29 gal. tank stocking suggestions

[AttackFish]

I don't mean to intrude.. but I've also got questions on stocking.
I can make another topic for my questions if need be.

Anyways,
I've got a 30''x12" LxW tank, and I'm trying to decide how to stock it.
The tank will be planted pretty thick with java fern.
I would like a few cories, but I was also thinking of adding something like a Amblydoras nauticus, or Agamyxis pectinifrons along with the cories. As for other stock, I was thinking Crenicichla Sp. Belly Crawler, or some other small to medium cichlid(s) that would provide mid water movement.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. :]

[sidguppy]

don't add the Bellycrawler!

not with corydoras or those doradids....it'll be a disaster

I'll explain:
first: biotope. the Crenicichla bellycrawler is a rheophile cichlid. it's a poor swimmer adapted to a ton of current and loads of oxygen.
fish like these require that the tank is suited to their needs.
strong powerheads, pebbles and larger rounded rocks are best to build a tank for these.

second: the cory's and doradids are from a more gentle biotope where sand, leaves, branches and even live plants are part of the furniture.
less current and more space to dwell.

third: the crenicichla is strongly territorial. not just to speciesmembers (all Crenicichla are notoriously hard to pair up), but because this is such a poor swimmer it can and will attack slow bottomdwelling fish.

a cichlid that fits in with Corydoras has to be a gentle species.
if you like small cichlids than Laetacara curviceps (old name Aequidens curviceps), Cleithracara maronii (Keyhole Cichlid), Microgeophagus ramirezi (Rams), Dicrossus spp, Mesonauta spp and the like are very good matches.

Corydoras fare bad when combined with territorial species, for example almost all combinations with Apistogramma and Corydoras sooner or later will end up with dead Corydoras.

the doradids are a bit more tough; but when combined with territorial fishes they'll turn very nocturnal and you will not enjoy fish you will never see....


are there catfish and other fish suitable for the rheophile tank with the Bellycrawler?
yes!
there's a long list of nice L numbers that come from the same biotope and also: L numers have a lot more character than Cory's and cope with cichlid behavior better than Corydoras.
some examples: Chaetostoma spp, Baryancistrus Gold Nugget, Hypancistrus zebra, to name a few
as for characins: Parodon affinis, Leporellus spp, Metynnis, Astyanax etc are good matches with the Crenicichla Bellycrawler.

[AttackFish]

Fantastic post!
Thank you for the help.
I had considered rams, as one of my local shops stocks them.
I also like the curviceps, and maronii as well and I'm sure I've seen them locally.
So, the tank stocked with a pair of one of the smaller cichlid species listed, and 3-5 cories would be fine?

[sidguppy]

taking it from the start, cause it's getting confusing:

this is a 5 foot tank that holds 400 liters?

then there's a lot of room, much more than needed for a single cichlid pair and a small group of Corydoras.

if you want a low stocked community tank, you can go for 2 pairs of mellow cichlids, or 1 pair and a small group.

nicely behaved pairbonders:
Laetacara curviceps or other Laetacara spp
Cleithracara maronii
Microgeophagus ramirezi
Nannacara anomala
Guianacara spp

some smaller South American cichlids can be kept as groups, think about 6-8 fish
Biotodoma spp
Microgeophagus altispinosa

if you like 2 species don't pick 2 of a single genus.
for example a pasir of curviceps and some Biotodoma's will be fine, but Laetacara curviceps and Laetacara dorsigerus together will produce hybrids.

Catfish:
you can easily fit 10-15 Corydoras in there.
a single species in such a group looks great, but if you like to combine a group of 6-8 and another one of similar size is no problem
don't make the mistake of setting up a "stamp collection" of Corydoras species.
and ity's nice if they don't look alike.
for example Corydoras sterbai and Corydoras metae are nicely contrasted, but Corydoras sterbai and Corydoras trilineatus look too much alike.

there's plenty of room for some smaller Loricariid (large ones tend to stress Corydoras).
depending on tankfurniture you can add plantcleaning species or woodchewers or omnivores.

plant cleaners: Hypoptopoma, otocinclus and Farlowella are all suitable.
pick a single species and keep in a small group (4-5), unless you like Otocinclus, these should be kept in a shoal of at least 8 or so; they do best when kept in numbers

on the sand omnivore sandchewers like Rineloricaria are great. don't combine those with earth eaters like Guianacara, but they can be kept with any other cichlid mentioned here.
why not with Guianacara? it's a food isse.
the Guianacara's will leave the Loricaria's unharmed, but they outcompete them for food.

another great suckermouth for such a tank is the common Sturisoma. it's also a fairly good algae eater.

if you like Ancistrinae and you don't mind them chewing wood, Panaque maccus or a similar sized "Mini Panaque" is a nice choice.
there's a whole list of small Hypancistrus spp that fit in there.
as in Corydoras: it's much nicer to pick 1 species of L number and keep it as 2 pairs or so than it is to collect em all Pokemon-style
;)

and then there are Characins.
lots and lots of em

we have gentle top swimmers like Copella arnoldi, Carnegiella spp and Boehlkea fredcochoi;
there are manmy midrange dwellers like Aphyocharax spp, Hemigrammus spp, Nannostomus and Nannobrycon
and some like to swim in the lower part of the tank

go easy on the latter, cause that's where your cichlids and Corydoras hang out too.
Hyphessobrycon spp, Gymnocorymbus spp, Moenkhausia spp etc are all nice fish.

with Characins again: 1 or 2 species, preferable contrasting, is better than a lot.
a slim species combined with a high build species look great; but a collection of different "pencl fish" does not.

it's all a matter of taste ofcourse!


just as an example what I could do with this tank:

substrate:
fine riversand with a few fistsized rounded pebbles, just a few, no stacks anywhere.

furniture:
finely branched bogwood or beechroots in the back and corners; some larger pieces of bogwood near the back and on the sand as hiding places for catfish

plants:
some medium sized Echinodorus amazonicus planted here and there; a single red leafed Echinodorus as a contrast, a few bushes of Heteranthera zosterifolia, some Pistia stratoides as floating vegetation and Hydrocleis nyphoides near the sides of the tank.

cichlids:
1 pair of Laetacara dorsigera or curviceps
1 group of 6-7 Microgeophagus altipinosa

characins:
a large shoal of Aphyocharax rubripinnis (at least 15, more is better); and a smaller group of Copella srnoldi; 3 males, 4-5 females

catfish:
8 Corydoras metae and 7 Corydoras robinae

5 Hypoptopoma gulara or a similar species

1 male and 2 females of Panaque LDA King Tiger

5 Centromuchlus perugiae

;)

[Marc van Arc]

taking it from the start, cause it's getting confusing:

this is a 5 foot tank that holds 400 liters?

No, afaics.
These are 2 different postings with the same question.
I could do with a more experienced splitter than myself.
Mats, could you do this?
I think Attackfish needs a new thread.

[MatsP]

Post split. I'm not entirely sure what should be done with the "ah, a 5ft 400 liter tank could have this stock" - it doesn't really belong in either thread - it's in this one for now... If anyone thinks it should go in the other thread, let me know...

--
Mats

[Marc van Arc]

Post split. I'm not entirely sure what should be done with the "ah, a 5ft 400 liter tank could have this stock" - it doesn't really belong in either thread - it's in this one for now... If anyone thinks it should go in the other thread, let me know...

Alex' reaction is to AttackFish, but he doesn't have the 400 ltr tank (that's Corygal, the initial poster). Alex' posting towards AttackFish wrt stock is therefore miscalculated (400 ltr as opposed to the available 29 gallons).
In his posting Alex already said: "it's a bit confusing", which shows.
Too bad for it's a very good reply.

[MatsP]

Yes. And I'm torn between leaving it in the 5ft/400ltr thread, or here...

--
Mats

[sidguppy]

this piece of moderating made both of my elaborate replies completely redundant and faulty

I'm not very happy with it!
Mats, you messed up my contribution.

best cut n paste it in the appropriate topic or I have to delete the entire text;
it doesn't fit in here anymore......

[Marc van Arc]

Yes. And I'm torn between leaving it in the 5ft/400ltr thread, or here...

There's no need to be torn, as Alex's reaction is towards AttackFish and not towards CoryGal. So the reply should remain here in this thread.
But as said before, the stocking suggestion is too high as Alex mistakenly thought the 400 ltr tank belonged to AttackFish.

[Marc van Arc]

this piece of moderating made both of my elaborate replies completely redundant and faulty

I'm not very happy with it!
Mats, you messed up my contribution.

best cut n paste it in the appropriate topic or I have to delete the entire text;
it doesn't fit in here anymore......

I don't think Mats is to blame here, but the fact that AttackFish posted in CoryGal's topic. I'm aware of the fact that he (AF) asked if he had to make a seperate topic; I should have done something with that instead of letting it go and thus causing misunderstandings.

[AttackFish]

Yes, I should have posted another thread.
But the fact there was already a stocking suggestions thread, I thought it would be easier that way. No need to argue, it's my fault.

I've decided which direction to take the tank, so it's fine.
The tank is 30''x12'' LxW.
I will be doing a pair of Keyhole cichlids(Cleithracara maronii)
A few peppered cories as they're always available at my local shop.
And a few Red phantom tetras(Hyphessobrycon sweglesi)
Possibly might just do the cories and the cichlids without the tetras since this is a small tank.

[AttackFish]

Just another quick question..
A long with the above stock, I was considering adding a common bristlenose as I have always liked them.

Another species I have looked at is Panaque maccus and instead of the Red phantom tetras, using Silver hatched tetras which from what I read are found in the same area as maccus are. I've read the information on Planet Catfish, and was wondering if there is anything special I should know about them?

[MatsP]

Common bristlenose is easy to keep and should be fine in that tank. May be a problem that it tries to steal the eggs if the keyholes decide to breed, but that's about it.

The clown pleco

Panaque maccus

is in my experience easy to keep, not at all fussy about water conditions, as long as it's reasonably good water quality (zero ammonia, nitrite and low nitrate). It won't eat (much) algae, and is normally quite secretive - and they eat wood, with the resulting large amount of "sawdust" and frequent filter-cleaning.

Do you mean "Silver/Common hatchet" Gasteropelecus sternicla? As long as you have a good cover on the tank, you'll probably be fine - they tend to jump...

--
Mats

[AttackFish]

Bristlenose sounds better for this tank.

Maybe set up another tank for clown plecos eventually.

Thank you for the information.

[PanzerFodder]

I have a 37G tank (same footprint as yours, just taller) and have some C.Sterba and C.Metae, and also one bristlenose pleco as well, they all seem to get along with no problems or fighting.

I also keep one pr of adult Bolivian rams in this tank and they seem to be very good with the corys and never harmed them in anyway even when they had fry hatching, any corys that came close were just escorted away without being harmed.

I have heard that Key Hole cichlids can be a bit nasty when they are breeding, but I have never owned any of these to say for certain that that is true.

also have a look at getting a couple of Lemon Tetras if you want, they do tend to look a bit drab in the stores but once you get them settled into a tank with a few live plants they color up very nicely ;)

BTW: This is my pr of Bolivians, color up nicely when they are fully grown if you want to find out anything about them! just ask, or send me a PM

[MatsP]

They Bolivian rams are lovely.

--
Mats

[PanzerFodder]

They Bolivian rams are lovely.

--
Mats

Thank's Mat, yes they are, but you have to be carefull when buying them because the fish stores are full of very poor Quality Asian bred fish .