Filters

[gzc]

Hi folks,

Does anyone have thoughts on filter setups for a rack with multiple tanks?

Since my setup is breeding/planted tanks, sponge filters would be best for fry. With multiple levels, I figure canister filters are best for planted tanks and will store easier on the bottom level of the stand. From what I can tell canister filters are easier to maintain, harder to clean, require less space inside the tank.

I have been reading that hobbyists prefer sponge filters because they are easier to clean, need less space out of the tank, and are inexpensive.

Lastly, I was wondering about the three filtration types: Mechanical, Biological, and Chemical. Plants are natural filters which provide biological and chemical filtration. Sponge filters are mostly biological. Canister filters use mechanical, biological, and chemical. Though, canisters contain less biological media than other filters. With a sponge filter and aquarium plants in a 30 gallon breeder tank, is mechanical filtration really needed?

Thank you,
George

[MatsP]

This is one of those questions that can be debated for a long time. My personal preference when I built a fish-room [now disbanded through forced out of my house by my ex-wife] was to multiple central sump filters.

One filter would do the filtration for 3-4 different tanks. I used water storage containers (used in the UK for central heating header tanks for example), and either used multiple containers or put partition walls in to separate media from the pump). Any container that is water tight, food-safe and relatively sturdy can be used for this purpose. It's an advantage if it's also relatively light-proof, as the beneficial bacteria that does your biological filtration don't appreciate light very much, from my understanding.

I find that this solution is both cost effective, and offers a good amount of filtration, and reasonably space efficient [compared to a large number of external filters].

I also arranged the system such that the water from the RO system waste would go into the sump of one system, and the RO water overflow from my RO water storage would go into another system - that way, I get automatic water changes on two of the systems, and only needed to manually change water on one of the systems (and even then, it had an overflow, so if I wanted to, I could set the water running at a good trickle, and the water would change itself).

There are drawbacks with this sort of system:
1. You probably will need to drill the tanks.
2. Flooding - particularly if you can not arrange for an overflow drain on the sump systems - because the water goes out of the tank into a container that isn't sealed, there is a possibility of flooding the fishroom.
3. You'll be doing a bit of DIY plumbing or paying someone else to do plumbing for you - nothing overly complicated, but if you are not handy with solvent weld pipes and such things, it'll be a learning experience (and another potential source of floods!)

(I wasn't too worried about minor flooding, as my fish-room was in a separate building with a concrete floor, so as long as it didn't flood all the time, it wasn't a big deal...)

--
Mats

[sidguppy]

go sponge

there are a whole list of reasons why.
I'm not talking about those tiny plastic tube contraptions with a cylindrical ribbed sponge attached, although these are very handy when you're raising tiny fry in a small tank

I'm talking about what we call the "Hamburg mattenfilter" in Dutch. it's basically a partition of the tank that is separated by a glass pane which holds a large squarre sponge
the water enters the filter because on one end the pane leaves a space; it is sucked though the sponge and on the other end is a small pondpump or other submersable pump that pumps the water back in the tank

these filter/tanks can even be driven by a largew central airpump and a whole network of airhoses which you can tweak for each tank; the last solution is less hard on the electrical bill.

number of reasons why doing it this way:
#1: you keep the tanks separate!
if a tank catches a disease and you have centralized filtering (regardless of type) you're in the deep doo-dah.
similar if a tank for any reason springs a leak or needs to be emptied.

#2: it's a low-energy way of filtering. electrickery is expensive enough and 1 single airpump uses a lot less than several submerged pondpumps

#3: it's VERY EASY to clean. you pull up the sponge, take it out, rinse it with tapwater that has the same temperature as the tankwater and wedge it in. in a rack the sponge bends and you can take it out between tanks. a little experience teaches you how not to empty all the goo in the tank next to it.
if you ever had to clean out a biofilter (yes, i do got 1 on my huge 315 gallon showtank), you'll feel the difference pretty fast.
also: if you go sponge, you can clean 1 tank while not affecting any of the others......some fish simply poop more than others.
they do

#4: how effective and succesful is this? well, I can tell you this: the LARGEST fish breeder that does ornamental fishbreeding and sale (wholesale and retail) in the Netherlands have only this type of filter in every single tank; they run the whole thing with several large airpumps and they breed anything!
they breed catfish (several Synodontis species, Cory's, L numbers and others), tons and tons of cichlids, several species of Potamotrygon (rays) and many many other fish.

#5: it is SIMPLE. the simple solutions are often the best. the internal sponge filter is very simple, it cannot leak (it's IN the tank!) and hence it's very safe. it cannot block if you leave 1 inch of space above the sponge, a filthy sponge will be passed over by water.......so you can't flood the room! it's also much more silent than any bio. it has apart from the pump no pipes or moving parts and if you go air it hasn't even got that.......

less parts, no pipes, no leaking, no blockage, no flooding, little noise (!) and easy to clean, build and maintain.
;)

[PlecoCrazy]

I agree with sidguppy. In the US the mattenfilter goes by the name Poret Filter Foam. This setup works great and I highly recommend as well. If you decide to do the filter in the sump then the same foam works great for that as well.

I use no chemical filtration other than what is in the RO unit to clean the tap water. For additional mechanical filtration on messy tanks you can use a HOB filter or canister to help.

[Shane]

As Mats foretold, you are going to get a lot of differing opinions and none of them will be wrong. Each will have its advantages and disadvantages.

The basic fishroom filtration systems are:

1) Air driven using a compressor (sponge filters, corner/box filters, undergravel systems)
2) Internal electric driven (powerheads, mattenfilters, internal filters)
3) External electric (HOBs, canisters)
4) Centralized system

I run my fishroom on a combination of modified biowheel HOBs with an added sponge pre-filter and powerheads with attached sponge filters (some tanks have both). The great thing about HOBs is that they take up no fishroom space. However, if you have a very large fishroom space you could devote some of it either to sumps (as in Mats' system) or canister filters. I run my biowheel HOB filters without chemical media inserts, but keep some inserts on hand if I should need them for some reason.

Advantages of using HOBs and powerheads: No drilling of tanks or plumbing to install, no chance of spreading illness between tanks, no fishroom space lost to external filters/sumps, no catastrophic failures if one pump/filter fails (as can happen on a centralized system). Each tank has individual water chemistry control. Tanks are more attractive (meaning less hardware to hide) than either air or internal systems, but not as attractive as centralized where there is zero hardware in the tank. Disadvantages: More expensive to set up than air driven systems and most internal electric systems, can require lots of electrical outlets, higher electricity cost per month than either air or centralized systems.

The mattenfilter system does have all the advantages listed above (and I plan to experiment with them in a couple of tanks soon) but it also has, to my mind, some significant drawbacks. 1) Each tank will lose 5-10% of its usable space and 2) They are unsightly and almost impossible to hide. These are not big issues in an "industrial" type fishroom, but they are if you like each tank to look like a nice display free of hardware.

-Shane

Below, pic of modified biowheel. The sponge pre-filter is rated for a 40 gallon tank as is the biowheel itself, so this combo gives about 80 gallons of filtration for under US $30 per tank. I use one of these on tanks under 30 gallons and two on tanks up to 45 gallons. Certainly overkill considering my water change regime (50% weekly) but my tanks always look good.

[biotope69]

I am breeding L10a rineloricaria right now, and I moved one of my 3 emperor 400 hob filter to my 10 gallon tank so that it already had a biomass. I must agree with Shane that no 1 answer is wrong but here is what I find. The main reason you have a fish die-off is because of the build up of nitrates and inappropriate water parameters. I make sure that when the tank is set up I have plenty of live plants to minimize the nitrates and over-filtration hence the 400 biowheel. I took a smaller HOB sponge and cut down into the middle so that I had an alternative connection since this model does not come with a sponge pre-filter. Since we all know that fry are small and will wriggle their way into the sponge I further customized the prefilter by taking a white sock that had been soaked in tank water and cut down to size as to fit over the sponge pre-filter; it was then tightly secured in place with a rubber band on the filter pipe. As to this date my fry are steadily growing and I do not need to do water changes even though they are being constantly fed ( I have had 0 fry deaths with this technique and they have been around for about 14 days now pretty tough to do considering their high mortality rate within the first week). Over-filtration is key and I find the easiest way to do this is with a HOB filter and live plants. Good luck with the breeding

[Jools]

Just to join in on this old chestnut! I propose a different viewpoint. I use all the filter types mentioned above in my 45 tank fishroom. Different solutions for different fishes requirements. My suggestion is you match the filter to the fish and not the other way around. Work out what fish you are going to be keeping, then debate the filter.

The hamburg mattenfilter/poret filter foam is really good (and also why they are our only official sponsor) fry tanks, corydoras and many other ste-ups but it doesn't work well with sand or strong current. Also my Panaque blocked it in about 8 months. I do however have one running on a Corydoras tank that has never been cleaned in nearly 3 years.

I run a large display tank (large barbs, loaches and similar) which is heavily stocked with a mattenfilter underneath and an external eheim thermofilter and it's perfect and low maintenance. If it had fewer fish in it then just the mattenfilter would be OK. Its only drawback is the space occupied in the tank and I removed the problem by putting the filter foam in the sump (and heater can also go there).

Air driven is good, but it is very noisy. By recording when they switch on and off, I also did some calcs on energy usage and found that energy usage by heaters in tanks with less current was about 15-20% higher than those with current. So, my fast hot water tanks used about the same energy as slow water cooler tanks(which are also lower in the rack system) if you combine the energy used for heating and filtration. It's a complex one that! Best solution is to heat the room, but I have not managed to do that yet.

Cheers,

Jools

[apistomaster]

Jools.

I think your idea of using Poret foam filters in a sump is an excellent idea.

[gzc]

Thank you Mats, sidguppy, Trent, Shane, biotope69, Jools, and apistomaster.

I figure the filter would affect all my other equipment setups. All my aquarium breeding room will contain one Corydoras catfish per tank and combinations of Anubias, Cryptocoryne, and Echinodorus plants.

Since the 10 and 20 gallon tank rack will be used mostly for breeding, and one or two tanks for quarantine/hospital use. The general setup would be: Hydro Pro II (10 gallon) & III (20 gallon long) sponge filter, Rena 400 air pump (for 80-90 gallons), and JBJ True Temp Digital Heater Controller + Titanium Kit 150W.

With the 30 gallon breeder multi-level stands: Hydro Pro IV sponge filter or Poret Filter Foam (cut to fit), Rena 400 air pump (for 90 gallons), and JBJ True Temp Digital Heater Controller + Titanium Kit 300W.

If I go with a display/specimen/planted 30 gallon breeder tanks, a bare equipment in-tank setup per tank looks like: Eheim 2215 canister, Hydor ETH In-Line Heater 200W 1/2" tubing, and JBJ True Temp Digital Heater Controller. With a canister filter, I will have the option of the Ranco ETC Digital Temperature Controller or the JBJ True Temp Digital Heater Controller. I will have a few backup 300W titanium heaters if I go with more JBJ than Ranco controllers, which is not a bad thing.

Thanks again for the suggestions,
George

[MatsP]

If you are going to run airdriven filters, I'd suggest getting ONE big airpump, rather than many small ones. You only need to buy two or three before your big airpump has paid for itself.

--
Mats

[apistomaster]

For a 30 gal decorative display tank I would highly recommend spending a little more and get the Eheim Classic 2217 instead of the 2215. I own several 2217's and one 2215 and I think the 2215 is pathetic. I did not consider it adequate for my 34 gal show tank. I would consider the 2215 fine for a 20 gal tank. You can't trust the manufacturer's recommendations much. They seem to be rating them for very lightly stocked tanks.
One 2217 and one air stone will provide you with a pristine tank which is well aerated.
You wouldn't think the difference in gph would be so different between the two models but it is dramatic.

In my breeding and grow out tanks I use two Azoo OxygenPlus Bio-Filter #6 sponge filters and an air stone. The #6 sponge filter is sold by Foster and Smith and is equivalent to a HydroSponge IV but is cheaper as are the replacement sponges. I run one of them with a MaxiJet 600 power head and one by it's air lift. This way I get my good circulation and a filter combined. It just happens that the extension inlet tube of MaxiJet power heads fit perfectly directly on the Azoo sponge filter in place of the air lift tube. These are my standard filter set ups for all my tanks from my 20 longs and 40 breeders.
The MaxiJet 400 is something to consider because if a tank is heavily stocked the greater flow of the larger flow rate of the 600 can cause the sponge to collect so much silt that it will actually collapse the sponge. I eventually began using a coarser, 20 pores per inch bio-filter foam cut in 4 X 24 inch strips which I wrap around the core of the filter and hold in place with releasable cable ties. This coarser, open cell filter foam is easy to clean under a nozzle and garden hose and then resused. I continue to use OEM sponges in the air lift driven sponge filters.

[geminiluna]

In my breeding and grow out tanks I use two Azoo OxygenPlus Bio-Filter #6 sponge filters and an air stone. [...] I run one of them with a MaxiJet 600 power head and one by it's air lift.

What kind of air pump are you using to generate the airlift in that second sponge?

Thnx!

[MatsP]

In my breeding and grow out tanks I use two Azoo OxygenPlus Bio-Filter #6 sponge filters and an air stone. [...] I run one of them with a MaxiJet 600 power head and one by it's air lift.

What kind of air pump are you using to generate the airlift in that second sponge?

Thnx!

Are you looking for a single tank's worth of air, or something that can do lots of tanks. For the latter, you can buy "multi-line" airpumps. They don't cost much more than the ones with one or two outlets.

--
Mats

[geminiluna]

Just a single tank worth of air. 30-US gallons; which I think is what...36 inches x 13 inches foot print. Haven't decided if I'll implement second sponge in similar fashion as mentioned above with powerhead; or if I'll use my spare Marineland as well. I'm assuming just the one sponge with the one air pump would not provide sufficient water turnover.

Thx!

[MatsP]

So for that size tank, it's very easy to find airpumps. I don't know what's available in the US, but here in England I'd choose a middle of the range TetraTec. This page has the same type of pump [judging by the picture] that I've got a couple of:
http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/1 ... pumps.html
[This is not a suggestion to buy from this company - just an illustration of the pumps I suggest].

--
Mats

[crkinney]

I have gone with the poret filters for my three 55 gal tanks .At petco they sell an air pump with four outlets for 26$ I run two of the 10" filters with the air lifts on one pump. They are the best thing since sliced bread.

[geminiluna]

They are the best thing since sliced bread.

Which are the best thing since sliced bread? The filters, or the pump? If the pump at Petco that you refer to, can you private message me with the brand so I can look it up?

I've got an old air pump (suitable 20-30 gallons supposedly) but have never been terribly impressed with what it puts through an air stone and can't imagine it would do that great a job drawing through a sponge filter.

[apistomaster]

I use a linear compressor air pump which supplies air to all my tanks.

[geminiluna]

I use a linear compressor air pump which supplies air to all my tanks.