Caves, rocks, $$?

[Sue Foster]

Before I spend good money on rocks is this the size I would need for L129? Says they were sized for zebras, small hypans.

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/ ... 1305923278

The sizing on these ready made caves is kind of surprising me, so tight a fit. Really? I've been reading all the old posts on caves and I don't see how one fish fits let alone 2.

I thought about making them myself but I know I'll never get to it. Still I may stop at the place that sells all sorts of rocks for walkways and walls and see what he has. I may even find enough of the right stuff in his scrap pile.

And what size for the not so fussy bushynose? Their current cave is more a large living room. Not defensible from the cory gang. Both are fat. My female is really fat and last night she spent a good deal of time tickling the males whiskers with her tail. He actually left his food a few times to pay attention to her. Not something Mr Piggy normally does.

[MatsP]

It may be a tad on the small size, but not very much so.

For $23, you can probably buy a 4.5" angle grinder, a stone cutting disc (or 10) and a piece of flooring slate - you may have to add a few dollars for a tube of aquarium silicon. This should make it possible to make SEVERAL caves, and you only need some more slate to make dozens of them.

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Mats

[Sue Foster]

You are right. I shouldn't be so lazy. My husband actually has a tool that can do it somewhere in the barn. I even have a 3' x 2' piece of slate in one of the out buildings. It's thin enough where I could probably score it and break it to the right size.

1/4 inch bigger all around? 1/2?

The 4 I got aren't quite full grown so I have time. They have a dark hiding spot just is way too open for breeding action.

How do they feel about wood caves? I have a serious beaver issue at the back of my property and I spend a lot of time removing waterlogged wood. I could easily make something with some of the logs that I pull. Worst part would be dragging a soaked log back across 20 acres.

[PlecoCrazy]

I would use wood caves only if the species dictated it as they will eventually rot, wood does add debris to the tank, makes the water yellow, and is not necessary for Hypancistrus.

I use the 1.5" D Shaped, Round, and Square caves from Plecocaves.com for most of my Hypancistrus.
The D Shaped IMO seems to work the best for me.

Plus as said by Mats you can easily make some of your own which I have done but I have enough to do without finding time to make caves so I usually order them. If you make them I prefer to use black silicon over the clear to make sure no light gets inside except from the opening.

[2wheelsx2]

It may be a tad on the small size, but not very much so.

For $23, you can probably buy a 4.5" angle grinder, a stone cutting disc (or 10) and a piece of flooring slate - you may have to add a few dollars for a tube of aquarium silicon. This should make it possible to make SEVERAL caves, and you only need some more slate to make dozens of them.

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Mats

I believe the $23 is for 5 caves, which makes them a tad under $5 each...about as cheap as you're going to get.

[MatsP]

I believe the $23 is for 5 caves, which makes them a tad under $5 each...about as cheap as you're going to get.

Ah, good point. That is a much better price. So if that remains for the rest of the auction, it is indeed not at all bad.

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Mats

[Sue Foster]

Stopped at the landscaping rock place. Got 2 piles of pieces like this for $1.
There is granite, bluestone and slate. He had all kinds of scraps from making more artistic things.

Pretty much all I have to do now it piece things together and glue.

[vanillarum]

Hey Sue, My current zebra caves are a bit smaller than the ones pictured, although I do have some larger ones in the tank. In fact, I just ordered 6 of those caves from David (Texasholeyrock). I have bought triangular caves from him in the past and he really does a nice job. He will also make caves any size you would like at no extra charge. Good luck.

[apistomaster]

For common Bushy nose Plecos you can make a cave they will use for breeding out of two four inch clay flower pot drain dishes. Just cut a notch in one drain pan's edge and then stack them so the top one is upside down. I have just used a couple rubber bands to hold the two dishes edges in alignment but a dab of silicone sealant or 5 minute epoxy makes a more permanent design.
Other plecos may avail themselves to use this type of cave but I have never tried one. I use rectangular caves made from ceramic floor tiles with Faux stone finishes and glue the pieces together with silicone sealant.
I also bought a dozen custom made, terra cotta caves produced by a friend who makes Discus breeding cones. They are very similar to the home made caves with a "D" shaped cross section like those described by previous posters. 12 caves plus a six of her experimental attempts cost me $72 including postage. So I actually received about 18 caves for the price of 12. It worked out to only $4.00 each.
Usually if one pleco can enter a cave then it is large enough for a pair to spawn in. I often wonder how the two manage to get inside but they some how do. Most plecos prefer a restricted, confined cave. This makes it easier for the male to confine the female until she has spawned. After spawning has been completed and the female is driven out, then the male is able to completely block the cave with it's body. This keeps potential predators out and makes it easier for the male to corral the fry until they are ready to leave the cave.
I think it is good practice to provide a range of different sizes of caves so the fish can choose the cave they instinctively know is of a suitable size for spawning.

[Sue Foster]

I'll use my rock pile for Mr. Piggy and his harem. They won't be so critical of design flaws and buy a few ready made ones for the others. Now to figure out if I want the boxy slate ones or ones cut into river rock. Do the fish care? My tanks tend to be heavily planted so little of it is actually going to be seen.

Some wood lasts a long time. I have a piece of mopani root wood in a ten gallon tank that is over 20 years old. Isn't squishy yet.

I have pulled some stumps out of my beaver pond that were at least early 1980's. I can tell because there are remnants of barbed wire fencing on them and that's the last time cattle were kept here.

I do see signs on some softer pieces of wood that the BN are rasping away a bit. They were just small bits that I was trying to make look more like roots coming from a larger mopani burl. No chew marks on the harder burl. They all eventually run out of tannins to leach. My property is surrounded on 3 sides by water. Driftwood is mostly free. Gets squishy and into the wood stove it goes.

[MatsP]

I doubt fish care whether the caves are slate or some other stone. Most fish don't care what the material is at all, but some prefer wood, others prefer rock, others plastic, etc. Give the fish a choice of sizes and materials, and the fish will decide what they like...

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Mats

[dkimtonf]

I've used terra cotta flower pots with holes in them. Put them on the side, and put a big rock behind the hole. I've had ABN spawn in this. Then when they turn into wigglers, I put my finger to block the hole, and then use a small fry net to get dad out. This can be hard. I then have a cup of aquarium water ready for the next step. I release my finger over a breeder net box and release them. any that are still stuck I rinse slowly with the cup. I've saved maybe 90% of my fry this way.

[joefish72b]

Sue,
I make the ones that are cut into river rock and the only reason you would want to buy them is to keep a more natural look. There are plenty of different ways to make your own caves. Just about anything could work as long as the fish choose to use it and there are plenty of other proven caves.

A simple way is to lay pieces of slate on top of each other like a brick wall. Then slide a few pieces apart to create different openings. Stand one piece of slate along the back so only the front side is open and you are in business.

At one of the importers I know, he uses plain PVC pipe as a place for the fish to hide. Not sure if they would use it for breeding but I guess it's worth a shot.

Try a search on this site there have been some nice DIY designs put to use.