13+ year old l14(long lived?)

[fishtales]

i had a l14 for 13+ years(it passed away). it was 5" when i got it. i do not know how old it could have been when i got it. perhaps someone here does. i hope that was a long life.

[MatsP]

I would thnk that a 5" wild-caught fish is between 1 and 2 years old - in nature these fish grow quite quickly. In nature, I'm pretty sure many of these fish don't live for 13 years. We don't have much statistic of how long these live in captivity - but 13 years is probably around what you'd can expect. Good care, and they may live a little longer, but I also reccon a good number of keepers loose their fish before that age.

The life-span in aquarium is difficult to determine - we do keep statistics in our "my cats" and "my aquaria", but that feature is fairly young, so we don't have enoughs statistics to give us good data on expected life-span.

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Mats

[fishtales]

thanks. so i can assume he was something over 14/15 years. when i read sites that say 25 years i figure few of them make it that long.

i had a question without starting another thread. shortly after that one died i got a l136b that is about 1 1/2". i assume that is fry. i understand they grow more rapidly at that age. how long should it take to get to 4"? i know there is not a lot of data on growth either.

[MatsP]

Right, so it's a bit like saying "Humans live to around 80 years old on average" - well, the truth is that humans live between 0 and about 115 years. Averages are pretty meaningless without more information indicating the variation from average - my father once said that "If you stand with one foot in a bucket of ice (-18'C) and the other in a bucket of boiling water (100'C), the average temperature of your feet is ((-18 + 100) / 2) = 41'C - so pretty comfortable". Now try telling your feet that...

Hypancistrus sp(L136)

, like most Hypancistrus species do not grow very quickly (at least not in captivity).

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Mats

[fishtales]

i am not happy the l136b grows slowly. it is in a very large tank. i know where it is though.
the thing is it was all i could get. the lfs's here have almost nothing. of that it is all fry. i do not know if it is the ban or what. i was told by 17 different stores they could not get a l18. a few years ago it was not hard to get a l46. they were not even the kind of money they are now. even though they were still not cheap back then. in 2009 i got a l260 that was 6" when i got it. i got a l264 a few years before that. they were not very expensive either. so i just took the tiny l136b. there is a 7" rio atabapo. the thing is i am positive that is not what it is. i actually like it even though i can not identify it. i'd be afraid of too many of them now but since the l136b is not going to get big anytime soon i might get that one while i still can. it looks like it is near the end of getting them locally. i like to have 10 gallons per fish but i suppose the 1-1/2" l136b does not really count towards that. i actually have more than 10 gallons per fish so i suppose i should take that one while i can. it seems to be the last pl*co bigger than 2" other than internet/shipping. i really wanted something very fancy/rare for the loss of the l14. there is nothing to be had though locally. i have l46's and and other rare ones so it does not really matter. i wish i knew what that supposed atabapo was. i hope to get a pic so maybe you guys can identify it.

as for lifespan. i guess thats true. sometimes infants die and some people live to be 105.
i have lost fish in less than a year and my oldest (a discus) i have had for almost 30 years!
i was sort of more interested as to why the l14 died. i will never know. i'd like to think it was old age and not a mistake. when a fish lives more than 10 years i seem to become much more attached to it.

[MatsP]

Yeah, the availability of certain fish in certain places is always a bit of a problem. I live near London, so there are quite a few good fish-shops around. But they are far from "nearby". My favourite shop is Pier Aquatics in Wigan (and when there, I'd also usually visit a couple of other places in that region), at the other end of the country [remember, this is England, a relatively small country] some 230 miles away. There is a really good shop only 45 minutes walk from where I work, called Wholesale Tropicals, but I never seem to get time to go there - if it wasn't for the River Thames, I'm sure we could cut about 15 minutes off that walking time by taking a more direct route - but the bridges means you have to go in "squares". About 50 miles drive from where I live is the Wildwoods, and about 70 miles away is Maidenhead Aquatics @ Oxford (actually in Wheatley, a small village outside Oxford).

But I'm lucky in that I live in a densely populated part of the country, with plenty of choices.

Export prohibition in Brazil is certainly one part of the problem. The general state of finances may be another - shops just aren't that keen on having large amounts of stock. L14 is actually allowed for export, so should be possible to get. Gold nuggets are also on the allowed list.

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Mats

[fishtales]

it might be the economy. these were never cheap fish. there are over 20 "fancy" fish stores within 50 miles of me. none of them have anything. they also claim not to be able to get anything right now. all these stores used to have very good stock. sometimes i could find three stores with l46 within a few blocks of each other. it is very strange that none of them can even get l14 right now. i suppose there is some reason for this but they have been vague about it.

[MatsP]

If you want suggestions on where to find good fish, it may help if you give a tad more detail about where you live - USA is a very big place... ;) Go to User Control Panel -> User Profile -> Location - a state is really helpful, and more detail (like which city) is even better.

But what you describe is definitely similar here: you go into a shop that used to carry a dozen or more species of exotic plecos, and now they have three or five much less exotic ones. I think there are MANY reasons that "conspire together" to arrive at this - part of it may well be that the Brazil export rules have moved the importers to use other exporters, which reduces the available species. But my nearest shop have small L18 (or L81?) in stock at the moment - and around $25 each not a silly price either.

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Mats

[Cristoffer Forssander]

I have a L240 female. I purchased her in 2001 and she was 15 cm + at the time.
Now she is around 28 cm and still producing a lot off eggs!

Seemes that she have a loong way left befor she becomes too old.

A fish over 13 yeras is amazing! L14 is an stunning fish!


Cristoffer

[fishtales]

thanks guys. lfs got a l18 today but it is only 3". price is fair. there is little selection and almost nothing larger than 4". i am in chicago. so including the suburbs there are many stores that used to carry nice fish. there used to be a store that had maybe 40 l-numbers on any day! they went out of business a few years ago.

i am glad you think my l14 lived long. i wonder if something happened i could have prevented. i guess i will never know. i have lost pl*co's in less than a year before due to fighting or a lot of other things. i suppose the fish actually being 15 or more was pretty good. like you guys said the 25 is not "average". that must be like a human living to 105. i wish we knew pl*co years like we know dog years. i mean if that fish was almost 90 in human years i'd feel it had a good life. i have a queen arabesque since 2001 as well but it is a male. i think that is the one i have kept the second longest after the l14 now. i do not know if it is my oldest though. i am kind of bummed i replaced a a foot long fish with a 2" fish. i don't want to get another because obviously the l136 will grow eventually. it is nice looking. i can't get a pic because it is hidden in back. at least i know where it is.

[Maccus]

when a fish lives more than 10 years i seem to become much more attached to it.

Me too.

[fishtales]

if anyone is still interested in this thread.....

i do not know why this dawned on me after this long. i think there was foul play at hand. being so old he was probably not the strongest. you know what happens to the weak in nature. another one that lived with him for nine years was also a foot plus long. three weeks before his demise the other one had claimed the cave he had always lived in. he was forced to another hiding spot. then a few days after that he was chased onto the glass. you know large ones hardly ever go on the glass. i find they will do this if highly stressed or with bad water quality(which is not the case here). he continued to live peacefully in his new cave and not on the glass. three weeks plus passed with no incedent. the other one was no longer bothering him. then i saw the other one in the same cave with him right next to him(his original cave). i suppose he tried to reclaim his cave and that must have been what this was about. i soon realised he had passed on.
the only thing at all wrong with his corpse(externally, no autopsy) was his tail fin was split a little in one place. it had not been hours earlier. i do not know why it took me this long to figure out he was most likely murdered. you know darwin and all. i do not know how the actual killing took place with no wounds. maybe he was just so old with that much stress he threw in the towel. other than sort of playing almighty when we stock an aquarium i suppose nature took it's course. this saddens me because who knows how long he might have lived. it is odd that if i lose a pet in a short time i'd say i am "mad". if after a very long time i am of course quite sad. i guess there was nothing i could have done to prevent it. the other one did not bother him in the nine years they lived together. i know fighting amongst them is a problem but i had no reason to expect this.

since my new one is so tiny i thought i'd get another tiny one. they do grow so i just don't want to press my luck. i am not even close to overstocked but i am afraid i learned a hard lesson with these fish. i have read of them attacking each other many times.

i am sorry for such a long post. i just felt dumbfounded that i did not realise what probably happened. from what i describe am i most likely correct as to his demise?

thank you guys for taking in interest in this thread.

[MatsP]

Well, it's often quite hard to figure out why a fish died when it's a sudden death.

Usually, if it's "murder", then you see external signs (further than split tail).

But it's VERY hard to say if you don't see what is happening and there is no external signs of what's gone wrong.

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Mats

[ceh]

everything has its end, even our pets
13 years is a long life for the fish specially for those who live in artificial conditions like ours aquariums

[fishtales]

thanks guys. i guess he had a good life. i know that is a long time for a fish. i pride myself in taking good care of them. they are not ornamental to me. they are my pets. that is true, every living thing will die one day. in fact he was probably over 15. i had him 13 years and 4 months. he was probably two when i got him. there is never a good time to lose a pet. on the bright side after a week i am less sad.

i like my little l136b. he is hidden under a rock and there is not much to see. i am hoping with the outstanding water quality i provide he will grow quicker than they usually do in captivity. i was considering another but i think that would be in haste. i feel the pl*co's need a lot of space. i am sort of a fanatic about my aquariums. in my very large aquarium people often ask "where are the fish?". thats just how i feel comfortable. this was not my oldest fish. i just really liked him.