Emerald Catfish in a tiny tank?

[Anthonyck]

I realize that my 5.5gal tank is not good for much. With that said, I used the adv search and entered the water parameters, and it returned that the Brochis splendins was my best bet. Would three of these guys do alright in said tank, with shrimp and snails as tank mates? This sits on my desk in my office, and the rasboras and pistellas in there are just not comfortable. I love corydoras, and these guys seem pretty close in behavior and such, so I would be pleased if they are a possible fit. If they outgrow their surroundings, I can move them to my larger tank.

Thanks,
Anthony

[racoll]

Hi Anthony,

I would say no, the tank is certainly not suitable for

Brochis

, as they are quite bulky fish, and will need much more room than what is essentially a large bucket of water.

I keep a similar sized tank with a few Boraras, Pangio and

Otocinclus

, and it works very well. I would not recommend anything but the smallest fishes, really.

You might find that

Corydoras pygmaeus

would work, though.

Hope this helps.

[Anthonyck]

Thanks!

That's very helpful. I believe my preferred LFS has pygmies, so that might work out well. However, I am having a hard time finding Otos, believe it or not, other than Petco and another store I would rather not patronize. I will wait a few weeks at least on them no matter what, as I uave no algae at all yet in this very young tank, and I think I will add some more plants as well.

What quantities of each would you recommend?

[racoll]

What quantities of each would you recommend?

Maybe eight

Corydoras pygmaeus

, and say a trio of

Otocinclus

would work nicely along with shrimp and snails.

[Anthonyck]

Thanks. That sounds really great. I don't know that I want to "baseline" the tank to change the substrate at this point, so I am stuck with gravel. My pH is a bit high, at about 7.5, and this tanks runs on the warm side, near 80F. Is there anything I should do or add prior to introducing these guys? Should I do a pair, and then add the rest, or all at once?

I have bacopa growing (I think) and a bamboo plant currently. Is there a plant better suited for these guys that stays compact that I could add to break up the light?

I have a slate/stone cave that should accommodate both of these species nicely also.

I really appreciate the help.

[racoll]

Your pH is fine so don't worry about that. You should only worry about pH for blackwater species.

Temperature wise, the corys will prefer it cooler and the otos warmer, but about 77F should be fine for them both.

I would definitely include sand in the tank rather than gravel (sand is bad for corys). The easiest plant to grow on some driftwood is java fern and java moss. A few floating plants like Riccia or Indian fern (Ceratopteris) is also nice. Then you don't have to worry about rooting plants in a deep substrate.

I'll post up a pic of my office tank soon, and you can see what I've done with mine.

[catmar]

I don't post here often but here I feel I need to (and I hope I have understood correctly). 5.5 Us Gallons=20 litres of water, UK Gallons=25 litres of water. Take out some volume for substrate/decor and perhaps at worst this gives water volume of 15 Litres/best 20? I would not keep anything other than Shrimp in this volume. IMO.

[Anthonyck]

Despite being running for a month or more, this tiny tank just does not seem stable. The pair or mystery snails are growing like champs, but the fish in there now are just stressed and continue to have fin problems, and I lost my first shrimp. I am considering putting one of the more durable goldfish in there and adding a sack of mature bacteria-laden gravel from my other tank, to help it stabilize. I can't risk new fish in there yet, and I think I will continue to have these challenges with such a small tank.

That said, I managed to get a complete (yet utterly filthy ) 20 gal setup with a Bio-Wheel and stand for $40. I set it up this weekend, and added clay below the substrate, so that it will accommodate being heavily planted once I have some yummy nitrates established. I went with the very small, rounded gravel for the substrate, as I think I lack the patience for sand and really wanted to plant heavily in this tank. I got the clay idea fro theplantedtank.com and also the guys at the LFS.

Knowing everyone's position on the substrate, are the more bulky brochis better suited for this tank then? Is the clay-based "cloudiness" a concern for any species?

[MatsP]

Sounds like a good upgrade - and yes, tiny tanks can be quite unstable.

I'd have thought that sand was easier to care for than "clay under gravel". But I'd expect there to be little difference between medium-sized corydoras and common

Brochis splendens

.

--
Mats

[Anthonyck]

Mats,

The clay idea was not one made with respect to upkeep, so any thoughts you have on the subject would be welcomed. The argument against sand was mostly regarding the types of plants I want and also the concern of burning out filters too quickly. I think I may be giving sand a shot on the small tank. I figure the more water the better, so pulling gravel out of a tank that isn't supporting anything well besides snails can't hurt much. If I can keep that stable with donor water and sacks of gravel, then maybe I move forward and try some small fish. Worst case, I make it a shrimp and snail tank, which is still pretty neat on a desk.

[MatsP]

Touch wood, but none of my filters have burned out in the 5 years I've had sand in my tanks... And I have plants in my tanks - but I don't do "planted tanks", as I prefer to set tanks up with fish in mind.

--
Mats

[apistomaster]

I can highly recommend the plant substrate, FloraBase. It is attractive and gentle for burrowing fishes to work.
You can use small Cryptocoryne species if you have fairly low illumination. With a bit more Echinodorus tenellus AKA Pygmy Chain Swords do very well. They grow via runners like strawberry plants. Periodically you have to remove some to keep it growing as ground cover. A nice center piece for this tank is E. bleheri var. "Compacta" as it never grows too tall for your tank. A very small piece of drift wood with Java Moss attached would add contrast and interest. One 10 watt screw in 6700K compact fluorescent will produce enough light to support all the plants I mention.

Very few catfish are suited for small tanks but one planted per above would supports a trio or so of Otocinclus and 6 Corydoras pygmeus but only because they are very common. I think C. habrosus is a better choice, personally.
All but Java Moss are SA plants while Java Moss originates from SE Asia but I would not be concerned if you want a biotope tank.
Other fish well suited for this tank are Nannostomus marginatus Striped Dwarf Pencilfish, Ember Tetras, Hyphessobrycon amandae and Green Neons, Paracheirodon simulans. You could keep 5 each Green Neons and Ember Tetras or any assortment of these Characins that does not add up to more than 12 fish. All of these fish reach no more than about 1" and Ember Tetras rarely reach that except the larger females.

If you prefer SE Asian theme then racoll gave you great suggestions. Boraras maculata are so small(5/8" males and 3/4" for females). you could easily keep 16 of these lovely fish and the catfish already mentioned. Not very many small tropical catfish that are suitable are available from SE Asia. Pangio Loaches(Kuhlii Loaches) fill the same nich as Corydoras. I would recommend keeping cherry shrimp as algae eaters especially if you grow Java Moss as they work all the hard to reach places. You may simply scrape algae from the front glass or adopt Otocinclus even though they don't come from this area.

It really sounds like your tank is still cycling and it doesn't much matter which hardy fish you use to help establish the biological filter. Remove them before you finish planting and stocking the tank. Guppies would be a good choice to help you establish the tank prior to completing the theme you finally decide upon.
Now is when you should remove any substrate and replace it with FloraBase. It is too expensive to use in large tanks and I use it as aquarium plant potting material but for a small tank it is perfect substrate.

I just set up my 125 gal tank as a planted SA Tetra and small Catfish tank and have been having a blast. I have been breeding fish to sell and had lost touch with just keeping fish for purely my enjoyment. No ulterior motives like raising Discus breeders and my friends can hardly believe it. I stocked it with 25 Nannostomus eques Pencilfish, 100 Green Neons, 25 Otocinclus, 6 Farlowella species and 6 Characidium Darter Tetras. I also moved my last 10 Black Morpho Darter Tetras, Poeciliocharax weitzmani into the new display tank but they are rarely seen as they are naturally a very reclusive species. I will finish the stocking when I have 2 dozen Silver Hatchetfish and a few Chilodus punctatus, Spotted head Standers. I'll probably end up adding a couple trios of Lyretail Checkerboard Cichlids, Dicrossus filamentosus. a very fine and pretty SA Dwarf Cichlid which is rarely very expensive.

[racoll]

Good advice from Apistomaster there ^^

I don't post here often but here I feel I need to (and I hope I have understood correctly). I would not keep anything other than Shrimp in this volume. IMO.

I agree it's borderline, but having been running a similar sized tank (a 12" cube) for a couple of years, I have been very pleased with it. I only have a light stock of the smallest fishes (Boraras, Pangio), and it's heavily planted. I personally see no problems - fish are healthy, active and colourful.

On the issue of stability, yes, these small tanks can be more tricky. They need good filtration and a keen eye on water quality.

Anthonyck, has the tank been set up recently? That could explain the problems, or perhaps it's overstocked and the filter isn't able to cope?

[Anthonyck]

Thanks for the advice and time devoted to helping me out. I really appreciate it.

Here's "where I'm at":

5.5 gal - Housing 5 (3 x Harlequin Rasboras and 2 x Pristella maxillaris) VERY nervous and stressed little fish, plus a pair of active and healthy mystery snails. Had some ghost shrimp in there, but I think one went rogue and killed the others. I will find out soon if he's still around. I am using large, unrounded commercial black gravel substrate at the moment. I have bacopa and a bamboo plant growing. I have a Whisper PF10 filter, which seemed to be WAY too much current for the delicate rasboras, so I attached a gaudy filter sponge to the intake to slow it down, which worked. The PF10 no longer has an adjustment valve on it. I have a cave large enough to accommodate these fish in there. The lighting is not aquarium lighting. It is very similar to this:
http://www.ottlite.com/p-241-the-learni ... black.aspx
...with a 13w "full spectrum" bulb. I don't know if this is the cause of the stress or not. I do not have a proper hood light for this tank.
My plans for this tank, I think, are:
1) Pull out the black gravel and replace with some variety of sand or planted substrate (can't find FloraBase yet)
2) Add more plants and maybe cherry shrimp and rabbit snails (very pricey though)
3) MAYBE one of the corydoras mentioned in this thread

20 gal - Just set up this week. I have a sack of donor gravel each in the filter and the tank. I start with 50/50 distilled water and conditioned tap water with the Stress-Coat brand of bio supplement. After a day, I changed out about 8 gal of that with donor water from my larger tank. The tank has no occupants at the moment. The clay and small gravel (rounded, 2-3mm pebbles) are gonna stay. I have a large assortment of natural stones to fashion hiding spots, and bit the bullet and a sizable Malaysian bogwood specimen last night, which I have rinsed and soaked all night. That will host some Java fern once the water is ready. I will do some aquascaping over the next two days, and then plan to add either or both, the little fish from the small tank, and 3 x 3" goldfish from my larger tank, temporarily to condition the water further. If the larger brochis splendens can tolerate this substrate, I may go this route. I am also considering doing synodontis multipunctata and appropriate tank mates in this, or even go the route of pimelodella pictus. I really have not decided. I know that, for the moment, I have zero interest in African Cic's. I am trying to make keeping fish beneficial for my stress levels, and watching fish tear each other to shreds is way outside my current tolerance level. I am also less than interested in the apparent fragility of the rasboras and tetras I have had in this little tank, though I am sure that's been a product of my own mistakes. I like catfish, and catfish are my focus.

With that out of the way, I am open to suggestions. Thank you again. I also understand if this gets bumped out of this forum category.

[racoll]

The nervousness of your current fishes I think is caused by a number of reasons:

First off, I think the tetras are too large for the tank, and should be moved.

Second, the harlequins should be kept in a shoal larger than three. Most gregarious species such as these are quite uncomfortable in groups less than eight or so.

Thirdly, your aquascape will have a big impact on how your fish behave. It's hard to get an impression of your setup, but posting a picture will help us tell you where you can improve.

As promised, I'll try and get a shot of my "nano" tank (as soon as I remember to bring my camera into work!).

[Anthonyck]

Thanks.

Here is the 5.5 gal, as of today:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kozadinos/ ... hotostream#

...notice the monster mystery snail, who has been far and away the most healthy inhabitant of this tank to date. The rasboras and pristellas have been moved the the 20 gal, which has its own drama in another thread - but - I am not excluding the idea of making that more of a community tank, and going the route of the brochis splendens in there. I would still welcome opposing arguments in that regard.

As far as this little tank's future, I am leaning toward a group of otocinclus, and additional snail species plus (maybe) red cherry shrimp. Is this a better fit? I may add a stout leafy plant as well for them.

[plecomanpat]

Hi anthonyck,give me a pm maybe I can turn you on to a good LFS with knowledgable staff that could make things easier on you.A couple of local stores are owned by friends of mine.