Is it possible to diagnose fish tuberculosis?

[BioPod]

Hi,

Not sure which forum this question should go into.

My cardinals are swimming in my aquarium together with some lovely plecos, but I am afraid the cardinals might have the cardinal disease!

Not to mention that I am scared I will have to lose my catfish, I am very afraid about catching a disease from the water in the tank.

What would you recommend me to do ?

[MatsP]

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=Fish+tuberculosis+diagnosis
(Second link is pretty good).

I think it's a fairly rare disease.

It is not the same as "Neon Tetra Disease".

--
Mats

[The.Dark.One]

2 of my friends have had fish TB, both on their hands. They both went to the GP after I advised them what it probably was - and I was right!

Having said that it is quite rare and even if the tank/fish are infected you should be OK unless you have any broken skin on your hands etc.

[BioPod]

MatsP: Thank you for that

I am keeping the link for later use...

But again, I was not looking for the articles, I googled it before, I am looking for a non-article style feedback, from people's experience and not from article writers.

The 2nd link was quite relaxing, BUT, I have 2 new born babies in the house and the thought of something that might harm them, makes me want to push the aquarium to the sidewalk.

Does the neon disease also make the fish grow with bad backs? have white open wounds on them and swolen eyes?

All my Cardinals show something similar to this, but swim good, eat good and are not shy or even not breathing heavily.

At first I thought that I bought a bad batch, but after read the TB thing, I started panicking (new born babies...)

[MatsP]

Sorry, I can't help with direct experience, as (to my knowledge) I haven't had neither of neon tetra disease or fish TB.

As long as your babies aren't:
1. Having open sores on their body and putting that part of their body in the tank.
2. Drinking/getting fish-water in their mouth.
you should be ok, from what I understand. It is not a very contagious disease, from my understanding. And that is if it IS Fish TB (see below).

It sounds to me like you have some other type of disease in the tank. Quite possibly a bacterial infection (and a fluid inbalance -> pop-eye effect). A photo of your fish would help.

--
Mats

[BioPod]

Oh I really hope it is "just" a regular bacterial infection with symptoms of bloated eyes.

It's hard to play Dr. House when it comes to your dear ones!

Here are the pics I could get, it's late here and the fish like to sleep in the beyond some swords.

I did not see any of the bloated eyes ones, but did find those with no tail fin, or with no side fin :S
This one also have a white sore in the middle of the body.

(still working on focusing the correct object...)

[Bas Pels]

I just noticed your Papliochromis ramirezi does look very OK to me

A desease which not even attacs all fish in your tank will, most likely, be quite harmless

Fish TBC kills all fish indiscriminately - while neon desease, which is harmless to humans - does discriminate. It only killes tetras.

I do sympathize with your feelings regarding spreading any desease to your babies. However, the desease is usually not that dangerout to humans, but the cure quite often is.

An airstone produces aerosols, which can become inhalated - thus from youre own health point of view insulate the tnak, try to keep your hands dry and if that does not succeed, clean them immediately ans thoroughly.

Obviously, any dead fish will be taken out with a net, not to be used for anything else, which is afterwards rinsed with bleach - and take care of any dropplets dripping from this net.

This way you don't put yourself or your family at risk, and give the fishes the best possible care within this frame

on a sidenote, I never risk myself on behalf of any fish. For instance, I don't even use antibiotics, in order to prevenst immunity in the bacteria which than jump to my body - to appear immune to all antibiotics. Better to lose some fish.

[apistomaster]

I think you have a problem with "Neon Disease".
It often shows up as the fish near the end of their natural lives but anything which depresses their immune system can leave them susceptible to this disease.

Fish TB is very rare and there is nothing which can cure either disease so the best thing to do is to remove and destroy all the affected fish.

If doing so leaves you with only a couple Tetras perhaps it would be best to destroy them all and not worry about the other species.
The use of a quarantine and treatment tank before adding any new fish can not be over emphasized. I would wait a month before replacing the Tetras and then only after they have cleared a few weeks in quarantine. The causative organism is omnipresent so there is no point in worrying about it. Concentrate on introducing only properly quarantined new fish.

[Industrial]

Working at a pet shop, I see problems like that quite often. Many times, when customers bring in their old fish there is at least one or two fish per community tank that has a kinked spine. In a lot of the store's display tanks, the older cardinals and neons also develop kinked spines. In my community aquarium, one of my Prionobrama filigera also developed a kinked spine. After dealing with these fish for over a year on a daily basis I haven't come down with anything yet (knock on wood). To me, it seems the neons may have a species specific bacterial infection. I've had good luck treating the tank with sulfa. If you really suspect fish TB, I believe kanamycin is supposed to treat it.

[excuzzzeme]

Kinked spines is not indicative of age but of illness. Poor diets and bad genes can also cause this to appear. I would make every attempt to ensure the water wasn't harboring bad bacteria and that diet was varied enough to preclude this from happening. Because it can be caused by so many different reasons, I hate to state that 'XYZ' causes it.

Neon Tetra disease has it's own symptoms as does neon caudal disease.

Fish TB is highly contagious to humans and a true case of it is in fact rare.

The best thing you can do is to treat symptoms after very careful research and also to continue medications and treatment for the full prescribed time. Too often people stop when symptoms clear. This is the worst thing you can do. You must treat for the full prescribed time as not doing so will render the cause to strengthen and become treatment resistant. This is the same reason your doctor tells you to take a medication until it is gone, EVEN IF YOU FEEL BETTER! Don't treat the symptoms and then stop as you have not eradicated the cause. Continue the treatment as prescribed.

Fish cannot be treated proactively, only retroactively. This means that giving the fish a treatment because you are worried about them "catching something" doesn't work. You must wait for clear indications of an infection or wound. The best defense a fish has is clean water and a varied diet that is appropriate for the species. Many humans and animals can be vaccinated proactively, at present, fish cannot.

[The.Dark.One]

Fish TB is highly contagious to humans and a true case of it is in fact rare.

I don't agree. If there are no breaks in the skin the risk is low. 2 of my friends over the last 20 years have had it, which has been confirmed by skin specialists.

[BioPod]

Kinked spines is not indicative of age but of illness. Poor diets and bad genes can also cause this to appear. I would make every attempt to ensure the water wasn't harboring bad bacteria and that diet was varied enough to preclude this from happening. Because it can be caused by so many different reasons, I hate to state that 'XYZ' causes it.

Neon Tetra disease has it's own symptoms as does neon caudal disease.

Fish TB is highly contagious to humans and a true case of it is in fact rare.

Thank you for the serious answer and I must say that I agree with you about everything, BUT, are you suggesting that the crooked spine can be cured?

I did try an anti fungal treatment on the aquarium, for a full term as described, and I must say I do not see any difference with the white excess on the Cardinal bodies.

My discus and cats how ever seems just fine.

Since then, I have bought a big bottle of disinfect alcohol gel, and even if I get the slightest drop, I wash my hands with it (and rinse several times with soap).

I tried to catch the Cardinals but they are just too fast for me. they eat, swim and act quite normal.

[apistomaster]

@ excuseme,

Obviously you have never had to deal with thousands of newly imported fish if you think that proactively treating them for several diseases and parasites is a waste of time and money. Proactive treatment is often the difference between staying in business or going out of business. Simply relying on good water conditions is not sufficient. The fish caught in the wild come in barely alive and are nearly always sick. Some kind of proactive approach is necessary.

Old Tetras often do develop humped spines. They were not evolved to live very long. Humped backs are a sign of senility among old Tetras. In aging studies annual Killiefish have been used because aging is accelerated and all the fish get humped spines as they approach the end of their natural lives which is as little as 9 months with some species.

[excuzzzeme]

You are correct about my limited knowledge in regards to proactive treatment.

In regards to my statement about kinked spines, I tried not to imply that it could be cured or repaired. To my knowledge it can't. I tried to state that diet can have a huge impact on it.