Syno Granulosus

doctorzeb · Post by **doctorzeb** » 13 Sep 2003, 10:59

Hi, Just been into Aquatic Rooms in Edinburgh and they have a SYno Granulosus. He was telling me it was worth a fortune i.e Â£400 or so. Not that I could EVER afford to but one, but anyone had one of these before?

cheers

rob

Post by **Dinyar** » 13 Sep 2003, 14:34

Sure, we have one and it is certainly a beautiful and interesting fish. 400 pounds is a rip-off, though; you should be paying more like Â£200.

Dinyar

STINGRAY · Post by **STINGRAY** » 13 Sep 2003, 21:56

Hi there . I have owned a S Granulosus now for over a year, he was in a very bad state when received and had to be nursed back to full health. I would not part with him for less than Â£400 either has they are very expensive to buy in the UK and he is a pet fish (one of the problems when you own a shop is that you end up with a lot of pet fish) . The trade price in the UK is close to what Dinyar is quoting though. How much do they fetch in the States? Any one wishing to buy one of these should seek help first as a lot available are Czech hybrids. Which is unfortunate for the hobby in general.

Post by **Silurus** » 13 Sep 2003, 22:16

How much do they fetch in the States?

About $200 apiece.

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 14 Sep 2003, 08:35

Here in the Netherlands they're 315E, wich is about $346 at the moment.
In Germany they're more expensive AFAIK

Pectorale · Post by **Pectorale** » 15 Sep 2003, 08:21

Still, E 315 is a better price than Â£400 or even Â£200.

Julie · Post by **Julie** » 20 Sep 2003, 12:37

I have seen these fish available at That Fish Place for the past two years. (no.. I never bought any of theirs tho). The price was @$400 two years ago, then dropped down to around $200. Last one I saw was back up, $499 I think.

What someone mentions about the Czech hybrids is interesting. A friend of mine in NY/NJ area saw the supposed F1's available as 1-3" fry for $50. As we own 18 of the wilds ranging in size from 4 to 8 inches, we were interested in observing the growth of these fry, so we had him buy some for us. Their growth rate is phenomenal compared to the wilds, and the coloration at times is totally different, having lost the vivid white outlining of the fins at one point. We often thought that either they were a different variant of the granulosus, or that they even might be a hybrid. Whatever the case, they have been kept separate from our wild stock, and will remain ours unless someone comes in and really wants these fish after having seen them and hearing their history.

Still waiting for the largest adults to do more than just eat and swim around.

ogami*itto · Post by **ogami*itto** » 15 Oct 2003, 19:49

Is anyone aware of the specific technique that is being used with these hybrids? I don' t want to duplicate the process but rather understand the problem with breeding this cat.

I've been noodling this issue for some time now and think that, after consideration of the following the group might come up with some approaches that may assist in legitimate breeding. For example:

Is the female not producing eggs; is the male not producing milt; or is it both?

Who is getting the hormones, male or female.

What is the hybrid's "parental paradygm" -- male granny + female syno sp. (etc.) or female granny + male syno sp.

Just my thoughts on a slow day at the office

Post by **Dinyar** » 15 Oct 2003, 20:42

These are good questions that I too would like to get specific, detailed answers to.

I have a hypothesis as to why they have not been bred naturally in the aquarium, though. I think it comes down in part to aquarium size. Not only are Synodontis granulosus relatively big fish, unlike say S. multipunctatus or S. petricola, S. granulosus is a loner that stakes out its own relatively large range.

When estimating an appropriate tank size for a fish, fish size is of course only one variable. Animals that roam over a large range will not feel happy in confined quarters, as zoos are learning with polar bears, tigers, etc.

Unlike most Synodontis spp., S. granulosus is very aggressive to conspecifics. Like many species, if you put many specimens together in a small tank, aggression is attenuated, but those are not conditions conducive to breeding.

I would start with a large tank of >1000 liters, with very few or no fish other than two adult males and one adult female. That may not be sufficient, but I suspect it may be a necessary condition.

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 16 Oct 2003, 13:23

On hormone reproduction in Synodontis and others, there was a talk given (and perhaps some articles published) by the old Northern Area Catfish Group many years before even I got to know all of them. Allan James would be a good one to ask about it.

Jools

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 16 Oct 2003, 13:40

Dinyar wrote:Sure, we have one and it is certainly a beautiful and interesting fish. 400 pounds is a rip-off, though; you should be paying more like Â£200.

Dinyar

As we know from elsewhere, fish prices vary depending on market conditions. I think this is a case of a species holding its traditional value despite that dropping in other parts of the world. Also, you have to bear in mind that a LFS in Scotland has bought the fish from an importer in the UK who has bought it from a transhipper. I know for a fact the retailer in question paid more for it that $200 for the fish...

The isn't a sufficiently large market for $big$ Synos in the UK it appears. The fish in question was in the shop for several months before I noticed it and, according to shop staff, I was the first customer to know what it was. For these fish to sell at $200 in the UK, you're going to have to be able to sell them reasonably quickly and that isn't going to happen. It's the 4th S. granulosus I've ever seen and only the 2nd in the UK and the 1st in Scotland.

Jools

angel · Post by **angel** » 16 Oct 2003, 14:23

In Maidenhead Aquatics Cardiff branch they have a S. Granulosus for Â£90. It's about 6 inches and has been there for about three months, if anyone wants a bargin

Post by **Dinyar** » 16 Oct 2003, 14:23

African Aquatics is selling very nice granulosus for $175. That's Â£105. AA imports directly from an exporter in Zambia which itself collects and buys from local collectors. So the real reason you are paying so much more for your fish in Scotland is that there are three more layers of middlemen.

Maybe if/when Britain joins the UK, you guys can finally take advantage of mail order fish.

Dinyar

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 16 Oct 2003, 14:26

Good to hear S. ganulosus appearing at lower prices - look forward to more!

Jools

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 16 Oct 2003, 14:27

175$!!
That's "dirtcheap" as granny's go

African aquatics.....they have a setup in Europe too, don't they? Isn't that the one run by the Swedish guys?

I'm tempted, I'm tempted....

Post by **Dinyar** » 16 Oct 2003, 14:36

No, African Aquatics is a high school teacher (like you, Sid) in rural Virginia who has a basement full of Tanganyika fish which he imports directly and sells through the Internet. I suspect that if he factored in the cost of his time, he would be operating his business as a non-profit organization. See http://www.africanaquatics.com.

Dinyar

Julie · Post by **Julie** » 16 Oct 2003, 15:28

African Aquatics is run by a very nice guy in Virginia. I know, I've dealt with him for years! I was present at the receipt of one of his shipments, he had gotten in some granulosus from his exporter and I was picking up those and some other fish. It was a pleasure to meet Pete in person after dealing with him all those years.

As more of these fish become available here, I'd like to keep track if we can of certain things I've noticed about my fish. I have no idea of the collection points of the one that I have, but there appear to be at least two different color patterns involved. One is a very nice gray with the white outline of the fins, and the other is a much darker gray, almost black with the same outlines. There are two different belly colors, too, tan, and a darker tan. At the moment, I can't remember which was which. And of course the whiskers are also different colors. I've never heard nor read of these differences yet.

Anyway, I'd like to hear from others who have this fish as to which *flavors* they have, and the collection points if known... even if only Congo vs Zambia or whatever.

Thanks!

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 16 Oct 2003, 18:31

Too bad, Virginia is a bit too far. With shipping costs and all, it would be just as expenmsive (and a lot more risky!). Better save some money here.

The two patterns intrigue me. If they're from different locations, there maybe well two varieties, wich -looking at the other Tang syno's- isn't that weird.

If they're from similar locations, there might be a sex-difference or an age change involved.
Aga changes happen in Tanganyika: some species have fairly radical changes in pattern and coloration when they mature, Synodontis polli for example.

Genderspecific patterns too happen in several catfishspecies; and a different belly color as a sex-difference happens too; Platydoras, Amblydoras, Orinocodoras to name a few. The Dorads are distandly related to the Syno's, right?

STINGRAY · Post by **STINGRAY** » 16 Oct 2003, 20:45

Angel. Are you able to get a pic of fish or contact for this branch? At this price it is too good to be true, or a hybrid.

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 16 Oct 2003, 20:47

STINGRAY wrote:Angel. Are you able to get a pic of fish or contact for this branch? At this price it is too good to be true, or a hybrid.

Bear in mind many fish cost less than they used to. S. angelicus was more expensive than this at one point in time. Perhaps we should rejoice in the opening up of a new "trade route"...

Jools

STINGRAY · Post by **STINGRAY** » 17 Oct 2003, 20:27

Yes definately. Lets hope this is the start of more of this exclusive variety becoming available.

angel · Post by **angel** » 20 Oct 2003, 11:56

THis is the phone number for Maidenhead aquatics at cardiff. The last time I was there they had the syno, but that was about 3 weeks ago.

(029)20842666

I bought a 1 inch S. Angelicus from there for Â£35, most of the time they tend to be quite expensive but not this time.

Some of the staff cann't tell their a*se from their elbow so you may have to explain what a hybrid is.

Good luck

Syno Granulosus

Syno Granulosus

Eastern Europe Breeding of S. Granulosus