Identification help.....L134?

[Andypex]

Hi Everyone

I have just purchased 5 Plecos described to me as L134 (P.Compta) from a local guy i know. I have no reason to question or doubt him. However the plecs have massive variations in their colour patterns which is making me wonder. I have set them up in a breeding set up and don't want to waste time trying to breed different species or worse.... end up with Hybrids.
Aqualog ID does state that L134 has massive variations in pattern and having studied my fish against Aqualog and Datz ID pages i think i maybe have 4 L134 and one Candy stripe pleco....

It would be great if you guys could give me some feedback and help me ID them and also sex them if you can
I'll post the Pictures of all 5 fish so you can have a good look.

Thanks in advance
Andy

[Andypex]

Fish 1

[Andypex]

Fish 2


Fish 3

[Andypex]

Fish 4




Fish 5

[Acanthicus]

Hi,

the second one is a Hypancistrus, maybe H. furunculus. Do you have a lateral pic of it?

[corybrummie2010]

I think the second fish could be a male

Peckoltia vittata

[MatsP]

Yes, I agree, the second fish looks like

Peckoltia vittata

- the rest are P. compta as far as I can see.

--
Mats

[Unungy]

[quote="Andypex"]Fish 4



1. L134 -

Peckoltia compta

3. L134 - Variant "how different"
4. L134 - Variant "how different"

2. If it came in the same group "wild" then it could be a Peckoltia sp. L140

Peckoltia sp(l140)

[smitty]

I know for a fact the that I am not very knowledgeable about plecos regardless of my love for them. I guess I was wrong in thinking that No.2 was L009. Thanks guys for your expertise.

[Unungy]

I know for a fact the that I am not very knowledgeable about plecos regardless of my love for them. I guess I was wrong in thinking that No.2 was L009. Thanks guys for your expertise.

I am not an expert bud, I was just trying to provide my opinion.

[davej]

Of all the L134 I have seen the border between the Yellow and the black/brown is always well defined a very sharp line. I would agree that your fish #2 is something different. As for the rest they all appear to be L134's, there is a lot of variation in the striping patterns on them.

[Unungy]

Of all the L134 I have seen the border between the Yellow and the black/brown is always well defined a very sharp line. I would agree that your fish #2 is something different. As for the rest they all appear to be L134's, there is a lot of variation in the striping patterns on them.

I've never seen so many variations between them in real life except in the books
It is truly amazing...

I guess the question now is should they breed together? although technically the are the same specie right?

Pretty fish, I've seen some truly amazing variants in books.

[MatsP]

Let's just settle that #2 is a "Peckoltia vittata group" fish -

L140

,

L009

and

L015

are all variants that could be shipped out together with P. compta.

--
Mats

[Acanthicus]

Hi,

there are actually two variants. The one from Rio Tapajos and the one from Rio Jamanxim. Both are shown above.

What makes you all so sure it is a Peckoltia? And who said they came out of one shipment? I wouldn´t be that sure without a lateral pic.

[MatsP]

I'm not 100% sure it's a peckoltia - but I believe it is based on the overall shape - I have kept P. vittata in the past, and it looks very close.

And of course, it could have come from ANYWHERE. All I'm saying is that _IF_ it came from the same region, it's likely to be one of the L-numbers I listed above.

--
Mats

[Andypex]

WOW! thanks everyone for all the replies!!
So i definitely have 4 x L134's that i can try and breed...... i guess i'll just have to see how the fry turn out regarding their colour patterns!! i have never seen so much variation apart from in books either.... it was very weird because i was looking at L134 in Aqualog and i have a fish to match nearly every variation they have pictured for L134

Does anyone have any guesses for sex on fishes 1, 3 ,4 , 5???

And i guess Fish 2 is an male P.Vittata then?? I can try and get more photos of him if it will help?? when you request a 'lateral' photo can you please explain what you need? is it a picture of the fishes side or of its underneath?? so you can see the mouth?

Anyway, Thanks very much for the help so far

Andy

[racoll]

So i definitely have 4 x L134's that i can try and breed...... i guess i'll just have to see how the fry turn out regarding their colour patterns!

there are actually two variants. The one from Rio Tapajos and the one from Rio Jamanxim. Both are shown above.

As Daniel says, fish four and five look like the Rio Jamanxim form of P. compta. The description includes specimens from this river, but they don't discuss the variation. As to whether they are the same species, and to what degree of intermediate forms there are, is hard to say.

If it were my decision, I would definitely not breed fish with such different phenotypes, just in case.

when you request a 'lateral' photo can you please explain what you need? is it a picture of the fishes side or of its underneath?? so you can see the mouth?

A lateral photo is one from the side (preferably underwater). A mouth shot would be good too, to confirm that it is not a

Hypancistrus

[davej]

Kind of looks like all males to me.

[MatsP]

I too think they are all males.

--
Mats

[dconnors]

I have raised about 150-200 P. compta. 4 of the 5 photos are just that, I see no reason to believe that any of the fish pictured are from the Rio Jamanxim. There is not enough spacing between the patterns-all of my breeders look that way. It is just the pattern that they get with age. As far as the one that doesn't fit with the others I must agree with Acanthicus, it looks to me to be Hypancistrus furunculus. Just my .02...

[racoll]

I see no reason to believe that any of the fish pictured are from the Rio Jamanxim. There is not enough spacing between the patterns

How do you mean? To me, fish four looks very similar to Rio Jamanxim fish pictured at http://l-welse.ig-bssw.org/thread-81.html. So they all end up like this when they get old?



Fish four (I took the liberty of rotating and flipping the photo):

[dconnors]

I see no reason to believe that any of the fish pictured are from the Rio Jamanxim. There is not enough spacing between the patterns

How do you mean? To me, fish four looks very similar to Rio Jamanxim fish pictured at http://l-welse.ig-bssw.org/thread-81.html. So they all end up like this when they get old?



Fish four (I took the liberty of rotating and flipping the photo):

IMG_0328.jpg

In a nutshell, yes but not really In the above photos you can see how much smaller and more defined the spotting is in the Jamanxim type. As my regular 134s have aged there spots have also gotten a bit smaller but they have also muddled together a bit. For me another tell tale sign is the dark band behind the head that is not evident in the Jamanxim type but is evident in the fish in this post and also my 134s that I have had for a few years. I will say that I am far from an expert, this is just my opinion and I may well be proven wrong. One of my favorite fish to keep for sure, and I found a male on eggs yesterday morning

[Andypex]

Hi and thanks again for the information so far...... regarding my group, obviously any breeding plans are on hold until i can source a female or 2 to join the group...... (any help or suggestions appreciated )

As far as there being 2 strains of 134.... can anyone point me in the direction of some more information on the separate strains ? and what are everyones thoughts as to the 2 strains being just colour morphs? or actually being separate species/phenotypes etc??

Im no expert but my fish number 4, to my eye looks more like the examples of L134 i have seen and less like the Rio Jamanxim variant pictured. My fish 4 seems to have less 'spots' and more stripes around the head area, as in the stripes seem to be broken to a lesser extent than on the Rio Jamanxim fish and also my fish 4 has definite stripes/bars along its caudal area whereas the rio jamanxim continues with broken bars/spots??
does anyone else have thoughts on this??

Thanks
Andy

[Andypex]

Also, further information that may help....
Fish 1 is approx. 3 years old
Fish 2 is estimated at 7-10 years old
Fish 3, 4 and 5 are thought to be in the region of about 6-8 years old.

Andy

[apistomaster]

Fish #2 looks like a Peckoltia vitta to me. I must have L134 from another location because they do not have the spotted pattern of the Rio Jaximin fish; a variant I have never seen.
I am closing on on the 1000th P. compta I have raised and they all start out with a even banded pattern but as they mature the stripes give way to infinite diverse mixes of stripes and spots. My oldest fish may be up to nine years old.