Possible peppermint cats

MC · Post by MC » 28 Sep 2003, 15:07

Hello fellow catfish friends and fanatics

Now these fish were labelled as Peppermint, but I have had some advice to the contrary. The adult fish look exactly like the ones in the following thread.

http://www.forum.planetcatfish.com/viewtopic.php?t=2352

Chances are the fish are the exact same species as the ones in the other link.

As juvis, some have a white seam on their tail, others lake the seam. I have also noticed that this species has the spots on its eyes (not the lens or eyeball) but eyelid (for lack of a better word)

Anyway I would appreciate any ideas or input with regard to an appropriate L number.

Regards,

MC

Post by **Silurus** » 28 Sep 2003, 15:26

L327? Though your fish seem more densely-spotted.

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 28 Sep 2003, 18:25

Silurus wrote:L327? Though your fish seem more densely-spotted.

A feature of L327 (and L184 which would be my guess) are the translucent unpaired fins. I can't see from the first pic if these are present or not. Same fish different rivers?

Any chance of a few more pics in the aquarium?

Jools

MC · Post by MC » 29 Sep 2003, 06:07

More pics, OK, I'll try and get some more

These guys don't like light, but I'll see what I can do.

Thanks for the replies and the interest.

Someone else suggested L184 but the spots seem more dense on mine, then the pictures I have compared them to.

I am almost certain that the unpaired fins are in fact solid, not translucent

I must also add that as the fish grows the spots definitely reduce in size, as you would have seen in the link I provided. I am almost certain that the other persons catfish are the same. There are only 2 breeders in Perth.

So now, I'm off to try and get some pictures for you

Edit: here are some pics, of the juvi's

Thanx again for your responses.

MC · Post by MC » 29 Sep 2003, 12:30

OK, sorry to double post.

Here are the pics of my larger specimen they are not that good and may not be of much help. I am not overly confident in handling him, so for now this is the best I can do.

Unfortunately he deosn't flare his dorsal fin very often.

I took a picture of his flared tail

Note the lack of white seam. This fish started off with a white seam, only on the tail.

Thanks again.

Post by **Silurus** » 29 Sep 2003, 12:38

Is it my eyes, or did the spots grow smaller?
Now it just looks like L182.

MC · Post by MC » 29 Sep 2003, 12:48

My apologies, the juvenile fish exhibit those remarkable spots, and as the fish grows the spots become less intense and smaller.

The 3 fish in the bag are no longer then 1 1/2" inches SL (do we use SL to measure catfish),

The larger fish is at least 4" SL and 9 months older.

They are definitely the same species.

Post by **Silurus** » 29 Sep 2003, 12:53

I'm more inclined to think it's L182, now. Haven't seen the color pattern on very young fish, so I'm not 100% sure.

Yann · Post by **Yann** » 29 Sep 2003, 20:31

Hi!

The first set of pic made me think at L181.
THe last set of pics made me think at L71!
The big problem with these Ancistrus is that many species have such colour pattern.
And these pattern seems to change a lot depending of many things making ID even worst.
If you could have an information such as which exportator sold that fish and what country it is base... it will sort of shorten the list of the possible id...
But basically it is impossible to give a accruate ID without any info.
If you could make a beely shot that also could help on the shortening of the list of the possible id!
Cheers
Yann

Post by **Barbie** » 29 Sep 2003, 20:50

MC didn't list his location in his profile *gets out the guppy cannon*

He's in Australia, where the few different types of plecos they have available are almost always captive spawned.

The L182 that I had, had more of an ivory almost gold dots than white, with little cream tips on their fins, no edging, at 3 inches. I currently have a good number of starry night ancistrus with definite white fin edging that I also have no definite ID for though. Shane mentioned that I probably never would. It sure makes it frustrating when you can't possibly figure out what the exact collection point was.

Barbie

general-sherman · Post by **general-sherman** » 30 Sep 2003, 02:25

if you're in australia then you have "ancistrus sp. cf. hoplogenys" called peppermint catfish here. the ones in australia are L059a in the aqualog. the a is very important because ours are different from L059. L059a the spots are larger and they have a white seam on the unpaired fins when they're juvenile, when they grow up the spots are smaller but still very bright. an adult L059a should look like it has irridescent white spot.
they always remain jet black.
L059 when adult the spots seem to fade and the black fades to almost grey, i could be wrong because i've only ever seen pictures of these. to the best of my knowledge they're not in australia.

the third lot of pics (it might be the quality), i have no idea what the larger specimen is...it could be a. hoplogenys but i'd need a better look. in all honesty it doesn't look like one...a really dark ancistrus temmincki L181? they're the only other ancistrus species common here.

MC · Post by MC » 30 Sep 2003, 02:40

Barbie, you know I have a good defence against that thing

Thankyou all for taking the time out to respond.

I will attempt to get some pictures of the underbelly and the mouth.

While I may not be able to get an exact ID, I would like to narrow it down to at least something close.

The pictures of the larger specimen, the dots actually appear to be more of a silvery colour. I'll see what I can do about getting some better quality pictures. My camera distorts the colour as the water is tannin stained.

A beautiful species, this fish is black with fine white spots all over its body. Every leading fin ray is rusty orange.
Aqualog shows many pictures labelled L059 and L059a and L059b. None of these match DATZ. Aqualog photo supplement 4 shows L059c which IS the same as the DATZ L059.

I just grabbed this from the L059 page. Does the L059a have the same rusty orange leading fin ray? or will this be absent in tank raised individuals?

general-sherman · Post by **general-sherman** » 30 Sep 2003, 16:47

hmmm, actually never looked under L059 on this site so that was an eye opener. the peppermint catfish in australia is definently ancistrus hoplogenys. it appears the L059 lno is incorrect...interesting. the "rusty orange on leading fin rays" makes me think of the ancistrus sp. incorrectly sold under the name "ancistrus leucostictus" (or orange-spot bristlenose) in australia.

MollyMan · Post by **MollyMan** » 01 Oct 2003, 06:44

110% certain your little ones are Hoplogenys...

If you want you can cross reference from my pics (all angles, underneath - belly shots, side, above, etc...)

My Peppermint BN Photos (Ancistrus Hoplogenys)

http://www.mollyman.com/phpBB2/album_cat.php?cat_id=6

here is a sample of one that looks a similar size to what you have, still with the white flaring on the Dorsal and Caudal finnage...

...as for the larger specimen??? doesnt look like an Hoplogenys, but a better photo will help determine that further.

HTH

Yann · Post by **Yann** » 01 Oct 2003, 17:42

general-sherman wrote: in all honesty it doesn't look like one...a really dark ancistrus temmincki L181? they're the only other ancistrus species common here.

Hi!
Aqualog show a A. temmincki that has nothing to do with the original pic (once again)
The true L181 presented in Datz is a "black" species with white spots, but compare to other species, this one have white spots on the eye as well. It also pocess a very thin white seam on the caudal fin.

The reason I doubt it is A. hoplogenys, is because according Sonia Fish-Muller, A. hoplogenys has orange spot as well. A bit like L59 ( the real one)

Your fish has a little white fin margin but regarding the size there is a good chance for it to disapear or be very thin to almost inexistant when they will grow bigger.

Cheers
Yann

MC · Post by MC » 02 Oct 2003, 03:01

Yann wrote:Your fish has a little white fin margin but regarding the size there is a good chance for it to disapear or be very thin to almost inexistant when they will grow bigger.

Yes, you are correct. As I stated before, the white seam, only exists on the caudal fin, of the juvenile specimens. Yes also to the white seem becoming extremely thin or non-existent on the adult fish.

So, unfortunately Mollyman, your ancistrus are different to mine(mine lack a white seam on the dorsal fin), and I cannot use your fish as a reference point.

Thanks for trying.

If you refer to the linked thread in my very first post, you can see what the adult specimens grow to look like. Those photos are much better then my own picture.
[/quote]

MollyMan · Post by **MollyMan** » 02 Oct 2003, 06:33

mc, some of the cats I have do have the white seam on both the caudal & dorsal fins, but I have a few that only have the seam on the caudal fin, and they are from the same batch... mind you, when they were just over an inch, they all had the white on both, but as they go past the 3 inch mark, some have lost the markings, some have them as bright as day 1...

sorry to throw a spanner in the works...

MC · Post by MC » 14 Oct 2003, 15:05

Four score and twenty years ago...oops wrong forum.

Ok I have some additional pictures they are hard to get, and I am not confident in handling my catfish.

Mouth, probably not clear enough to identify what you may be looking for

Another picture of my large male - (my apologies for the darkness of the picture)

Until i can borrow a better "Close-up" camera this is the best i can do.

Yann · Post by **Yann** » 14 Oct 2003, 17:44

Hi
Well for sure it is an Ancistrus, typical dentition (from what I can see) and typical tentacule forehead grow for the male.
I still think it can be a L180 or L181 or L182...
L180 and L182 have a dark belly with small white spot.
L180 has spot on the eye which lack L182
L181 has spots on the eye as well but have not seen the belly yet...
L181 comes from the Rio TÃ©fÃ©
L180 comes from the RIo Tocantins
L182 comes from the Rio Branco
Cheers
Yann

00 MooRRii 00 · Post by **00 MooRRii 00** » 15 Oct 2003, 14:30

MC- Good to see someone else from Perth on planetcatfish. Regarding breeders- I can assure you their are atleast 6 if not more (not including myself) that are breeding or have previously spawned these catfish, but are some how maintaining a decent price.

I have just had my first spawn, from my 4yo female and 1.5yo male. Hope the eggs are viable. Where did you purchase yours if you don't mind me asking? I work at Midland pet and aquariums center and supply the owner with many exotics.

Alex

MC · Post by MC » 15 Oct 2003, 14:42

Hi Alex,

I purchased mine from Aquotix (Canning Vale). They told me that they get there fish from 1 of 2 breeders. 1 is north of the river, and the other south.

I reckon they are pretty cool.

00 MooRRii 00 · Post by **00 MooRRii 00** » 16 Oct 2003, 00:22

Aquotix is a good store but their are certainly more then 2 breeders of these catfish in Perth.

Good luck with them, come in to Midland on a sunday and have a chat...

are their any other exotics you are interested in?

Caol_ila · Post by **Caol_ila** » 16 Oct 2003, 01:56

Hi!

I wonna add something that has just been published very recently by Ingo Seidel on a german website:
After reviewing documents of Ancistrus for his Welsatlas bd.2 he has "found out" that the true A.dolichopterus is L183 which immediately came to my mind when i saw the 8 dorsal fin rays. So the fish you call A.hoplogenys actually is none if i remeber right the wrongly adressed name belongs to a brown fish with spotted belly.
So if i got Seidel right this fish should be called A.dolichopterus.

On a german site this pic is shown for L183

Alan_au · Post by **Alan_au** » 22 Jan 2004, 06:24

Hello Yann,

If you have time could you please have a look at this site. There is a stack of pics of adult, fry and juviniles of the "peppermint" bristle nose we are breeding here in Australia. Even a couple of short vidios.

Then you might give us an opinion of what they are.

http://pub79.ezboard.com/fperthcichlidsocietyfrm5

Thanks

Alan

Yann · Post by **Yann** » 22 Jan 2004, 22:11

HI !

I did found the fry to be very similar to the Ancistrus dolichopterus (L183).
But I also found the adult a bit different...
Do you have belly shots?
Again without exact catching locality, it is a bit tricky to stop on a ID especially with so many Ancistrus species that have similar body pattern...
Cheers
Yann

Possible peppermint cats

Possible peppermint cats

ancistrus sp.

ancistrus sp.

Re: ancistrus sp.

breeders

aquotix