Suitable pleco suggestions for my set-up please!

[PlatinumSM]

I have an Electric Blue Jack Dempsey who is currently living in a 40-G planted tank with a bristlenose pleco. Although the bristlenose works for now (he and the EBJD are about the same size) in a few months he will have to move out of the tank (or risk turning into an EBJD appetizer!) What would be the best kind of large-ish pleco for this setup? Thanks for your suggestions!

1. Water parameters
a) Temp: 70-75 F for now, but could increase up to 80
b) pH: 7.0-7.2
c) GH. (?)
d) KH (?)
e) Ammonia (0), Nitrate (5), Nitrite (0)
f) Water change frequency: 1x per week

2. Tank set up
a) Size: 40 Breeder
b) Substrate: Fluorite Black Sand
c) Filtration: Well-seasoned Eheim 2213 (ran on another tank for over a year)
d) Decoration: Live Plants & Cichlid Stones
e) Tankmates: Electric Blue Jack Dempsey (Rocio octofasciata)
f) Tank Set Up For: 6 months
g) Last Fish Added: A few months ago
h) Food: HBH Oscar Grow Pellets, Frozen Mysis Shrimp, Live Guppies, Freeze Dried Blood Worms

[MatsP]

It shouldn't be that large, as your tank is suitable only for fish up to 8", maybe 9".

You could enter the data of max size, pH and temperature (use one temperature, or a small range, for max and min) into the cat-elog search: http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/search.php

--
Mats

[Jools]

Mod edit: renamed topic from CAPS - please check forum rules for details.

Jools

[Richard B]

There are a number of species that would work (although still provide a few "dempsey-proof" hideouts.

How about

Pseudacanthicus spinosus

? as a starting suggestion

[PlatinumSM]

Mods - sorry for the caps!

MatsP - I did do a search of the cat-e-log, but it came back with over 100 species, many of which had little or no information on how easy they are to keep alive and happy. After my disaster with the Gold Nugget I purchased 2 weeks ago (and killed, despite my best efforts), I want some good advice on a suitable fish before I go out and buy something that seems like a good fit for my tank, but whose care requirements are way over my head (I am a busy grad student, after all)!

Richard B - Thanks for the suggestion! I would prefer something with a little more color, though... Any thoughts on the Three Beacon Pleco (L091)? There is one up on Aquabid right now

[2wheelsx2]

I have 2

Leporacanthicus triactis

or Three Beacon plecos from a trio I purchased early last year and I really like them. It's too bad that I don't see them as often as I want to because of all the hidey holes I set up. I think if you like them, they'll be good in your setup.

[MatsP]

If you sort by "hits" (instead of alphabetical order) [selection at the bottom of the search entry form] - that will be the "most popular".

--
Mats

[PlatinumSM]

2wheels: Thanks! It's nice to hear from someone who keeps these successfully! May I ask what your setup is like (water params, tank size, etc.) and what you feed them?

MatsP: Thanks a lot for the searching suggestion - I have already eliminated a few that will not work (such as the Leopard Cactus, who apparently likes more acidic water) and discovered what might be my new favorite fish (the Three Beacon)!

[2wheelsx2]

2wheels: Thanks! It's nice to hear from someone who keeps these successfully! May I ask what your setup is like (water params, tank size, etc.) and what you feed them?

Mine setup is basically for SA, even though I had a JD and 2 EBJD's in there. I've since sold the EBJD's and now only have the 1 JD that I'm still trying to sell. The tank is a 125 gallon with a mix of plecos in there. I rarely feed meeting foods now as I've lost a few to bloat. It's a CO2 injected planted tank with lots of rocks/plants and shade from over hanging wood with plants attached. pH is buffered at about 6.8 with crushed coral, GH and KH is about 3 (our water has very low TDS, so I have to use a GH booster after a water change). I do a 50 - 60% water change 2x a week or more, depending on how much time I have. Temperature is at 26C. I have gravel as a substrate and the tank is filtered by an FX5, Rena Filstar XP3 and an Eheim 2028. I also have a Maxiject 400 with the Sureflo mod which puts is at 1200 gph and a Hydor Koralia 3 for circulation.

[MatsP]

I also keep

L091

, they are great fish - probably will outgrow your tank eventually, and they aren't exactly slow-growing. I have a group of 5.

--
Mats

[Richard B]

I thought about triactis but thought they'd ultimately get a fraction too big - my suggestion was a starting point and obviously personal preference is a big factor. These are a little more visible than a lot of others, including triactis IME, but there are loads to choose from. If there is anything you really fancy, we can always give you our thoughts on suitability

[Linus_Cello]

What about L-204 Panaque sp "Flash pleco?" http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/sp ... ies_id=126

The may be little smaller than what you want, but they tolerate higher pH, are attractive, and they are relatively cheaper as far as fancy plecos go (aquabid has them at US$60 for a three-pack, http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/ ... 1296760970, but I've occasionally seen them at $15 each). As a panaque, you would need to add some driftwood/bogwood for their diet. Mine are fairly active in my tank, I guess as there are several trying to defend their territories.

[PlatinumSM]

I think the flash pleco is going to be a little small to share a tank with a lone EBJD, especially one that gets live food pretty frequently!

As far as the Three Beacon (L091) goes, it is possible that I will upgrade the EBJD and his future tankmate to a larger tank next year, but I don't think I could handle changing all of that water twice a week! I change water usually once a week in the 10-gallon tanks, and every other week in the 40-g tank.

The two species I am most interested in keeping (with reasonably similar requirements to the EBJD) are the Para Pleco (L075) and the Three Beacon (L091). Which one of these two would you go with (or is neither one really suitable for my tank?)

Thanks for all of your suggestions!

[2wheelsx2]

I have both the

Peckoltia sabaji

and the

Leporacanthicus triactis

in my 125 gallon and the Peskoltia is much more active. My L. triactis are more secretive except at feeding time.

[Linus_Cello]

I also have an L. triactis. Agree with 2wheels2x- it stays hidden except when there's food, and then it's still skittish. I lucked out and got a dragon fin variety.

[PlatinumSM]

Linus - WOW! Your fish is absolutely stunning! What an amazing animal! Thanks for the awesome picture!

Richard B & Mats P: After hearing how happily everyone's L. triactis are in 100+ gallon tanks, I think you are right about them getting a bit too big for my 40-G...

What do you guys think of the "Blue Phantom" L128 - they are a bit smaller than triactis and sabaji and would go along nicely with the "blue theme" of the EBJD tank

[MatsP]

Ehm, my tank is 270 liter = 71 gal.

--
Mats

[Richard B]

What do you guys think of the "Blue Phantom" L128 - they are a bit smaller than triactis and sabaji and would go along nicely with the "blue theme" of the EBJD tank

They are IMHO not as 'robust'. This doesn't neccessarily mean it's not an option but how aggressive will the dempsey turn out to be? A full grown adult might not tolerate any other fish in 'his domain' so tankmates need to be tough enough to cope should problems arise

[MatsP]

I would have thought that from a "toughness" perspective, the

Peckoltia sabaji

and

Hemiancistrus sp(L128)

are relatively even. The Leporacanthicus are a bit more "prickly", which may help it.

I agree that the Jack Dempsey is potentially going to terrorise everything in the tank.

--
Mats

[2wheelsx2]

In my experience, JD's are pretty wimpy as far as SA cichlids go and EBJD's even more so. My 2 EBJD's were totally running from my plecos.

[Bijn]

Rocio's aren't that aggressive, I don't see any problem for keeping a full grown common Ancistrus with a full grown Rocio.

I do find a 40G tank too small for a Rocio, and not a little bit.

[PlatinumSM]

Bijn: I agree that a 40-G is going to be too small for the Rocio once he grows up, but it is only meant to be a temporary tank for the next year or so. We are living in a studio right now, so all of my tanks are on a 48" wide baker's rack and the 40-G breeder is literally the biggest tank that will fit on the rack!

2wheelsx2: LOL.

Richard B & MatsP: My EBJD killed his female betta buddy after two weeks of cohabitation, but isn't bothering the full-grown male Ancistrus in his tank at all, so I think he's more interested in protecting his "zone" (the top 50% of water) than policing the bottom. Just to be safe, I am planning to QT the new catfish in the 40-G for 6 weeks while the EBJD hangs out in my 30-g guppy tank (guppies removed, of course). Hopefully that will help ease any latent the tension when I reintroduce the JD!

[apistomaster]

I also think that the beautiful L128 and it's cousin L200 are too delicate for a "rough house" tank and need more water changes than you currently perform. The method you use for changing water should be revisited as a 70% volume per week water change is closer to what is necessary to maintain higher water quality. Not just for delicate species but if only because of the sizes of your fish and the quantity of wastes they produce. All large fish, be they Cichlids or catfish need more frequent and larger water changes in order to be kept at their best. Tropical fish typically eat about 2% of their body weight each day and excrete daily that much in solid wastes plus respire ammonia and CO2. You need to change enough water to prevent a build up of their wastes. Filters are an aid but as is well known, "the solution for pollution is dilution." Consider one of the Venturi Effect water changing systems such as the "Python" line or similar. I happen to use a Recreational vehicle 25 ft potable water(Cost:~$13.00) hose with Garden Hose Thread ends(GHT) and have a PVC GHT adapter fitting attached to a mixing faucet. It allows me to siphon old water out a door or one can drain to the bath tub but it is simply attached to the faucet to refill your tank and the temperature is adjusted to match that of the tank. Prior to refilling my tanks I add the appropriate dose of water conditioner to the receiving tank. I use SeaChem's "Prime"but their are many good chlorine and chloramine neutralizing products available.
Peckoltia sabji is a good fish to consider as they are hardy, attractive and in general, Peckoltia spp seem to be a little more outgoing than many other plecos.
Panaque L204 is a pretty durable species but they are only very attractive when they are juveniles. Mature specimens lack the bright contrasting yellow lines found on juvies and as they mature they become more reclusive. They are a messy species even by medium to large Pleco standards. L128 and L200 are as sensitive to poor water quality as Discus.

[PlatinumSM]

Apistomaster: Thanks for the advice - I agree that fish from fast-moving waterways should have as much new water as possible. I had been following the 20% water change rule rather blindly and for no good reason, as I can certainly spare a few hours every Sunday taking care of my fish! I just ordered an Aqueon water changer from Amazon.com after hauling buckets all evening, which was another GREAT suggestion!

I am a little confused by your comment that L128 and L200 are as sensitive as Discus to water quality, though, since the Catfish of the Month article on these guys (http://www.planetcatfish.com/cotm/cotm. ... cle_id=151) states that it is A good "starter" l-number... a good pleco for a community tank. Shouldn't a "starter" fish be a little hardier than a Discus!?!

[MatsP]

My experience with L128 is that they are not particularly sensitive. I'm not saying Larry is wrong - just that my own experiences doesn't appear to match his experiences.

--
Mats

[apistomaster]

I have been keeping and breeding wild and domestic Discus since 1969.
I think I consider Discus to be hardier than many others do.
That is why I consider the Discus and L128 or L200 about as hardy as the other.
Discus are actually pretty sturdy but have many more years worth of accumulated mythology behind them.

[PlatinumSM]

My L128s finally arrived! They ate like pigs right out of the bag and CHASED my Rocio away from the frozen shrimp as soon as they hit the tank bottom - talk about bullies! But seriously I think personality-wise they are a perfect match (and everyone has their own Cichlid Stone to defend, which is pretty cool to watch!)

I also got my Aqueon water changer and it is a lifesaver (and back saver) - now I can do BIG weekly water changes for all of my tanks without feeling like an old mule at the end of the day...

Thank you all for your help - I feel much better about my purchase knowing all the pros and cons and having done some research before taking the plunge!