Otocinclus Breeding

[James0816]

Further research reveals that both Fen and Flub are not good for Briggs snails. This would take these off the table for use. Time to break out the tweezers for sure.

[apistomaster]

Tweezers and all other old fashion remedies are futile.
If you fear for the snails then collect those of value and house them temporarily for about 2 weeks. Make a large water change after the Hydra are gone and return the snails.
I seriously doubt the Briggs Snails would be harmed by the extremely low doses of flubendazole required to eliminate the Hydra. You can't imagine a more "silver bullet" approach to eliminating Hydra than the small doses of flubendazole.

I fail to understand your continued bringing up useless alternatives. But it is your fish and if you refuse to use the only effective method of safely eliminating them then be prepared for fry loses to the Hydras.
I can no longer provide you with sound advice if you are unwilling to use the only known safe and effective method of COMPLETELY eliminating them.
I am willing to send you enough to treat all your tanks for a modest fee of $5.00 and if you send me a self addressed envelope with a stamp on it. I will need to know the number and sizes of the tanks and then I can send you individual packets of the correct dose so all you have to do is empty the tiny zip lock bags. It isn't even necessary to make suspension; you can just dump the correct packet into each tank and it will float for a little while but will soon become an invisible suspension in the tank water. I can't think of a a better offer. If you lack faith in my advice then I can not feel sorry for your fry looses.

[James0816]

Don't get me wrong here...I do so greatly appreciate your sound advice and the offer. My concern is for the critters of course. I wouldn't want to kill the snails in the same manner of the Hydra. If it's a two week period to be able to put the snails back in the tank, then that would be plausible. I guess what it boils down to is how long would it take for the tank to be ready to house the Briggs again? They are an important product for the fry guys. I'll shoot you a PM.

[apistomaster]

The treatment may take as little as 7 to as many as 10 days.
I reiterate, the chances of these low of doses have virtually no chance of harming the snails.
It takes up to 10 times the Hydra dose to even have a slight chance of harming snails.
Once you only see wilted Hydra then two days later change 50 to 75% of the water.
Do not use activated carbon in any filter during the treatment because it will remove the flubendazole. After completing the treatment and partial water changes then using some activated carbon will remove any minute amount of residual flubendazole.

[James0816]

Ok...I don't use carbon anyway. ;o)

We'll go for it. The Otos and their fry are the most important part of this whole deal so I have to do what I can to protect them.

[apistomaster]

A wise decision.
Maybe I confused you with another poster but are you also having some success breeding Otocinclus cocama?
I would love to successfully breed those.

[James0816]

A wise decision.
Maybe I confused you with another poster but are you also having some success breeding Otocinclus cocama?
I would love to successfully breed those.

Not yet on the Cocama's, but we're giving it a go. It looks like the Macro's will be the next group to spawn.

[James0816]

Vittatus update: (17) eggs found today, (3) wiggle waggles, didn't try to count the older fry guys. I'm really curious on the spawning activity. Of course I don't know if it is one lady or both. It's almost as if they are laying in test batches. Either that or the Hydra are actually interferring with it all. Either way, I have order some meds to erradicate them. I've been speaking with a very knowledgable person about and have been ensured that no harm will come to anything in the tank other than Hydra.

Macrospilus: The female is still trying to get the guys' attention. ADHD still taking over them. She reals them in, a little nudge game and then over to the plants. It's at that point where the boys "see a toad and then chase after it". Only explanation I gots fer it.

[James0816]

Another spawn taking place. Not sure if it will be another mini or not though. I counted (27) eggs at the moment. Most of these are laid in the Bacopa area. I've only seen a couple Hydra there which I wondering if it plays a role. Either way, I will be eliminating them soon and hopefully safely. Snapped off a few pics. Time to see how good they may have turned out.

[James0816]

Got home late again today. Hatching already took place. No wigglers on the glass at the moment. Most are still on the plants. I went ahead and did the water change. Normally this is done right before the hatching but I think it will be ok. Didn't get a chance to count them before the lights went out.

[Kaczman]

Am I the only person waiting for more posts from James? Are you OK our friend? What happened that you suddenly stopped sharing with us your achievements and thoughts? I hope you're doing well. All the best!!

[James0816]

Thanks....Still here. Haven't been a lot going on of late with the Otos. Been working with the shrimp in the mean time.

[James0816]

Came home today to do a big trimming in the Vittatus tank....wrong....they had other plans. Spawning instead. It seems as if they can somehow read my mind in what I'm going to do. Everytime I go to do a big trim, they spawn. ;) I only got a quick glance and saw a few eggs. I did see one that is non viable. I'll work elsewhere until later this evening before the lights go out and see if I can get a better look.

[James0816]

Here's a couple of shots for today:



This one shows a non viable egg. I'll have to remove that one.


I briefly checked and found a few more eggs and one more non viable.

[James0816]

Got home today and didn't find any eggs. Hmmm...disturbing. I only had a couple minutes to look but didn't look good. Now to try and figure that one out. On plus side...I found a fry that I would guestimate about 4-5 days old! They must have a secret hiding spot for eggs now. I'll do some more looking either tonight or tomorrow and then tank maintenance.

[AznSaiyan]

Hello I have some question. What temperature do you mostly have?
What kind of plants do they mostly lay there eggs?
How do you see if it is a male or female?

I have 11 oto. dont ask me what kind i dont know lol.
i think affinis wild.
But i cant see which one is girl or which one is boy.
I know only 1 that is sure female. It is fat and saw it breeding with other.

But the other oto. i cant see if it is female or male.
they are all like 4cm.

Can you help me answer my question please.

[James0816]

Hello I have some question. What temperature do you mostly have?
What kind of plants do they mostly lay there eggs?
How do you see if it is a male or female?

Good morning AznSaiyan.

I keep the breeding tanks at around 78F.
The females seem to get picky about where they lay eggs of late. The three main plants that they use are Bacopa Monnerei, Ludwigia Repens and C. Wendtii. As to where the majority get laid, that is where the pickiness comes in at. This latest spawn occured mainly in the crypts.

The Hydra may have some part in this though but can't be for sure. I definately need to get rid of them. Apisto is assisting me with that if I get off my duff and get the mailers out to him.

As for sexing, it's pretty easy when they are adults. The ladies are much bigger and have a more rounded belly. The males are slender and have a more streamlined form from the head to the tail. Very obvious when viewing from the top.

[AznSaiyan]

what do you mean hydra? is it that bad? they dont lay in hydra

[James0816]

Hydra are pesky little critters with stinging tentacles. Picture it as a minute freshwater jellyfish but only stationary. They feed on the micro animals in the tank but can also be bad for small fry and shrimp.

[James0816]

Pleasant surprise today. While I didn't find any eggs, I did find one freshy hatched fry. While searching for others, I started seeing more older fry. I wound up counting (6) now that look to be approaching a week in age. Very nice! I will still have to do a small water change today and will do so slowly just as if the eggs were hatching tomorrow as was expected.

[AznSaiyan]

i only saw 1 time spawn. never seen eggs. I wonder when they will spawn again. i have water 24C. also still dont know what the other oto. are. female or male. cant figure it out. one is very tall but its also small. if i look at it all are male 10 out of 11. so i think i have 10 male :S i really cant tell.

when you know they are adult? how many month they will be adult?

[James0816]

You can normally start to tell them apart after a couple of months.

[Sam]

Wow this is excellent, I came here wondering why one of mine was so fat. Excellent read too

[AznSaiyan]

how can you see its a couple? when one of the two die. will it find a new partner? your oto are very active. mine some will swim and some stay the whole day in same spot.

[James0816]

Since I initially started out with one male and one female they kind of paired themselves. ;)

After the addition of the other two ladies, I wasn't certain the male was interacting with them. It wasn't until the passing of his original partner that I then discovered he was mating with the other females.

[AznSaiyan]

Since I initially started out with one male and one female they kind of paired themselves. ;)

After the addition of the other two ladies, I wasn't certain the male was interacting with them. It wasn't until the passing of his original partner that I then discovered he was mating with the other females.

oh but you dont know when or how you can see if it is a couple.

do you have that weird thing too? I have 18 oto. 2 aquarium so I split it 9.

i cant see if its are female or male. still dont know the differents and i cant see some are big size but not fat. some are very small and are little fat one. no tip how to see if it is male or female?

I dont see any couple. not even quit active like yours. but i just saw some big ones and i think its two females. its swimming sometimes together and sometimes they kissing. kissing on body and on the mouth. two females lol. does your females did that too?

Also i think i have different species of oto. will they breed together like platy?

like red platy will breed with sunset platy.

I have different oto. so i am worry they wont breed. bought it from store it was affinis but if i look closer they are not same species i think.

[James0816]

Unfortunately, the pet stores use Affinis as a catch all name. I see it all the time; labled as Affinis but in the tank you will Macrosphilus, Vestitus and Vitattus.

[AznSaiyan]

but will different species breed?

[James0816]

I do not believe that the different species will cross but don't quote me on that.

[James0816]

It is with great sadness that I make this entry. I wasn't going to post at first but decided it wouldn't be true to myself or to the people reading this.

I just encountered my worst tank disaster in my fish keeping years. I lost all my Cocama's due to a busted tank. Some time during the night, the left side of the light fixture broke free which fell onto the tank breaking the side pane. I have suspended lights over most of the tanks. I didn't have time to investigate as yet this morning.

Also lost were (7) Propinqua shrimp and maybe my Brigg. I just got these beautiful Propinqua guys in yesterday too. The Crypts that were on that side of the tank were snapped. Most likely cut by the glass as the water gushed out.

Cleaned up what I could before leaving. Remaining shrimp should be fine without a filter for a while. Hopefully it is still operational. Have about 2" of water above the substrate.

This is not the end of this project. I will rebuild. I'll have a new tank put together today and then start the search for a new group of Cocama's.