Pseudohemiodon apithanos breeding

[NielsV]

Home of the apithanos

Male whit a bunch of eggs

Two females

Fry of two weeks and the smallest are 1 day old.

Around two months

At this moment i have 9 young apithanos.

The dark one is the male. He buried himself to protect the eggs of other fish, in this case a female apithanos.


Later more information. About the fishes, parameters, eggs......

[Narwhal72]

Fantastic spawning! Really beautiful fish.

What do you feed the fry?

Andy

[Erlend D Bertelsen]

Congratulations.

This is an amazing fish, and a very interesting family.
I see you holding the fish with other fishes, and I am therefore interested in knowing how you bread them. I've got egg on my group of Pseudohemiodon apithanos, but I have yet not hatched the eggs. When the male keep the eggs himself, they will disappear after a while. And when I take out the eggs, I struggle with the fungus.
So your approach would be of great interest.

E

[Jools]

First of all, great pics! This is good to see a spawning of this species.

I had the same problem with

Pseudohemiodon sp`marbled`

. Basically, if the male "detaches" then something eats the eggs. So, either use a bigger tank or switch off the lights and cover the tank with a black towel for two weeks (tiptoeing might also help!). Maybe also not feeding too.

I've managed to hatch egg clutches without the male, it is easier to do the longer you keep the males keeps the eggs. If within the eggs you can see eyes and wriggling then you are nearly there.

The hatching container has to be sterile and should be replaced with a sterile one very 4 or so days. I also found cherry shrimp beneficial in the nursery.

But, as I say, the real trick is to get the male to stay on the eggs.

Jools

[apistomaster]

Very cool. I would try Jools' advice. These or the Pseudohemiodon sp Marbled are on my "to breed" list someday, too.

[Norman]

Hi,

But, as I say, the real trick is to get the male to stay on the eggs.

Often that is depending on the male!
Some males clips the clutch very strongly with their lower lips. So even if you try to take the clutch away from them, catching the male with the hand they never would leave the clutch by choice.
On the opposite there are some males which respond to least incident and leave the clutch. If that happens at the first 5 days, a successful incubation of the clutch is nearly unpossible.

Because I'd like to get all fry of a clutch, I always take the clutch away from the male between the 12th and 13th day. At this time the hatching of the fry is near. Unfortunately you have to inherit the males job helping the fry hatching.
You can try biting the eggs, but I think thats not very tasty.
Instead of that you can take a needle or tweezers and tear the egg integuments open. Take a look for the fry, and if it is well developed and has a need for movement you can open all the other eggs of the clutch. Unfortunately this procedure is necessary, otherwise the fry will die inside the integuments.
The first times doing this you surly will demage one or two frys of a clutch. But with some routine you will manually hatch 100% of the developed eggs.

so long
Norman

[apistomaster]

There may be another possible way to induce hatching.
Timing is critical. I mean down to the last few hours. I found that when I was raising Sturisoma that if I timed it just right I could slide the eggs off the glass with a razor blade and siphon them through a 3/8 inch inside diameter tubing into a breeding net placed in a bucket with a little water. I think the reduction of water pressure inside the siphon helped the fry burst through the egg membrane. The mechanical force of being dumped out of the tube into the container helped others break free. FWIW.

It just occurred to me that gentle agitation in a small sealed jar might help many fry break free. For those that don't maybe try it again awhile later. It is a variation of an old trick Killiefish breeders use.

[racoll]

I found that rubbing the egg mass gently with my fingers did the trick, but yes, timing is critical.

If they were ready, they would just pop out with no effort.

[NielsV]

Fantastic spawning! Really beautiful fish.

What do you feed the fry?

Andy

The first few weeks i start whit:
O.S.I Spirulina flakes
O.S.I Shrimp pallets
Sera viformo

Around 4 weeks i start whit some frozen food like:
artemia
shrimp mixed whit peas
black mosquito larvae
Lobster eggs

Do not feed some food like Sera vipagran to young apithanos. They can't get there hands off it and they eat so much till they die! Because it creates a constipation in their stomach.

[NielsV]

Congratulations.

This is an amazing fish, and a very interesting family.
I see you holding the fish with other fishes, and I am therefore interested in knowing how you bread them. I've got egg on my group of Pseudohemiodon apithanos, but I have yet not hatched the eggs. When the male keep the eggs himself, they will disappear after a while. And when I take out the eggs, I struggle with the fungus.
So your approach would be of great interest.

E

I'm very glad whit my male. He is very good, he did it right the first time they spawn. Unfortunately i lost a lot of eggs/young apithanos in the beginning, through my own fault.
Sometings that happens:
The temperature in the tank gets to hot in summermonths.
Let the light burning for 24 hour.
Wrong type off food.
Took the bunch off eggs to early from the fish.
Coarse gravel

The last time i got the best results. I take the eggs when i saw a tail came trough the scale. I was just in time. Once the eggs were in the net i saw six young apithanos swimming . I put the young apithanos and the rest of the eggs in a basket and it took two days more until all the eggs were hatched. Totally it took fourteen to fifteen days before all eggs were hatched.

Parameters:
Ph 6.7
Kh 1
Gh 2
No2 0
No3 0
EC 100
Temp 26º/27º

[NielsV]

Looking for some food whit a clutch of eggs

[Taratron]

Awesome pics and thread! I've always wondered why we don't see more captive bred whiptails and other loris.

[MatsP]

Awesome pics and thread! I've always wondered why we don't see more captive bred whiptails and other loris.

Sturisoma in the trade are often captive bred. Most other Loricariinae are probably a bit too difficult to breed, and not "wanted enough" in the market.

--
Mats

[Norman]

Awesome pics and thread! I've always wondered why we don't see more captive bred whiptails and other loris.

and not "wanted enough" in the market.

Thats the point!
I have bred most of the species I kept, but it is very unsatisfying to raise the fry without selling them. I don't have enough space keeping hundrets mature specimen of one species.

so long
Norman

[Taratron]

All well and fine for you guys across the pond, us in the US don't get the pleasure of seeing them for sale!

[MatsP]

All well and fine for you guys across the pond, us in the US don't get the pleasure of seeing them for sale!

Neither do we! Aside from the most common variety of Hemiloricaria and Sturisoma, you don't see many whiptails. Yes, if you go to shops like Pier and well stocked Maidenhead Aquatics, you may find the odd ones. But it's not like you walk around the shops thinkin "Oh, no, not another whiptail tank" [not that I would think that ANYWAYS]. I currently have the fourth whiptail species I've ever kept in one of my tanks. I have seen a few more than that, but they are far from common (and it goes back to "they are not overly wanted in the market").

Remember, this country (England) is quite densely populated - the population of Manchester is about 2.2 million, 15 million in Greater London, and in between there is Birmingham, with another 2.2 million. And Germany, where Norman lives is also a lot more densely populated than for example Arizona. So the possibility to find a fish-shop with special stock within 4-6 hours drive is much likelier. (It took me nearly 5 hours to drive from Farnborough to Rare Aquatics in Crewe yesterday, and another hour to get to the tank builder in Accrington).

Edit: Put another way: Population density in Arizona is 55.6 per sq.mi, and it's 661 per sq. mi in United Kingdom.

--
Mats

[nvcichlids]

No one has asked this yet, but what size tank is this and what kind of filtration and other fish are in here? I am contemplating getting some the next time I find them available (really expensive, run about $75 a fish last time they were available in the US)

[Norman]

Hi,

In the personal aquaria list of Niels, you will find every info you need!

All well and fine for you guys across the pond, us in the US don't get the pleasure of seeing them for sale!

Do you think we have a large amount of loricariinae species in stock of our LFS? Unfortunately we don't have.
I am happy having a nice guy as local dealer who helps me getting the species I want. But he just can procure what's offered by wholesalers.

so long
Norman

[NielsV]

No one has asked this yet, but what size tank is this and what kind of filtration and other fish are in here? I am contemplating getting some the next time I find them available (really expensive, run about $75 a fish last time they were available in the US)

Here they cost between €70 and €90 a single fish!

[NielsV]

Yesterday i chanched 50% water and a hour later i saw them spawning. Unfortunately i got a low battery of my camera . But it whas wonderful to see them spawning. And the next morning i saw this.

[NielsV]

Here they are around six weeks old. The biggest is around 2.5cm and the smallest 1.8cm.


A total picture of the tank i just took just a few minutes ago.

[Jools]

Brilliant pic!

Jools

[anton l.]

wow! nice tank!
the plecos are really unusual
especially the colour and when they carry the eggs in their mouth it whould be interesting to see how they spawn.are they hard to breed?
i see the fry are different colours,does it remain to adult size?

[Narwhal72]

The head width difference is really interesting in the fry. The one pictured on the left seems to have a considerably wider head to body length ratio compared to the one on the right? Is that a sign of sexual dimorphism at such a young age?

It will be interesting to see what they grow up into.

Thanks for the information on the food!

Andy

[Norman]

Hi Niels,

Here they are around six weeks old. The biggest is around 2.5cm and the smallest 1.8cm.

I am sorry but this is too small for this age.
With arround one month they should have reached a size of at leat 3,5cm. Most other species in the releationship of P. apithanos are growing faster, but 2 or 2,5cm is too less. I think they didn't got enough food in the first important days.

Yesterday i chanched 50% water and a hour later i saw them spawning.

Fortunately P. apithanos is very easy to spawn, but unfortunately it's absolutely not easy to raise the fry.

so long
Norman

[anton l.]

Fortunately P. apithanos is very easy to spawn, but unfortunately it's absolutely not easy to raise the fry

doesnt the male raise the fry carrying them in his mouth?
ive also noticed that 2,5 is too small.maybe next batch will grow better,i usualy feed the fry on artemia and it really helps to raise them (it has plenty of proteins 70%)

[Norman]

Hi Anton,

doesnt the male raise the fry carrying them in his mouth?

Yes, thats right. What I meant is the growing up of the fry. Most fry die suddenly before they reach a size of 5cm.

maybe next batch will grow better,i usualy feed the fry on artemia and it really helps to raise them

Meanwhile I resign feeding freshly hatched brine shrimps. Instead of this they get crushed discus granulate as well as crushed brine shrimp sticks.

so long
Norman

[anton l.]

i think thats the problem of slow growing.
one of my friends also fed fry with dry granules or wafers and the fry ended up growing to 2 cm in a month.when he started feeding them with artemia the growth level encreased a lot.probably in the wild the fry raise on different sorts of daphnia and microscopic shrimps that are so common in summer.
its wierd for them to die at 5cm..does this happen with other breeders?

[Norman]

Hi Anton,

I think you misunderstood something.
I didn't recognized a difference between feeding the fry fleshly hatched brine shrimps or crushed dry food of high quality. So I reduced the efford feeding them well. That is my experience breeding 6 different species of the Pseudohemidon-group.

It happens to most breeders that the fry will die before they reach a size of 5cm.
I don't know if that will happen to me. I can tell you more in 1 or 2 month. Some less days ago the first fry of my P. apithanos hatched and for a next batch of eggs hatching is near.

so long
Norman

[anton l.]

cool,congrats!
thanks for information,i`ll be waiting for updates.

Anton