Gauging interest for my TR L183's

[bsmith]

These are fish bred by me. They are f1-f2 and are gorgeous. I think this is the best place to offer them first since there are a lot of very knowledgeable hobbiest on here and quite a few Pleco fanatics!

These will be $30 per 1-1/2" fish. Which should be that size in a couple of months. I will only do USPS express shipping and that will be $35 for up to 2 fish in an insulated box.

You can read all about them http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... =5&t=32350.

Please let me know if you have any questions. I love these fish!

[PlecoCrazy]

You should definently wait a couple months anyways as USPS express is horrible and a 30-40% chance of second day delivery. Too cold to mess around with 2nd Day deliveries this time of year. Also, 2 fry per box is like shipping an empty box with water. Why only 2 fish per box, baby plecos are very light and adding a few more isn't going to change the box weight hardly at all.

Alot can happen to fish between now and then. You could lose the whole tank between now and a couple of months. I would wait to sell your fry till your fry are ready to be sold. IMO

[bsmith]

There about an inch now and as stated above they will be 1-1/2" when they will be sold. I ship more fragile CRS USPS all the time and have never had am issue but thanks for your concerns.

Are you wanting any of these?

[fishboy20]

It is a little low to only have two fish per box. I'd think with express you should be able to fit a half dozen or maybe even more. Certainly the cost of shipping is going up but you may not get many wanting the fish if the cost of shipping costs that much. I used to ship a dozen or so royal farlowellas in shipping boxes. Food for thought.

Jeremy

[bsmith]

It is a little low to only have two fish per box. I'd think with express you should be able to fit a half dozen or maybe even more. Certainly the cost of shipping is going up but you may not get many wanting the fish if the cost of shipping costs that much. I used to ship a dozen or so royal farlowellas in shipping boxes. Food for thought.

Jeremy

Thanks for the helpful info. I'm just not sure on how much the water in the bags way. I know that shipping 15 crs in three separate bags is about a's much a's the 7x7x6 boxes will hold. I might have to investigated ups or fedex for mailing options. I just didn't want to promise $30 shipping to end up costing me $60.

[mjlfish]

Go get some flat rate boxes, ship 8 of them for $10. Man up and learn to pack fish, it's not hard. If you question my shipping skills first go to plecoworld.com and ask about them or check aquabid. If you cannot figure out how to ship priority, order from someone who does and copy them if they are successful. The number one killer of a deal for anyone is shipping costs. These fish are alot tougher then you think. Look at what they go through during the dry seasons. And don't put in a ton of water, 90 percent air 10 percent water.

[bsmith]

Go get some flat rate boxes, ship 8 of them for $10. Man up and learn to pack fish, it's not hard. If you question my shipping skills first go to plecoworld.com and ask about them or check aquabid. If you cannot figure out how to ship priority, order from someone who does and copy them if they are successful. The number one killer of a deal for anyone is shipping costs. These fish are alot tougher then you think. Look at what they go through during the dry seasons. And don't put in a ton of water, 90 percent air 10 percent water.

Man up and learn to pack fish. That could be the quote if the year. Very funny.

I'm not going to be sending these guys priority, just express/next day. If whoever is purchasing them can spend this kind of money on fish but doesn't want to buck up for shipping. They might need to re asses their priorities.

[mjlfish]

Yeah, well there is always someone who thinks there stuff is the only stuff out there. I sold f1 183's by the hundreds for $10 each. It's not like they are hard to spawn or anything. And just because you can't ship priority, from fear or most likely lack of shipping skills. It's not hard and then you get a reputation for being one hell of a seller, like me, who can ship priority anytime of the year. Ask around, look at my feedback on aquabid, or maybe ask N2biomes on plecoworld at my shipment the po lost that showed up 15 days later with an 80 percent survival rate. Then maybe you can run your soup cooler about shipping! Till then you know what they say about staying on the proch if you can't keep up right? Good. have a nice day!

[bsmith]

Are you trying to act hard about shipping animals across the country in boxes?

And as far as my fish go, if you can find another hobbiest selling ones they bred themselves your welcome to buy them. Wait you bred them yourself so you should be good.

[mjlfish]

Nope, just get tired of whiny little rookies. And let's face it 2 1.5 inch fish shipped for $30? Just how inexperienced can you be? That's a rhetorical question by the way. Now go find some other rookie who dosen't know any better and rip him off with your ridiculous shipping costs. people who don't know how to ship bring a bad name to this hobby. Mostly cause they act like it's all about the money.

[bsmith]

What should I charge then smart guy? After looking throughout the web for comparisons the only thing I can find is WC fish for $20 a pop. And why does what I charge have any interest to you. I can only find one other person selling fish they bred themselves on the net. Since you are a big aqua bid seller are my fish going to cut into your profits? Is that where all of your misplaced ignorance is coming from?

[apistomaster]

I don't think stepleco is intentionally trying to gouge anyone.
This is really only a case of a first time fish shipper and we all have our first time and I doubt if anyone got everything perfect their first time around. Notice his subject is "Gauging interest for my TR L183's".
I read that as asking for feed back, not obnoxious comments.
To stepleco, you also must be thick skinned when you expose yourself to public responses.

USPS Priority mail is the cheapest USPS option and if the weather is favorable that method can work fine.
The USPS Express Mail is their fastest method for shipping small parcels but there are very few locations where the animals you send arrive at their destination on the next day. Nearly every destinations within the lower 48 States arrive on the second day. For example, if you mail them on Monday 95% of your fish arrive on Wednesday. But there has been a change in policy at the USPS so now they do not even guarantee second day delivery. A few will take three days and most Priority Mail shipments take three days. It makes even me, someone who has shipped quite a few fish over the years, wonder why I should bother with Express mail but anything that cuts a day of transit time off nearly all orders is worth paying the extra charges of using USPS Express. And when it comes to live animals, the USPS at most, will only cover the postage on a shipment which is not delivered in compliance with their policies. The stuff in the bag is not covered. You can buy insurance on non-perishable items but not on perishable items.

The are many valid points and critiques within the comments but back to my first point, we obviously are talking to a beginning shipper. We who have the experience can share our knowledge and offer constructive criticism which will help stepleco.
All of you listing fish for sale here can see that stepleco has much to learn about the art and economics of shipping fish and we can share our experience with him thus saving him some of the costly lessons we all have made at some point.

To stepleco,
Your experience with shipping Crystal Red Shrimp(CRS) is not very useful to you as you switch to a warm water pleco. CRS are subtropical animals with the innate ability to survive temperatures low enough to kill a warm water pleco species.
I also blend one tablet of Jungle Bag Buddie tranquilizer tablet and mix it with the volume of shipping water recommended on the label. The fish are stressed less when mildly tranquilized. There are other methods used among barrier bag users but they also get some tranquilizing effect from increased CO2 levels whether they realize this or not.
I happen to use only Kordon breathable bags. These are also the best bags to use for shipping shrimp. I have many reasons for doing so including saving space so I can pack 6, 2-1/2" plecos in a fairly small box, no air is added to the bag because these bags allow CO2 to exit and O2 to enter through the water tight, semipermeable plastic membrane these bags are made from. Here is information about breathable bags. I have personally tested simulated shipping conditions with fish packed as I will describe for up to 7 days. I had to release the test subjects so they could eat after 7 days inside a bag.
http://www.novalek.com/kordon/breathing_bags/index.htm
I buy from Kordon, LLC
2242 Davis Court
Hayward, CA 94545-1114
You can buy smaller quantities from vendors on aquabid.com and others.
To ship plecos the corners of the bags must be tied off with a small rubber band. I use an impulse bag sealer but the idea is to produce a bag without any acute corners because that is where and how the spines of plecos can puncture the bags.
If you double bag breathable bags you lose at least half of their breathing capability; I do not recommend that Each bag must be surrounded by a breathe material and not allowed to be in direct contact with the other bags nor styro box. These contacts reduce the available surface area the bags rely on for gas exchange. I wrap mine in a paper towel. This is the smallest size bag you can use. Normal, barrier bags must be left with at least 75% air filled space. For some that is fine but I prefer a more compact ball of water in which the fish are not sloshed about during transit. Shrimp travel better this way too but provide them with something to cling to.
NOTE: I fast my fish for 48 hours prior to bagging to reduce the amount of waste they release into their shipping water.
I spend quite a bit on my shipping boxes. I buy high density polyfoam box with matching exterior cardboard boxes already labeled, "PERISHABLE". I buy my boxes from http://www.uline.com. They are sold as insulated shipping kits. It costs me almost as much in freight to order these boxes as the list price of the boxes. They have many different sizes. I do not skimp on the quality of my shipping boxes. They are one of the few things I can directly influence which will help my fish arrive safely and warm. I have never bothered to upgrade my account with FedEx which would allow me to ship overnight the year around because too many cold weather shipments are left outdoors long enough to severely chill the fish and I get that for nearly twice the cost for freight? No thank you. That is why I only begin shipping in April and stop sometime in the fall when I estimate the chances of chilling have become too high. I begin advertising as early as February but I make it clear I will begin to ship in April depending upon the prevailing weather conditions
Even once you have received your shipping boxes, the USPS has a minimum charge per box. Then they add the actual dimensions and weight charges to the box to arrive at the final cost to ship to a particular zip code.

USPS regulations require that you use a leak proof barrier bag liner as protection against any damage resulting from a leaking or burst bag. They require using some absorbent material. I consider my paper towel wrapping around each breathable bag as my absorbent material. I am now in compliance with the applicable UPS regulations.
I have shared all of my shipping methods I can think of.

The price and size of the fish you sell must be competitive.
FWIW, I never sell plecos smaller than 2 inches. Most are 2-1/2 to 2-3/4 inches. I have not researched L183 prices much but I know I can buy wild adults for not very much and I would not buy any tank raised specimens smaller than 2 inches.
These are my opinions or are my policies and it means the fish I sell in the spring through fall are never less than 10 months old and some are 13 months. I have never had any complaints from selling expensive plecos which are "too large".
Other sellers have different reasons for having different opinions and policies. I leave it to them to explain themselves.

[bsmith]

I don't think stepleco is intentionally trying to gouge anyone.
This is really only a case of a first time fish shipper and we all have our first time and I doubt if anyone got everything perfect their first time around. Notice his subject is "Gauging interest for my TR L183's".
I read that as asking for feed back, not obnoxious comments.
To stepleco, you also must be thick skinned when you expose yourself to public responses.

USPS Priority mail is the cheapest USPS option and if the weather is favorable that method can work fine.
The USPS Express Mail is their fastest method for shipping small parcels but there are very few locations where the animals you send arrive at their destination on the next day. Nearly every destinations within the lower 48 States arrive on the second day. For example, if you mail them on Monday 95% of your fish arrive on Wednesday. But there has been a change in policy at the USPS so now they do not even guarantee second day delivery. A few will take three days and most Priority Mail shipments take three days. It makes even me, someone who has shipped quite a few fish over the years, wonder why I should bother with Express mail but anything that cuts a day of transit time off nearly all orders is worth paying the extra charges of using USPS Express. And when it comes to live animals, the USPS at most, will only cover the postage on a shipment which is not delivered in compliance with their policies. The stuff in the bag is not covered. You can buy insurance on non-perishable items but not on perishable items.

The are many valid points and critiques within the comments but back to my first point, we obviously are talking to a beginning shipper. We who have the experience can share our knowledge and offer constructive criticism which will help stepleco.
All of you listing fish for sale here can see that stepleco has much to learn about the art and economics of shipping fish and we can share our experience with him thus saving him some of the costly lessons we all have made at some point.

To stepleco,
Your experience with shipping Crystal Red Shrimp(CRS) is not very useful to you as you switch to a warm water pleco. CRS are subtropical animals with the innate ability to survive temperatures low enough to kill a warm water pleco species.
I also blend one tablet of Jungle Bag Buddie tranquilizer tablet and mix it with the volume of shipping water recommended on the label. The fish are stressed less when mildly tranquilized. There are other methods used among barrier bag users but they also get some tranquilizing effect from increased CO2 levels whether they realize this or not.
I happen to use only Kordon breathable bags. These are also the best bags to use for shipping shrimp. I have many reasons for doing so including saving space so I can pack 6, 2-1/2" plecos in a fairly small box, no air is added to the bag because these bags allow CO2 to exit and O2 to enter through the water tight, semipermeable plastic membrane these bags are made from. Here is information about breathable bags. I have personally tested simulated shipping conditions with fish packed as I will describe for up to 7 days. I had to release the test subjects so they could eat after 7 days inside a bag.
http://www.novalek.com/kordon/breathing_bags/index.htm
I buy from Kordon, LLC
2242 Davis Court
Hayward, CA 94545-1114
You can buy smaller quantities from vendors on aquabid.com and others.
To ship plecos the corners of the bags must be tied off with a small rubber band. I use an impulse bag sealer but the idea is to produce a bag without any acute corners because that is where and how the spines of plecos can puncture the bags.
If you double bag breathable bags you lose at least half of their breathing capability; I do not recommend that Each bag must be surrounded by a breathe material and not allowed to be in direct contact with the other bags nor styro box. These contacts reduce the available surface area the bags rely on for gas exchange. I wrap mine in a paper towel. This is the smallest size bag you can use. Normal, barrier bags must be left with at least 75% air filled space. For some that is fine but I prefer a more compact ball of water in which the fish are not sloshed about during transit. Shrimp travel better this way too but provide them with something to cling to.
NOTE: I fast my fish for 48 hours prior to bagging to reduce the amount of waste they release into their shipping water.
I spend quite a bit on my shipping boxes. I buy high density polyfoam box with matching exterior cardboard boxes already labeled, "PERISHABLE". I buy my boxes from http://www.uline.com. They are sold as insulated shipping kits. It costs me almost as much in freight to order these boxes as the list price of the boxes. They have many different sizes. I do not skimp on the quality of my shipping boxes. They are one of the few things I can directly influence which will help my fish arrive safely and warm. I have never bothered to upgrade my account with FedEx which would allow me to ship overnight the year around because too many cold weather shipments are left outdoors long enough to severely chill the fish and I get that for nearly twice the cost for freight? No thank you. That is why I only begin shipping in April and stop sometime in the fall when I estimate the chances of chilling have become too high. I begin advertising as early as February but I make it clear I will begin to ship in April depending upon the prevailing weather conditions
Even once you have received your shipping boxes, the USPS has a minimum charge per box. Then they add the actual dimensions and weight charges to the box to arrive at the final cost to ship to a particular zip code.

USPS regulations require that you use a leak proof barrier bag liner as protection against any damage resulting from a leaking or burst bag. They require using some absorbent material. I consider my paper towel wrapping around each breathable bag as my absorbent material. I am now in compliance with the applicable UPS regulations.
I have shared all of my shipping methods I can think of.

The price and size of the fish you sell must be competitive.
FWIW, I never sell plecos smaller than 2 inches. Most are 2-1/2 to 2-3/4 inches. I have not researched L183 prices much but I know I can buy wild adults for not very much and I would not buy any tank raised specimens smaller than 2 inches.
These are my opinions or are my policies and it means the fish I sell in the spring through fall are never less than 10 months old and some are 13 months. I have never had any complaints from selling expensive plecos which are "too large".
Other sellers have different reasons for having different opinions and policies. I leave it to them to explain themselves.

As usual thanks for the info Larry. This is all I was looking for. Not a disgruntled response from a know it all who has no interest in my fish as was the case prior to your response.

You bring up a lot of good points that I had been thinking about.

When I ship my CRS I use Kordon bags as they seem to provide the best housing and have allowed me to ship many boxes that have take longer than the advertised 3 day delivery time from USPS priority service (6 days was the worst) and I have still yet to have a single DOA. I purchased them from Ken Menard at kensfish.com, the same place I get the food that im selling in this very forum.

For insulation I either get 1/2 Styrofoam and cut it to fit or I use this purple 1/2 insulating backing board that is also bought in a big board and cut to fit. When shipping I like to reuse as much material as I can since not only does it save me money but it makes me feel better recycling the things I can. When I pack up the shrimp I use either packing peanuts, shredded paper from my home paper shredder (best IMO), or crumbles pieces of paper that I would normally recycle.

I cant remember if this was specific to CALLICHTHYIDAE but I was told that breather bags would not work for them as they need air to gulp or something to the effect of that. Do you know if this is the truch with just the cories? Obviously if you have been using the kordons and had good results then that is enough for me on that.

After talking to a bunch of people the shipping size appropriate for these is around 1-1/2" to 2" and thats where I will start. For the pricing, I feel that the $30 I came up with was very fair from not only the research on others' pricing but also the general lack of availability of these fish. When I first purchased them 2 years ago I paid $50 per fish (or very close to it) and I was happy to do so.

What are your (anybodies with constructive answers) thoughts on the price difference for TR v WC fish. In my eyes the TR fish would be more attractive since there are far less variables to have to think about when introducing them to your set up but perhaps I cannot see the advantages the WC fish bring to the table.

Thanks.

[apistomaster]

I only have shipped Dwarf Corydoras in breathable bags, C. hastatus and C. habrosus, 6 specimens in 6 oz of water.

I don't raise larger Corydoras but I was raising a lot C. sterbai for awhile. I always had trouble shipping those. I sold about 95% of the 1000 I raised to regional shops within a 100 mile radius, delivered. Larger Corys simply are too risky for too little money for me to breed. I was glad to finally sell all those I had raised. It took 3-40 gal breeders to keep that many half grown C. sterbai and they wholesale for only about $2.25 to $2.50 if you're lucky.

I know several breeders of L183 and I usually do trades with other fish breeders.
If I were buying I would go with wild adults which only run about $30. I know several breeders of L183 but like most Ancistrus spp, L183 grows larger than I like. 5 inches isn't a bad size, it's just larger than I like. It's why I don't like common Ancistrus cf. cirrhosus. I have several large adults and a big trio of albino long fin A. cf. cirrhosus. That is enough big Bushy Noses for me.

I have some breeding trios of F1

Sturisoma aureum

I raised from wild fish which are pretty long but they are fairly skinny fish. They have sentimental value to me since I raised them from wild fish and am now growing out an F2 gen. They are diurnal so they are always out in the open.
I have a breeding group of young

Rineloricaria sp(l010a)

. They are pretty diurnal as well. When you keep many species of hiding plecos, you begin to appreciate the few that are day active.

I am getting a group of

Ancistrus claro

next month. A maximum size of about 2-1/2 inches appeals to me.

I am sure there are plenty of people who are looking for some L183. You just have to figure out if you can be competitive with the other breeders. Check aquabid.com regularly. As it warms up you will see more hobbyist breeders listing their fish and better able to gauge the market.

[plecoboy]

Not to be a weisenheimer, but I just got a 6 pack on Aquabid for $85 from Brian's Tropicals. As for shipping, I just use 2mm bags and place 2 or 3 fry per 6 oz of water, depending on how big they are. I usually sell fry at around 1 inch. You should be able to ship a 6 pack for around $35 overnight as the package weight will be around 4 pounds after you add a heat pack or two. I recommend using cellulose insulation as filler, the R value is 3 times that of styro, but still use a styro liner in winter months.

Jay

[bsmith]

That is a heck of a deal considering he's selling 1" fish on his site for $25. With $35 shipping. That's the beauty of a bidding system, catch someone sleeping and you get a deal.

My fish will be almost twice that size when they are going to be sold so I guess it's up to the purchaser what they want. ;)


I think the cellulose is the other material I used that I purchased from Lowes. It was pink and another time it was purple and the r value was. 3. It's good stuff.

[apistomaster]

Buying and selling 1 inch plecos is fine between experienced pleco breeders.
For those who lack experience raising 1 inch pleco fry the long term loss rate is quite high. Those who are new to plecos are better off getting larger sized juveniles.

I sell many of my fish to Discus keepers who lack pleco expertise. They would pretty much wipe out if they received one inch plecos. I choose to sell fish about one year old. Yesterday a customer who bought 6 L333 last spring from me sent me an e-mail to let me know his L333 have their first fry. I'd rather deal with that kind of feed back. Most all my L333 go out at 2-1/2" to 2-3/4".

[bsmith]

I think that's the second time I have heard you say you would prefer WC fish Larry, any specific reason why? Or do you just like the extra challenge?

[apistomaster]

I think that's the second time I have heard you say you would prefer WC fish Larry, any specific reason why? Or do you just like the extra challenge?

I don't remember saying that in this discussion.
But when it comes to some species I do prefer wild fish, like H. zebra.
In other cases, I may prefer wild fish if they are adults and I don't wish to take the time to grow them out to breeding size or I can get the adult wilds for no more than TR juveniles. Just depends, I keep and breed a lot of different species of fish and many of them are not catfish let alone plecos. When I want to breed Discus, and those are usually wild types, I want young adults so I won't buy the XXL size but prefer the med to large range. I prefer keeping and breeding wild Angelfish and would touch a man-made variety with a 10 feet pole. When I want Killies sometimes I buy eggs and sometimes young pairs. I definitely prefer wild caught Apistogramma to tank bred varieties that do not occur in nature. I prefer getting wild caught species of Bettas. I like raising Tetras, Copella spp and Pencilfish.
I am not only a pleco breeder. I only began keeping plecos 6 or 7 years ago,
Before that I was breeding Red Turquoise Discus. Going to be hard to put me into any particular slot. I am a very eclectic fish hobbyist/breeder. I have been at this almost 50 years.

[bsmith]

Maybe I read a post of yours in another thread about the WC fish. I see it just depends on the flavor.

[apistomaster]

I am on many different fish forums. simplydiscus, planet catfish, apistogramma.com, American Killiefish Association, aquaticquotient.com and I am a moderator on http://www.finarama.com, a wild Angelfish forum.
Probably something else I am forgetting. Been a reef tank keeper and even reef fish have bred for me.
Plus I have been fly fishing for wild Trout and tying my own fly designs since I was 9 or 10.
Had a fish shop for 6 years as a kid, bred Discus for money to go to college.
I come at fish from all different directions. Hard to keep it all straight where I learn this or that. I'm only 60 so I suspect I will go off on some other tangents.

[bsmith]

I am on many different fish forums. simplydiscus, planet catfish, apistogramma.com, American Killiefish Association, aquaticquotient.com and I am a moderator on http://www.finarama.com, a wild Angelfish forum.
Probably something else I am forgetting. Been a reef tank keeper and even reef fish have bred for me.
Plus I have been fly fishing for wild Trout and tying my own fly designs since I was 9 or 10.
Had a fish shop for 6 years as a kid, bred Discus for money to go to college.
I come at fish from all different directions. Hard to keep it all straight where I learn this or that. I'm only 60 so I suspect I will go off on some other tangents.

It happens.

[2wheelsx2]

FWIW, I don't think $30 a fish is unreasonable. Someone had 6 here locally (WC juvies grown into adults) and were selling for $375 for the group. I believe that if people don't want them for that price, they just won't buy. There are always deals to be had and someone will always find a better deal for something, but I don't see why they should jump in your thread and tell you how to sell your fish. As you stated, constructive criticism is valuable, but just to jump in and trash talk is a waste of everyone's time. It's one of the reasons that I stopped selling my plants/fish online unless it's with people I know and have dealt with. Everyone is a hero on the internet. They say things they would never say to a person's face.

Anyway, sorry to get off on a rant, but I've read, participated, and enjoyed your threads here and on plantedtank.net and felt that you were not being unreasonable here to ask someone to respect your thread, especially since you are not even selling yet, but only gauging interest. Good luck with them. I'd certainly consider them if I were in the market for interesting Ancistrus.

[bsmith]

FWIW, I don't think $30 a fish is unreasonable. Someone had 6 here locally (WC juvies grown into adults) and were selling for $375 for the group. I believe that if people don't want them for that price, they just won't buy. There are always deals to be had and someone will always find a better deal for something, but I don't see why they should jump in your thread and tell you how to sell your fish. As you stated, constructive criticism is valuable, but just to jump in and trash talk is a waste of everyone's time. It's one of the reasons that I stopped selling my plants/fish online unless it's with people I know and have dealt with. Everyone is a hero on the internet. They say things they would never say to a person's face.

Anyway, sorry to get off on a rant, but I've read, participated, and enjoyed your threads here and on plantedtank.net and felt that you were not being unreasonable here to ask someone to respect your thread, especially since you are not even selling yet, but only gauging interest. Good luck with them. I'd certainly consider them if I were in the market for interesting Ancistrus.

I appreciate it.

As I stated the prices I came up with were only considered because of the research I had done. And your statement is 100% correct, if someone feels the price is too high they will either not buy or do as I do when considering something I still want, I will just pm the seller and see if we can work something out.

You are also correct that the lapse of mannors and courtesy on the net is a thing quite a few people seem to have forgotten. I could expect it on a few of the car forums I'm a member of but on a planted tank/fish hobbiest site there is no need and IMO should NE no tolerance of it. Differences in opinion are what make the world a wonderful place and to not tolerate anothers view is simply ignorant and sad.

[apistomaster]

2wheels,
Well said,
Before stepleco tested the waters I contacted him about doing a possible trade for some of his L183 because I was still considering a very soft water, low pH wild Green Discus tank and thought the L183 would make good algae eaters in this kind of environment. but then I decided to wait for some friends to breed and raise their fry using the natural method. Not the artificial methods some others have tried but failed to keep up with the round the clock care that is required to raise perfect discus in dishes fed powdered egg yolk paste. To breed wild Red Spotted Greens naturally will take some time and I knew that. I would have to wait up to 2 more years so I no longer needed any black water plecos that would eat algae. I didn't decide over price or other factors. Just had a change of plans that had nothing to do with stepleco.

My hands are full enough with my wild Nhamunda Blue type Discus project and taking on wild Green Discus now would be too much for me.

[bsmith]

So anyone wanting some beautiful plecos?

[Barbie]

I would like to apologize for coming late to this thread. I am not shopping for fish lately, so I guess I need to remember to peruse this forum more frequently. Sheesh.

Economics is just that. If someone wants to pay more for bigger fish, they will. If they don't sell, you can always drop the price. People are being quick in this thread to poke about using cheaper methods and how to get a deal, but the fact still remains that our fish are worth what we're willing to pay, Period.

I personally won't ship fish with the USPS. I spent my money to get accounts with the airlines to make sure that the plecos I raise have the best chance to get to their new homes as quickly as possible. I have yet to need to drop my price on fish available to get them sold because I expect people to pay for shipping that has the best chance of the fish arriving in good shape. That is my preference, and until the fish are sold, they are mine to be possessive or opinionated over. Please try to keep in mind this is a public forum and keep input on answering questions in a constructive, not insulting format.

Barbie

[bsmith]

I would like to apologize for coming late to this thread. I am not shopping for fish lately, so I guess I need to remember to peruse this forum more frequently. Sheesh.

Economics is just that. If someone wants to pay more for bigger fish, they will. If they don't sell, you can always drop the price. People are being quick in this thread to poke about using cheaper methods and how to get a deal, but the fact still remains that our fish are worth what we're willing to pay, Period.

I personally won't ship fish with the USPS. I spent my money to get accounts with the airlines to make sure that the plecos I raise have the best chance to get to their new homes as quickly as possible. I have yet to need to drop my price on fish available to get them sold because I expect people to pay for shipping that has the best chance of the fish arriving in good shape. That is my preference, and until the fish are sold, they are mine to be possessive or opinionated over. Please try to keep in mind this is a public forum and keep input on answering questions in a constructive, not insulting format.

Barbie

Thanks Barbie, my sentiments exactly. Actually I had a local guy pick up 10 on Thursday for $20 a pop and have another 6 sold for when they get a bit bigger. He was more than happy to pay that price. With all of the emails and pm's on different forums from interested parties I think ill be fine selling them at the prices I have, especially when they are bigger.

[chad320]

For sure B. Im interested. I have to wait for a tank spot to open up which lands me with bigger fish

[bsmith]

All of these guys are gone. It was a great experience and thankfully every single fish that was sent out arrived at it's final destination in great shape.

I also wanted to personally thank mjlfish for all of his sage and on point wisdom. Since all of the fish sold for $30 and the purchasers were more then happy to pay a bit more for USPS Express shipping to ensure their aquatic investment arrived safe and sound.