Tank Substrate

SirHelm · Post by **SirHelm** » 17 Jan 2003, 05:13

Okay... yeah i know i posted this and it is below... but now I am getting a 100 gallon tenecor simplicity plus (4 years old) with stand and canopy for 400.00. I just stopped by the LFS and I really like how sand looks. I re-read my post and the response overall was negative towards sand. So couple of questions...

1) How thick should any substrate be? Alot of the "sites" say 2-2.5"
2) This tank is not going to be planted anytime soon ( i have a hard enough time keeping fish alive... lol). It is going to be a total catfish tank (except for my 5 danios). I will have 2 common plecos, 2 Blochiis, a group of corys, and a group of hoplos. What would be the BEST substrate for these guys??

3) Filtration of the tank will be upto the built in wet/dry filter/sump/pump + a magnum 250 canister, plus 2 power heads with filters/baskets attached.

Thanks guys/gals....!!

SH

Ben · Post by **Ben** » 17 Jan 2003, 07:29

I agree about the look of sand, it does look look really nice when well done. I had one bad experience with sand, and don't think I'll ever go back because of it. However I have spoken with lots of other people who have used it, and loved it, having no problems at all, and would then swear by it. I think the most important thing if you are planning on using sand, is to be sure to rinse it REALLY well, then rinse it again! If you are going to be using powerheads as you say, mount them fairly high up so as not to be constantly stiring up the sand causing loose clouds that can clog your filter up.

Personally, just as a matter of preference, I like very natural looking small gravel. I have one tank using a fairly small river gravel, and an other with white pea gravel. I find that the pea gravel, which is quite small, still gives a lot of the asthetic effects you get with sand. You can have hills, and valleys, and is easier to clean than sand.

Just my opinion, hope it helps you decide

zebra_pl*co · Post by **zebra_pl*co** » 17 Jan 2003, 16:32

sand, sand, sand and always sand, i wouldnt use anything else. - gravel will wear your catfishes barbs, and will hold all the fish poop, so when you clean it black stuff comes from there - sorry about my lack of technical words i.e fish poop, and black stuff, but im sure you get the idea.
I have no intention of getting plants so I use a very fine, i.e at most 3mm layer of "silver sand", this means that i can easily see any excess food or mess in the sand and just use my fingers to bring it out for the filters.
I have plecs, corys and brochis' in my tank, with a few scissor tails too, and I have had these for almost a year now, they all love the sand, it can be amazing to sit there and watch the brochis suck up the sand and push it out through their gills. even my very old salt and peppers started to grow back their barbs - they were from a neighbours house who had a massive tank with quite a sharp gravel substrate. SAND IS THE BEST.
Only thing I must say is that if your going to use a fine layer, do not direct too much pressure at the sand, as it will never settle in the tank.

Zack · Post by **Zack** » 18 Jan 2003, 02:20

I to am concidering sand although for a smaller tank (55 gallons) and i was wondering how much i should get ? (pounds) Also iv heard you can pick it up at any hardware store if so than is there any special kind i should look for? How much does sand cost? I have a geophagus cichlid of some kind any way it is a earth eater meaning he picks up gravle and sifts it around in his mouth to find food in it. Will he be able to use sand like this? Sorry to steal your topic s.h.

SirHelm · Post by **SirHelm** » 18 Jan 2003, 07:44

LOL no problem Zack!

Hey I heard that sand blasting sand is pretty good. I think I am going to give sand a whirl. Well like Zack said how much should we use? 1/4" thick? or will that become too compressed??

Zebra what do you use for your tank??

SH

Post by **Rusty** » 18 Jan 2003, 13:53

Sandblasters sand may or may not be of good quality, since it is quaried locally. Sand in your area may not be suitable. It is cheap though (a few cents a pound) and maybe worth experimenting with.

Re: depth/weight, You have to be careful about going too deep, as sand gets anaerobic at a much shallower depth than gravel does. I'd say an even layer of about 3-5 cm should be enough.

Rusty

Post by **Coryman** » 18 Jan 2003, 19:16

I would recomend sand to a depth of no more than 15 mm.

Ian

jscoggs27 · Post by **jscoggs27** » 18 Jan 2003, 19:25

I just changed from small gravel to sand bought from a lfs and wont go back too gravel again. My fish is so obviously happier in sand now.

Zack · Post by **Zack** » 19 Jan 2003, 04:46

How many pounds would it tank to put a 1/4 of sand evenly in a 55 gallon tank?

SirHelm · Post by **SirHelm** » 19 Jan 2003, 07:38

Well I am still trying to figure out how many inches 15mm is!!

To calculate poundage for sand... you would have to use a gallon calculator. Put in .25" or 1" or whatever the depth of your substrate is....for the depth, and then the width and length of your tank. For example if I used the dimemsions of my tank (60X18X1 (sand thickness))= 4.675 gallons. With 1 gallon = roughly 8 pounds I will need to buy 37.4 pounds of sand.

I think that 1 inch of sand will be excellent for the corys and loaches to sift around in. I don't think that would cause anarobic issues.

BTW the US gallon calculator is here.

http://www.pcpages.com/fish/tools/us.html

BTW I still don't know why the industry and get a way with calling a 100 gallon tank (60X18 X 20) a 100 gallon.. cuz it is only 93 according to the calculators.

thanks SH

Post by **Barbie** » 19 Jan 2003, 19:08

I use sand in most of my tanks. The very best sand I've found so far, is available from our local sand and gravel yard, called airport grade, for 5 dollars, for 2 5 gallon buckets full. This has been enough sand to do a 38 gallon, 2 75 gallons, a 55 gallon, 2 29 gallons, and still have 2/3's of one bucket full. You don't want sand to be more than 2/3's of an inch deep, as you can have trouble with anaerobic pockets forming, when the sand compacts. If you use a larger grade of sand (which airport sand is, with very little dust), you can get away with a bit more depth, but I'd still recommend never getting it more than an inch deep.

As a side note, 15mm would be 1.5 cm and there are 2.5 cm in an inch.

Hope that helps at all.

Here's a pic of my new stingrays on that airport sand. The size of the grains is very even, and its almost like very small gravel, if that makes sense. That makes it easier to vacuum and maintain.

Barbie

Zack · Post by **Zack** » 19 Jan 2003, 21:08

Nice rays, How big is there tank? Would it be alright to use sand from a river or lake around here? The water is very very clean so theres no polutants. What is an anareobick pocket?? Also most of my cats are over four inches so im sure if they want they will displace some sand. If the sand piles up it will fall back down on its own right? Or will i costantly be re spreading the sand?? Thanks again.

Post by **Rusty** » 19 Jan 2003, 21:30

An anaerobic pocket occurs when the substrate is not ventilating properly, and not enough O2 gets to a pocket in the gravel. Anaerobic bacteria start growng in that pocket, and produce toxins and noxious gases. If the substrate is disturbed, these toxins are released into the water, potentially harming your fish.

Rusty

Zack · Post by **Zack** » 20 Jan 2003, 03:15

O I C. Dont want that. Is a 1/4 inch enough for banjos to burry themselves in?

Post by **Silurus** » 20 Jan 2003, 03:18

Should be. Haven't seen any banjo cats that would bury themselves real deep in the substrate.
PS. What kind of banjos have you got?

SirHelm · Post by **SirHelm** » 20 Jan 2003, 06:40

Nice sting rays!! those guys look cool. I got the same type of sand as well!! I decided to stay away from the fine grain sand and got the larger grains. Still working on refinishing the Tank and Hood. BTW for the love of god don't use whitewash on Oak!!

SH

Ben · Post by **Ben** » 20 Jan 2003, 07:51

Barbie, that's a really nice looking substrate! Where do you buy "Airport Sand" I has a nice heavy looking grain, that wouldn't give the same problems fine sand could...

Also, beautiful Rays! I wish they were available here...

zebra_pl*co · Post by **zebra_pl*co** » 20 Jan 2003, 09:51

I was under the impression you could only use "silver sand".

I see you are talking about how much to buy, when I brought mine the smallest bag was a 5kg job, and it costed £6 from my local garden centre.

I use two mug fulls in my smaller zebra tank 70L, and I use 4 mugs in my cry and brochis tank 100L. This gives me at most a 3mm layer in my tanks.

I have loads more in the bag, I change the sand once every six weeks.

ClayT101 · Post by **ClayT101** » 20 Jan 2003, 23:14

I am thinking of switching over to sand, but am still not sure. My aquarium has lots of current and I am afraid that the sand will never settle. Anyone else know about this. I have already throughly cleaned the sand and have it waiting in buckets, but I am still not sure. Also, how coarse is the "airport sand". It looks pretty large, and may not have the same settling effects.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 20 Jan 2003, 23:44

I used playpit sand and during weekly water change just run my fingers through it so it doesn't compact the tank is only 24x12x15 and the filter (fluval 2) does cause the sand to shift at the other end of tank

Post by **Barbie** » 20 Jan 2003, 23:46

Thank you for the compliment about the rays. I have really enjoyed them more than I thought I might. I've always liked them, but these are wilds, and in two months, are already eating out of my hand. I bought them from http://www.frybabies.com. They did a great job of shipping them, and most of my recent plecos purchases.

I've used many grades of sand, up to, and including, very super fine sand in the marine tanks that I've set up for customers. All of it will settle, especially if you put it in first, then add water, without stirring it up too much. Then when you vacuum over it, the smaller particulate matter will siphon right out and never trouble you again

I rinse all sand very well first, also.

Airport sand is a grade of sand I got at our local sand and gravel yard. The same place the county gets the sand by the dump truck loads for our roads. Its just specially "graded" or sifted for the exact size. Basically its tiny bits of smooth gravel, and excellent. If you're willing to go bug the people at the local quarry or gravel yard, its amazing the finds you can make. I found a source of slate when I moved to KC. They basically sold it to me dirt cheap, because I LIKED the differently shaped pieces that they couldn't use for walkways and roofs, hehe. Good luck

I guess I could put a penny in the tank and take a close up picture so you could get a better idea of a grain size? Ummm... then again, maybe a ruler with metric measure would be better for all of our overseas posters

I'll work on getting one of those in the next week or so.

Barbie

Zack · Post by **Zack** » 21 Jan 2003, 01:23

Silirus- im not sure what kind of banjos they are yet. My lfs owner said they could get them so i orderd them. My lfs is really bad with names so im just hoping i really get banjos. The first time i ordered pictus from them they sent me four baby tiger shovel nose cats. Oh well.

Post by **Silurus** » 21 Jan 2003, 01:33

Zack,

If you paid pictus prices for baby tiger shovelnoses, then that wouild be a steal.
Would it be possible to take some pics of your banjos when they arrive? I should be able to tell you (very roughly) what they are.

Zack · Post by **Zack** » 21 Jan 2003, 06:59

Well they are always for sale around here for about ten bucks a pop. I of course didnt buy them though as they would have outgrown my house. I can deffinately take some pics when i get them but im not sure how to post them i think i read something in another forum categorie. I'll just read that some more and do what it says. I alaso have a plec that i need identified when i get the banjos i'll take pics of both.