L204 Breeding

[ridout]

Hello everybody, was wondering if anyone had any suggestions on cave sizes for L204s. I'm looking to get a group going soon so just doing some forward planning. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks to all that reply

Ridout

[MatsP]

Should be "big enough for the male to trap the female inside the cave". It's hard to say for sure what size that is, since it depends on the individual fish. I generally try to supply caves in a few different lengths, widths and other dimensions, that way, the male can choose the cave he likes best. Approximately 1.5x the length of the fish, 1 body width plus half a pectoral fin or so wide, and a little taller than the height of the fish is ROUGHLY right - but some variation around that will probably be needed.

I think Panaque species are breeding in wooden caves, if they are given a choice.

--
Mats

[Jackster]

Mature L204 need a large cave preferably wood with a hole at least 3"-4"
(8 - 10 cm) in diameter and a depth of about 10" (25 cm).

[MatsP]

Mature L204 need a large cave preferably wood with a hole at least 3"-4"
(8 - 10 cm) in diameter and a depth of about 10" (25 cm).

That's much larger than I would have expected. How big are the adults in this case?

--
Mats

[ridout]

Certainly not that big! Plus i only said that i'm planning to get a group, i only have a adult female for now and have ordered an adult male which is arriving in the new year too. cave wise, i have already made some oak caves with a 35mm hole and about 150mm in depth. should i make my oak caves bigger? if so, how big?

[Jackster]

Hobbyists typically buy 2"- 3" L204 not realizing how large they get.
The Cat-eLog says 5.1" but I recall my buddy saying his breeders are
more in the 5" - 6" range, either way, the male needs to trap the female
inside the cave so the cave must fit 2 adult fish so even at 5", I would
recommend a 10" deep cave. Most of the Ancistrus species I spawn choose
a ceramic cave with a rectangular opening of 1" tall by 1.5" wide and 6" deep.
Remember these fish are 3.5" average size.

Oh good news Stuby just called me back and the adult L204 breeders he has
are 6" and the oak cave he's using has a hole 2.5" in diameter and 10" deep.
And remember a 2.5" hole will quickly become 3" since L204 love to chew
on wood. So the hole in the cave is 64 mm dia. x 254 mm deep metric.

[ridout]

Thanks for the information.

[ridout]

could anyone help me with making oak caves with a hole roughly 60mm and depth of about 200mm? or sites that i can get wooden caves for L204's?

[Birger]

If you wish to use a hand drill to drill a hole this size in wood you are best to use a self feed bit similar to the one in the link shown, they can be bought in whatever size you wish. They do need a fairly robust drill to work properly, the material being drilled needs to be held solid and these bits have tendancy to catch and sort of try to rip your wrist off especially in the larger sizes(usually when you think it is going well, so be warned).

http://www.mytoolstore.com/dewalt/dew02-07.html

If using a drill press the below bit would be better, still need to hold the material solid or it can also catch and spin the material(another warning).

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-forstner-bit.htm

The main difference in the two bits is the tip of the bit, the self feed is made to pull itself into the material...if you use this bit in a drill press it will pull the material being drilled up off the table which is not good(yet another warning).

I use these bits often in my work so have a selection in my truck(come over I will help you out )...they are not for anyone who is unsure with the use of a drill.

I have these warnings because they are dangerous bits but these bits will do the job nicely in the right hands.

Birger

[ridout]

The ones on the link are perfect. I'll be ordering some of those through work Nice One!

I think in my spare time in the workshop i will be mostly making oak caves out off cuts.

Again thank you to all those who replied.

[Simon86]

My L204 are all arround 14cm. I've successfully breed them in clay caves.
Size is 25cm long, opening is 7cm and 4.5cm high. At least that's the cave they have chosen to breed in.
The other caves I have in the tank are similar size and most of the time every male has its specific cave.
I make those caves myself so the shape and size is always different...

Mine never went in any caves made by wood. Tried with bamboo and oak.

Cheers Simon

[ridout]

Thank you Simon.
The caves you had made your self? Did you mould them and have them kiln dried or did you make them out of old terracotta pots? Sorry for all the questions. just not getting many replies from people who have successfully breed L204. So i maybe asking more questions in the future.

Kind regards
Ridout

[Birger]

Have you seen this COTM http://www.planetcatfish.com/cotm/cotm. ... cle_id=307

Birger

[ridout]

The info i was after was generally about caves. It says nothing about the size of cave needed for the L204. I was just trying to pick people's brains about what they do, in their tanks. Don't get me wrong the information on the breeding logs are fantastic and is greatly appreciated, just cave sizes missing for the particular fish you are attempting to breed. Had i not posted my question, i would of been guessing and getting things totally wrong.

I am very greatful for all the info i have received.

Kind regards
Ridout

[Simon86]

Hey Ridout

I buy "wet" clay and mould it myself, yes. To kiln dry I can bring the caves to a local school building where they have the oven.
So after a rainy saturday sometimes it looks like this in my appartment:


That's the cave where I've breed them in:


My experience is, before L204 isn't almost fully grown out (so like 12 - 15cm) they don't use any caves at all. Once they are big enough, the males always sit in the caves and you can try to breed them...

Cheers Simon

[ridout]

Perfect!!
Thank you Simon.

[Birger Amundsen]

Hey Ridout

I buy "wet" clay and mould it myself, yes. To kiln dry I can bring the caves to a local school building where they have the oven.
So after a rainy saturday sometimes it looks like this in my appartment:


That's the cave where I've breed them in:


My experience is, before L204 isn't almost fully grown out (so like 12 - 15cm) they don't use any caves at all. Once they are big enough, the males always sit in the caves and you can try to breed them...

Cheers Simon

I would love to se picks. I had a colony of 15 WC, that I lost... And I have never heard of anyone breeding them in Norway so far:-)

[FISHNUTS]

Simon how long and at what temperature are the caves heated in the kiln for?

thanks
Shawn

[Simon86]

Hey Shawn
The clay I buy needs 1000 - 1300°C. I told the woman who does it for me to heat it with 1100°C so it gets a dark brown color.
Not sure about how long it takes. Think usually clay takes 24 hours....?

And some pics for Birger

Cheers Simon

[ridout]

All we need now simon is your tank pics.

[Farid]

hi there,
the magic cave size is always the width of the body plus one side fin. So the male gets in easily and can squeeze itself easy with both sidefins if needed...

http://veloofahren.ch/Aquarium/L204.htm

enjoy

farid

[Birger Amundsen]

[ridout]

That is AMAZING!!!
THANKYOU



did a quick google translate.
massive thanks again.

[krazyGeoff]

This has been a really informative thread.

Thanks everyone.

Cheers
Geoff