.

racoll wrote:Yes, three small catfish in a tank that size wouldn't be making the most of it.

Setting up the tank would be easy, but it's not really worth setting up a 5' tank just for these three - as much as I love them, it's a tad overkill!
I could (as planned anyway) move on the remaining occupants of my 24", rescape to have a mixxed pebble base, add some smaller danios (as suggested by sid) and leave them there...

I don't have room to set up the 5' as well as the existing two tanks I have running - the 5' was always going to be a replacement for the 2', but am not wanting to increase the amount of effort to keep the larger tank if it only has three fish in!

Martin

Shovelnose · Post by **Shovelnose** » 03 Jan 2012, 13:14

Martin S wrote:Barilius, they tend to feed from midwater to surface, and the bottom feeding fish in the same tank all get more than their fair share

I find that these fish don't mind feeding from the bottom too. As long as there is food, they will eat it irrespective of levels IMO. I was extremely paranoid about adding cyprinid fish with the more delicate catfish but then realised that spot feeding really helps. I still use it for some of the fish with the Danio and Oreichthys I have currently.

Martin S · Post by **Martin S** » 03 Jan 2012, 13:21

Thanks Balaji
Do you spot-feed using something like a turkey baster? The flow is extremely strong in their current home and yet as soon as food goes in, they start to race about looking for it. Currently, the only competition is a pair of Diamond Tetra (Moenkhausia pittieria) and a shoal of .
Thanks again, I'm still considering my options! Would love to set up the 5' tank, but for me, the Glyptothorax willbe centre piece and don't want to chance losing them due to being outcompeted for food, and ultimately starving to death.
Martin

Shovelnose · Post by **Shovelnose** » 03 Jan 2012, 13:38

I switch of the filters during feeding time. The cyprinid fish get their food first. I then use a small brine shrimp net to drop the food directly into the 'lair' of the fish that need to be spot fed.

I would also suggest you look into the smaller cyprinid fish like Oreichthys crenuchoides and Puntius manipurensis. The latter especially. They don't grow big and are not as boisterous as Barilius or Danio/Devario and won't mind a bit of current as well. You might need fairly big schools to make them look prominent in the tank though.

Martin S · Post by **Martin S** » 03 Jan 2012, 14:21

Shovelnose wrote:I switch of the filters during feeding time. The cyprinid fish get their food first. I then use a small brine shrimp net to drop the food directly into the 'lair' of the fish that need to be spot fed.

Yes, that makes sense.

Shovelnose wrote:I would also suggest you look into the smaller cyprinid fish like Oreichthys crenuchoides and Puntius manipurensis. The latter especially. They don't grow big and are not as boisterous as Barilius or Danio/Devario and won't mind a bit of current as well. You might need fairly big schools to make them look prominent in the tank though.

They both look nice, but as you say, will need a largish shoal to make them prominent. Not sure how easy they are to find here in the UK?
Thanks again
Martin

Shovelnose · Post by **Shovelnose** » 03 Jan 2012, 14:29

Oreichthys crenuchoides should be easily procurable . Puntius manipurensis on the other hand, might be hard to find. You might have a wider range to chose from Danio/Devario.

Martin S · Post by **Martin S** » 03 Jan 2012, 14:44

Thanks Balaji.
If I was to be as correctly biotype as possible, what species of Danio/Devario would you find in such fast running water as these Glyptothorax?
Here in the UK, I regularly see the leopard/pearl/zebra danios, and celstial from time to time too, as well as, occaisionally the giant danio (Devario aequipinnatus?), but I'll be honest and don't take much notice as they are not a species of fish I have ever kept or had any interest in due to mostly always having kept (cat)fish from South America.
I need to decide whether to decline the offer of the mixed Barilius, and start the hunt for smaller Danio/Devario/Puntius, or stick with it, but give the Glyptothorax a month or so (was not intending to add the Barilius until early March anyway) to settle into their new environment.
I'm not going to be 100% anal about biotype, but would like to be pretty close if I'm going to try.
Thanks again
Martin

sojapat · Post by **sojapat** » 03 Jan 2012, 15:46

Hi Martin , I am not to good with computers but Matt one of my staff loaded a video on Youtube of the opsarius (which are in the same tank as the glyptothorax and are coming up from the bottom to take food from the danios (;
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=PierAquaticsWigan
I have the oreicthys (Drapefin barbs) as well as
Danio Choprae,Danio tinwini,Danio aesculapii,Danio megalayensis,Danio Kyathit,Puntius odessa,Puntius melanamphyx,Cyclocheilichthys janthochir,Cyclocheilichthys apogon. I can get the Puntius manipurensis just waitng for Ralf Britz to finnish collection and I can piggyback them on that.Lots of options for dithers and a lot of them are very attractive!
Good luck choosing!!!! Even puntius denisonii can go in if you are not to specific about biotope.

Martin S · Post by **Martin S** » 03 Jan 2012, 15:58

Thanks Neil - will check out the video when I get home (work blocks Youtube).

As I said, I don't want to be anal about it, but do want fish that will do well in the fast water environment that I aim to provide, and so be at least as close to biotype as I can, realistically.

Problem for me (being that I'm trying to do this upgrade on a small budget!) is that with the smaller fish such as the Danio/Devario, I'll need more to make a shoal that will stand out in a 5' tank, therefore increased cost!

I'm still considering my options!

Martin

Shovelnose · Post by **Shovelnose** » 03 Jan 2012, 16:29

Hey Martin,

Devario malabaricus (Malabar Danio),sometimes sold as D.aequipinnatus doesn't really stay small (5-6 "TL) and can really colour up given the right conditions. I am pretty sure these will fit a small budget too.I am currently keeping D.meghalayensis. These don't grow as big (around 3" TL) but will certainly suit your tank too. Danio margaritatus (Celestial Pearl Danio) are too small and you will need a huge shoal for a 5 foot tank. I haven't kept any other Danio spp..

If you are looking at Puntius, I would suggest P.fasciatus (Melon Barb) and P.sahyadriensis (Maharaja Barb - stunning fish!!!) as a possibility. These again, really colour up and might fit a small budget too. I have very little experience with non India cyprinid fish so I really can't choose from Neil's extensive and impressive list.

Edit : The fish I mention are from a similar habitat and not the same biotope.

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 03 Jan 2012, 23:17

sojapat wrote:Danio Choprae,Danio tinwini,Danio aesculapii,Danio Kyathit,

I think of all the suggestions so far, these are the best. Danio choprae in particular would be ideal, as it's pretty, cheap and easily available. Danio sp. "Hikari" are stunning too, but might be harder to find. Some of the gentler barbs mentioned would also be good.

Pics from http://www.seriouslyfish.com/.

Danio choprae

Danio sp. "Hikari"

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 04 Jan 2012, 00:10

Looks like seriouslyfish don't like sharing images... They are pretty fish tho'.

http://www.seriouslyfish.com/profile.ph ... rae&id=950
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/profile.ph ... 7hikari%27[%2Fpl]&id=1346

--
Mats

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 04 Jan 2012, 00:16

Looks like seriouslyfish don't like sharing images...

The images work fine on my machine.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 04 Jan 2012, 00:22

racoll wrote:
Looks like seriouslyfish don't like sharing images...
The images work fine on my machine.

Yes, and once I'd loaded one of the pictures on my machine, it shows up in your post too. That's because the browser finds it in the cache, and doesn't ask for it from SF. And now that I've viewed both species pages, I see both images.

--
Mats

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 04 Jan 2012, 01:26

Gotcha! Makes sense.