suggestions 4 smaller pleco that doesn't stay in hiding

[lhenry777]

Hi everyone!!! This is my first "topic" post. I have a Royal Pleco and a Clown Pleco in my 65g. I never get to see either one. Bums me out. Anyone have any suggestions about a pleco that is comfortable being out so I'll get to enjoy him some? And if there is one that is black with white or gold spots and doesn't grow large, that would be my preference. But I know that's probably asking too much. PLEASE any suggestions welcome!!! I LOVE plecos and want to see them once in a while.
Thanks everyone for your time!!!
Lisa

[MatsP]

This is a common and difficult question to answer. It is natural for plecos to hide. Some hide MORE than others, most come out when presented with food - wood eating plecos like Panaque don't tend to go quite as mad for food as some other types of plecos.

Lower lighting levels in the tank and floating plants will make the tank darker, and more suitable for the pleco to come out.

Contrary to the first thought, having MORE hiding spaces will actually make it more likely for the fish to come out.

Larger groups also improve the chances of seeing the fish.

But I can't really say I know of any plecos that "don't hide most of the time" (unless kepts in unsuitable conditions where there are no hiding places). Younger common bristlenoses

Ancistrus cf_cirrhosus

do tend to be visible more than others - but that may just be because I have lots of them, so there's always one or another out to view.

--
Mats

[ceh]

my L201 are models always in the foreground

[lhenry777]

Thank you to you both. I am watching some Orinoco's right now on a bid site. I have lots of hide spots and just added 2 coconut caves yesterday to add to the hide spots for everyone. I tied some Java Ferns to the coconuts so the roots can gro to them eventually. Looks funny with kite string wrapped around the coconut caves.

[apistomaster]

Clown Plecos,

Panaque maccus

, are one of the most reclusive species of plecos I have ever kept. I don't know if any of the usual "tricks" can change their behavior.

The suggestions to keep plecos in larger number and providing them with plenty of cover are the best ways to be able to see at least some of them some of the time.
I haven't kept L201 but I have 7

Hypancistrus contradens

which are another black pleco with off white polka dots, have proven to be as shy as H. zebra which are generally pretty shy.

I consider

Peckoltia compta

to be among the most outgoing small plecos. They often dominate in a mixed species tank of other smaller pleco species. Even this species still hides most of the time.

Sometimes if you keep plecos in species tanks you will get to see them more often or at the other extreme, keeping groups of many species in one tank often makes them all more outgoing. Having other plecos adds an element of competition which can make them less shy especially at feeding time.
In the end, all the plecos are reclusive fishes by nature and it is something we have to come to terms with because fish do not easily change their normal behaviors to those that we may wish to see. The all plecos, mixed species and sizes type of tank is the way I have seen the least amount of hiding and most activity.

[lhenry777]

Your L333's are BEAUTIFUL!!!!! I like the spots but I like stripes too. Probably as much!!!!!!!! I'm still trying to figure out the site so I'll check out the selling page. I think you said your L333's are $25 ea and must be in a group of 6? So $150 and then what's the additional charge for shipping to Lexington Sc zip 29073? I may check with our LFS to see if they would be interested in buying/trading 4 of them because I just won't have room for so many. If they say they will, I may be buying some of your beauties.

[apistomaster]

I appreciate your kind compliments.
They are a pretty pleco and a good next step up from breeding Bushy Nose for those wanting to try breeding something less common.
I sent you a PM.

[lhenry777]

I must be the most ignorant person in the world. I can't see the message. I went to the message page and it says I have a message but there isn't a message. There is a drop down menu that says something about "export this view" but there isn't a message.

[Linus_Cello]

I must be the most ignorant person in the world. I can't see the message. I went to the message page and it says I have a message but there isn't a message. There is a drop down menu that says something about "export this view" but there isn't a message.

Look near the top, next to User Control Panel. It should say "1 new messages;" click on that link.
I ordered 9 L333s from Larry. They came in great shape. I split the order with a fellow fish club friend. Maybe there's someone in the fish club near Lexington KY who would be interested in a few L333s? The are supposedly relatively easy to breed as fancy plecos go.

[apistomaster]

Hi ihenry,
You may be having problems because you are a new member and maybe haven't made enough posts. Some sites PM systems do not kick in until you have made 10 posts; I do not know if planetcatfish works that way but some sites do.
You can review all the information about my plecos by clicking on the "view topic..." link within my signature below. That will take you to all the photos and info regarding my fish.

Hi Linus, thank you for the nice reference.

[lhenry777]

Ok, I use the link and head that way.
Thanks everyone for being so patient.

[Proteus]

I'm not sure about Royals as when I had them they were the average pleco I'll spot everyday in my tank. But the clowns I never see only once in a while.

For the most outgoing plecos- it depends on the species and how many of that species or others you got in that tank- its really the combination as it's never the same in a different tank setup too from my experience. I had some plecos trained to associate me with food and would get bloodworms from the pipettes when I was feeding my old L264 group so I could keep eye on them back then.

[apistomaster]

Like proteus, I have been able to condition groups of plecos to come out more by using operant conditioning using a combination of frozen blood worms as the reward and spending more time with the fish. One is actually trying to condition them to respond with less fear of your presence and overcoming their natural preference for nocturnal feeding by the use of the food reward system.
This method takes a lot of time since the behaviors you want to alter are deeply ingrained instincts. Sometimes it can help to keep other non-threatening fish like Tetras and Apistogramma Dwarf Cichlids with them but I have also had good success when I keep my plecos with my wild Discus. What has worked best for me is when I have kept six to ten of a smaller species of pleco with a single pair of Discus. I did this with 10 wild H. zebra with a pair of wild Blue Discus and that group of H. zebra was the most visible and outgoing in their behavior than any of the other ways or groups of Zebra plecos I have ever tried. I did not use any caves as such but only several pieces of Malaysian Bog Wood for the plecos to use when they wished to hide. I would never attempt this with very small specimens but groups of plecos that are over 2 inches will be willing to adapt to being more active during the day and not hide and starve as would very small Zebra plecos. Zebras are an infamously shy pleco species. If I could get H. zebra to be openly active I figure I can do the same with any other Hypancistrus or Peckoltia species.

Do not try to breed Apistogramma if you keep them with plecos because most plecos will go into their caves and eat the dwarf Cichlid's eggs. I am much more apt to spend more time around my Discus than my pleco tanks for reasons which are probably obvious. One thing to consider about a Discus/pleco community is the fishes diet. I and several of my friends have encountered problems of bloating followed by death among Hypancistrus and Peckoltia when beef heart blends are fed as the main food. These small carnivorous leaning species of plecos do like to eat beef heart based blend frozen food but apparently they have some physiological difficulties with digesting beef heart in the long term. Beef heart blends are popular among Discus keepers but they are not necessary to keep Discus well. I quit using beef heart several years ago but I continue to work with keeping and breeding wild type Discus. Domestic strains of Discus work just as well but they do not interest me any more. I have raised them commercially but maybe because of that I now find their behavior to be boring compared to that of wild Discus. I started out breeding wild Discus over 4 decades ago and basically have returned to where I began.
You can also combine small species of Plecos with Angelfish. I kept many L134 with a group of adult wild Peruvian Scalare and they worked out well too.
More about operant conditioning: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning

[Sam]

My L128 adults are out all the time so is my gold nugget L018, plus my dekeyseria brachyura are always out and they do dissapear when they see me coming towards the tank but then they are back out within two minutes once i'm still - when i had a tank on floorboards i found that they feel you coming a mile off but with concrete flooring now they don't scare any where near as much and I have to admit my panaque maccus are always out the juvenile is especially visible while the adult slightly more reclusive but shows minimum twice a day the juvenile L128 hemiancistrus even comes out but half as much as the other two.
Plecs are just a slight bit cooler than discus in my opinion but discus are a close second though - mind you then there's doradiids and synodontis firmly sharing discus' second place
wonder if i can get my synodontis flavitaneata out with operant conditioning.
ooh better say before I forget I always notice heightened activity when I add rain water, all the fish and shrimp and frogs absolutely love it when I put in at least half a watering can approx 2-3 litres, in my oldest tanks the plecs come out as soon as they hear or feel the water or maybe see the watering can like they've learnt it's nice or something.