Preventing injury

[scrup]

I recently acquired a Pimelodus Pantaneiro, and it seems no matter what I do it will not stop injuring itself. It has managed to gash both sides open with its pectoral fins, and has numerous scrapes from running into rockwork and driftwood.

It is in a 125G lightly stocked with some other fish of uneatable size- 4 bala sharks, some kribs, some Ancistrus, and a hybrid syno. None of the other fish seem to bother it, its only when I walk near the tank, it goes bananas. I setup caves that are completely cut off, no way for it to see me when I am moving around, but it won't go into them. I tried taking out all the rock work (lace rock) and it got a nice burn from trying to get behind the heater, and still smashes itself into the walls of the tank. I put the rockwork back in, setup lots of caves for him, and added lots of sections of 3" pvc pipe, he still won't go into them. Just sits in the corner and when I walk into the fish room, goes berserk.

I am totally at a loss as to what to do with this guy. You think he just needs more cave options? I am probably going to have to move him to a smaller tank to help treat those wounds on his sides, he got himself good this time. Should I just keep a towel over the tank? I've never had a fish be this neurotic before. Could it be the bala sharks are stressing him out? The only other tank I have at the moment is a Shell dweller setup and aside from the fact he would eat everything, the hard water is not what I would call ideal for a SA catfish.

In case you need it-

1. Water parameters
a) Temp- steady 76.
b) pH- 7.2
c) GH unknown
d) KH unknown
e) Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite, levels. 0ammo, 0nitrite, @20ppm nitrate before a water change
f) Water change frequency- 40% weekly

2. Tank set up -125G with lace rock and driftwood, hornwort, duckweed, and water lettuce
a) Size. 125g
b) Substrate. sand and peagravel mix
c) Filtration. 2 large HOB filters and a custom made canister filter.
d) Furnishings. driftwood, lace rock, PVC caves
e) Other tank mates. 4 Bala sharks, syno hybrid, 6 kribs, 3 ancistrus
f) How long has it been set-up? Moved it to a new house about 2 months ago. Filter media has been running for about 2 years.
g) When was the last new fish added? 3 weeks ago
h) Foods used and frequency? flakes, pellets, algae tabs. Every other day.

[Shane]

Just a quick question. Are you sure you have

Pimelodus pantaneiro

we do not even have a photo of a live one in the cat-elog. Can you post a pic of the fish?
-Shane

[scrup]

I will see if I can get a pic tonight. No promises on that, as I seem to have lost my camera charger. I could be wrong on the ID. If it is that rare in the trade I probably am mistaken, I think it was just the closest match I could find. Got it from a friend who got it from craigslist, he thought it was a pictus, but pictus don't get that big.

[scrup]

No luck on the camera, but I managed to get some crappy phone pics. Sorry, the best I can do until we get around to unpacking the rest of the house.





got some other shots, waiting on them to email from my BB.

Also, I agree, not the catfish I thought it was. Will try and get an ID one day, for now I am just worried about how to make him stop trying to shish-kebob himself.


Heres the rest of them.

[scrup]

And a headon shot if it helps.

[redfan]

Hi you have the temp at 76F is this a little too cool? I would say 77F as a min for tropical fish.

Also, if it's only skittish when your walking past the tank, have you looked at why that is? are you walking past the side of the tank when entering the room? Or is it literally when approaching the tank?

if it's the side then maybe you could add some backing on that side to blinker the fish, if its skittish when your generally approaching the tank then it would suggest it does not feel safe. How long exactly have you had the fish? It could literally be a case of stress and the fish needs time to adjust. You got it from a friend whom obtained it via the web so that would make some sense given its obviously been shipped possibly more than a fish generally would be.

I would personally look at increasing front tank cover (plants) or maybe if your using caves positioning them so the opening is at the back of the tank (therefore he cannot see you walking around). Both these option should only need to be done temporarily then gradually adjust it back to normal slowly over time.

Hope it helps

[scrup]

After losing 3/4 of my tangs to a columnaris outbreak I do my best to keep temps just slightly above 76. Seems to work just fine for all of them, and helps. The temps actually stay a little above thanks to the basements ambient temp, but the heaters never let it drop below.

[MatsP]

If (and that's a big IF) the species is what was first suggested, low temperature is probably not a bad idea. However, I suspect it's

Pimelodus blochi

, which is a much more common species in the trade. I can't say for sure, as I haven't looked up the differences between the species, so it's just a "one is very rare, the other common, and the fish looks like the common one".

I'll see if I can dig out some papers later on.

--
Mats

[scrup]

Looks like you are spot on with that. Thank you. I think I may have looked at the juvy pictures and thought "No....thats not it"

Its been one of those weeks.

Ah, and here we go, a fitting description-

"...Swims darts wildly when nervous. Needs Prozac regularly but has no drug insurance..."

Yep, thats the fish.

[sidguppy]

the furniture is all wrong; this fish should be kept in a tank with sand as substrate and wood as furniture

if any rocks must be used; rounded pebbles is the way to go

now it's in a "malawi tank" sort of, and yes; that'll damage it.

also: the fact that you don't see it fighting with others will not say it doesn't happen
most catfish antics finds place in pitch darkness and i think it's a fair chance the hybrid Syno will attack it
hybrid Syno's are well known for their aggressive nasty behavior.

lastly: probably the water is all wrong; judging by the massive algae growth the water is polluted or at least very rich in nitrates.

a Syno, esp a hybrid one, can handle this a lot better than a wildcaught pimelodus

and a small scratch quickly developes into a nasty pink and white infection when the water is filthy.

[Shane]

Do you have, or could you set up a hospital/quarantine tank for this fish? The placement of the wounds (all near the hard fin rays) tend to support the theory that this fish is on the losing end of nightly fights. Purely mechanical damage from running into the walls would be on the snout.
My best guess is that the fish is wounded and living under constant threat of attack and this is behind the "fright behavior" you are witnessing.
That wound below the pectoral is particularly deep and nasty and alone warrants placement in a hospital tank for observation and possible treatment.

For what it is worth, I think your temp is just fine.

-Shane

[scrup]

Thank you for the replies!

I will indeed QT it while it heals up. I'll just throw a towel over it or move one of my tanks into the filter room, not much traffic in there.

The wounds on its sides are from its own pectoral fins. I witnessed him doing it the first few times. The opposite side actually has quite a few abrasions from him just ramming into objects in the tank. By the time he is healed up I will hopefully have setup my Brevis tank, so the syno will have himself a good home. I'll replace the lace rock with some rocks I have sitting around, since the Kribs will also hopefully be relocated by then. Normally I do not mix fish so haphazardly, but we recently moved, and I found out my 8' tank doesn't fit in the basement:((, and I am not comfortable enough setting it up anywhere else in the house until I get some bracing put in. Hoping to get that accomplished sometime this month! That paired with a few other problems led to a pretty challenging last few months.

judging by the massive algae growth the water is polluted or at least very rich in nitrates.
...
and a small scratch quickly developes into a nasty pink and white infection when the water is filthy.

A small area of green spot algae is hardly what I consider massive algae growth. I appreciate the concern, but the water is fine I assure you. It is neither polluted or high in nitrates, nor is it "filthy". Most of that green spot algae is leftover from when it WAS a Mbuna tank. Just haven't gotten around to adding the "polish" to the tanks if you will. More focused on getting them all off the floor at this point.

Anyone ever use neosporin on catfish? Had luck with it on goldfish, but not sure how it would take on scaleless fish.

Thanks again for all the help.

[MatsP]

The rocks will make the water hard, and whilst these fish are possibly able to adopt to a hard water setup, they will be happier in soft water. I don't know what the water is like in Colorado, I know in neighbouring(ish) states such as Nevada, Arizona, Texas and California, the water tends to be hard (I say tends to, because I don't know if the water in ALL parts of those states is hard). It's obviously not helpful to have hard water and add calciferous rock that makes the water even harder....

--
Mats

[scrup]

The water here is fairly neutral. As much as I would have liked the lace rock to harden the water, it has not had much of an impact. Not all rock hardens water. I ended up having to supplement my rift lake tanks with some goofy diy aragonite/crushed coral reactors. A spare pump, plastic coffee cans, pvc and some fiberglass mesh. I get a little crazy with it some times. Some examples-




but the results tend to speak for themselves.



I like to think I know somewhat what I am doing.

And yes, the Hemichromis were only in the tank temporarily.

[scrup]

ok, got him in QT with a cocktail of meds. Heres hoping!

Thanks again for all the help.

[Viktor Jarikov]

Hey! Welcome to the forum and I must say you are a good poster. Thorough. Caring. Balanced. How is the lil' guy? It sure looks like the common P. blochii. I have had up to 7 of them at one time.

Your tanks are nice.

"...Swims darts wildly when nervous. Needs Prozac regularly but has no drug insurance..."

You quoted me - that was when I got my first indoor cat - P. blochii lovingly named "Cranky" (~7" TL). He would indeed sometimes injure himself but mostly in the form of scratches on the snout, just like Shane pointed out. And even that was in a smallish 27 gal hex tank. They are nice fish with a lot of character and they appreciate company of each other it seems.

After that I acquired 5-6 more blochiis but never have had any problem with darting and injuries.

The wounds look nasty indeed and self-inflicted, maybe, don't know. Maybe Shane would elaborate why he thinks the deep wound near the end of his right-hand-side pectorial is a sign of fighting. I'd like to understand that too.

Anyhow, good luck. They are strong cats and there is still a good chance he will make it.