Breeding Otocinclus cocama (+ spawning)

[unissuh]

Hi all, been lurking on this board for a while now but never posted before. Just had some fry hatch out and wanted to share some pictures of Otocinclus breeding since I don't see many around considering how many people keep them!

My first spawn a bit more than 6 months ago - Otocinclus vestitus


The old magnifying glass camera trick


Mum & dad


About 10 days old


Some of the juveniles I raised


About a month ago I acquired some Otocinclus cocama and evicted the Otocinclus vestitus from the tank to give these a go.


A lot bigger than the other Otocinclus I've seen or kept


And just recently (OK this is a bad picture)


Couple of just hatched O. cocama fry flopping around on the substrate


Now comes the hard bit - raising the fry!

[Mike_Noren]

Congratulations! That's the first breeding of cocama that I've seen!

As an aside your vestitus are probably not really vestitus. Most fish sold under the name "vestitus" or "affinis" are either vittatus, hoppei, or macrospilus.

[MatsP]

Congratulations, and thanks for sharing the pictures! Good luck with raising the fry!

--
Mats

[unissuh]

Cheers guys!

As an aside your vestitus are probably not really vestitus. Most fish sold under the name "vestitus" or "affinis" are either vittatus, hoppei, or macrospilus.

Which one do you think it looks like? Sorry, it's probably not the greatest picture showing the adults. I'd take another but I put the bloody things into a blackwater 2' tank "temporarily"...I'm lucky if I can see them now yet alone take a picture or figure out how many are left.

They've got two caudal "W"s (I think), brown dorsal coloration meets the black stripe with no white inbetween and black stripe runs to the end of the caudal fin with a relatively small blotch. I had the impression that the lack of white border rules out vittatus and affinis, unbroken stripe with only small black blotch ruled out macrospilus and hoppei.

[Mike_Noren]

It looks like vittatus. You should however know that it's difficult to tell vestitus from vittatus, but odds are hugely in favor of your fish being vittatus.

[James0816]

Awesome indeed! Congrats!!

How bout posting up some tank parms if you don't mind?

[unissuh]

Hi James, hope your cocama project gets back up and running soon! Have been following your threads for a while.

Water is at about 25C, pH 6.6, 2 dGH, <1 dKH, 1 ppm PO4, 10 ppm NO3 for the last few days (presumably while they spawned). Tank is very tiny - 40 cm by 23 cm by 25 cm, and holds 4 O. cocama. Stormy weather, on average low pressure for the last 4-5 days.

It looks like vittatus. You should however know that it's difficult to tell vestitus from vittatus, but odds are hugely in favor of your fish being vittatus.

So the lack of a white band above the lateral black stripe does not rule out vittatus like some web articles suggest? I found a topic where you've said the only way to tell would be examining for pores along the lateral line by microscopy. Wish I'd asked to see if the shop knew the locality where these fish came from a year ago!

[Mike_Noren]

So the lack of a white band above the lateral black stripe does not rule out vittatus like some web articles suggest?

No it's not a diagnostic character (as far as I know). O. vittatus has an implausibly huge distribution, from Venezuela to Argentina, and is probably in reality several similar species, so it's not odd that there is a fair amount of variation between "vittatus" from different areas.

Disclaimer: I am not an expert on Otocinclus, and I've never seen a confirmed O. vestitus, so take my remarks for what they're worth.

[James0816]

Hi James, hope your cocama project gets back up and running soon! Have been following your threads for a while.

Thanks. I'm looking to get another group of Cocama's in next month hopefully. I just purchased a different group of fishies that will be arriving today. However, breeding this group will be an after thought at the moment.

[unissuh]

Managed to capture a spawn on camera today!! Turns out the two that were spawning were the other two in the tank that I'd ignored - the 2nd largest female and the "unknown"...the other one I was sure was a male plus the largest female didn't take part at all.

The culprits, female:


male:


Female leads, male follows:


Cleaning the underside of the leaves together (mostly the female):


Mating/egg laying (T-position):


But wait, theres a movie too!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3oW-OQ9XeQ

Not sure how many eggs there are in total, but it looks like quite a few, definitely more than last time.

[unissuh]

Just some fry pictures:

Day 3 (6 mm):


Day 4 (side):


Day 5 (6 mm):


Day 12 (~8 mm):


Day 12 (side):


Day 21 (~10 mm):


Day 26 (~12 mm):


Day 26 (side):

[Mike_Noren]

Those are some very nice photos. Please consider submitting a selection to the Cat-eLog.

[Jools]

Those are some very nice photos. Please consider submitting a selection to the Cat-eLog.

I'll second that, on both counts!

Cheers,

Jools

[nvcichlids]

congrats on the spawn, would it be possible to get a full tank shot? I would like to see the setup

[Bwhiskered]

I wish you the best of luck breeding the zebra ottos. I bought 5 from a LFS and one of them lived almost a week. The stock of anything from that store has a poor survival rate.

[unissuh]

Thanks guys.

congrats on the spawn, would it be possible to get a full tank shot? I would like to see the setup

Here you go, nothing special:

[nvcichlids]

so the tank is about 12" long?

[unissuh]

Close, 40 cm by 23 cm by 25 cm - about 20 L.

[racoll]

Nice one! What is the feeding regime?

[andywg]

That is fantastic news! well done. Will be having another try with these once I get a new set-up later next year. Can you tell me what your feeding regime is, water changes, or anything you consider may be linked to triggering the spawning?In particular: How do you light your tank and how long are the lights left on?Does it get any periods of natural light? On reflection with my attemps,I think a group intruduced into a small shallow tank covered with floating plants might help with oto's.

[unissuh]

Feeding is NLS wafer and nori mostly, plus zucchini occasionally. Very little natural light, the tank gets 12 hours under a 8w T5HE bulb. Water changes usually when I feel like it, usually once a week, sometimes every 2 weeks.

Had a week of stormy weather just when thy spawned and I reckon that was the trigger, it wasn't a water change or temperature swing. More difficult to condition these to spawning condition than the other Otociclus that I had.

Hope that helps.

[nnpnnp]

Congrats on spawn !
Your tank is nice. Lush green !
Regards
Nitin

[joe323]

I noticed you have a powerhead in there beside the heater. Do the cocama prefer a significantly higher amount of water flow than the vittatus?

[The.Dark.One]

Very well done for spawning both species AND providing pictures and movies

Cracking set-up you have there.

I agree with Mike that they look like vittatus. This is the only fish I have seen that matches vestitus:

http://www.scotcat.com/thedarkone/loric ... stitus.jpg
http://www.scotcat.com/thedarkone/loric ... titus2.jpg
http://www.scotcat.com/thedarkone/loric ... titus3.jpg

[apistomaster]

It is an accomplishment to be proud of to be perhaps the first to breed Otocinclus cocama.
I have only tried keeping them once. I bought ten and they were all dead within three weeks.
It's difficult to obtain specimens already in decent condition.
It is tempting to try again.
I want to try breeding the little fish currently called Parotocinclus cf. eppelyi also being sold as Parotocinclus sp. Nanay Eanea.
When I had a large group for two years I frequently saw courtship in the form of the small males chasing one larger female and presenting to her in the same "T" formation as your Otocinclus and as seen among Corydoras.

[unissuh]

Thanks guys. In all fairness though, don't think I'm the first to do it - have seen a couple of other threads on the interweb and one with a pretty convincing picture of fry.

Have not had much luck rearing them though - shortly after approx 4 weeks they all started vanishing. Not sure why, did exactly the same thing as the vittatus & that worked perfectly. Will update if I ever get any further than that.

I noticed you have a powerhead in there beside the heater. Do the cocama prefer a significantly higher amount of water flow than the vittatus?

It's the filter, not a powerhead - I run small internal power filters instead of externals. Have not really noticed much difference re:flow requirement.

[joe323]

Any news?

[apistomaster]

All Otocinclus like having some current.