Cichlids & Synos...

davekuhn77 · Post by **davekuhn77** » 04 Oct 2003, 02:16

Ok, I currently have two Eupterus's and 2 Ocillifer's in a community tank.

I really would like to go with rift lake cichlids.

According to planetcatfish the Eupterus and Ocillifer should not exceed a pH of 7.5 and 8.0 respectively.

Both of these species should be fine with lake malawi cichlids right? If so, what pH should I keep the water at to make everyone happy?

Thanks....

Post by **Barbie** » 04 Oct 2003, 03:13

What is the pH of your water out of the tap? Seriously, in my experience, cichlids will easily adapt to 7.5 or so, and eupterus did just fine in my mother's tank in KC with liquid rock that came out of the tap at 8.4 and then buffered UP. The most important parameter will be stability, not an exact match to the conditions their 3 times removed relatives came out of. As long as your water has good buffering capacity, and is in the alkaline range, without being higher than 8.2, everyone should be just fine.

Of course, not everyone agrees with me on this one, but I've had great success with the cichlids I have kept over the years

Barbie

Post by **Dinyar** » 04 Oct 2003, 04:40

I agree with what Barbie says. While we try to keep our riverine Synodontis in softer water, we have several "overflow" riverine Synos in a large Tanganyika tank, and they seem to be doing fine. One negative observation on this is that riverine Synos are more reserved than Tanganyika Synos and cichlids, so they feel a bit overwhelmed by all the hustle and bustle around them. When we put them in as youngsters, they seem to adapt better and become less shy, but the older riverine fish stay hidden even when it's a carnival outside. We also found that a very few species (e.g., S. pleurops) don't take well to hard water. We keep our water at pH 7.8 (tap is 7.0) and do 50% water changes weekly.

Dinyar

Sid Guppy · Post by **Sid Guppy** » 04 Oct 2003, 11:20

ditto.

not all riverines like hard water, and more important; not all riverines like Riftcichlids.

Next to pleurops, I can add brichardi, contractus, nigriventris, alberti, decorus and flavitaeniatus to that list, safely.
These particular species will feel unconfortable or get mutilated to death (or something in between) when put in a Mbuna tank or so.

On the other hand, there are indeed many of the more robust species from the rivers that -with care- seem do to fine with both hard water, and boisterous cichlids.

next to eupterus and ocellifer, I think robbianus, nigrita, angelicus, schall, afrofischeri (wich shares a part of it's habitat with Victorian cichlids), obesus, notatus and nigromaculatus (wich shares a bit of it's habitat with Tanganyikans) can safely added to a Rifttank.

Again, like Dinyar and Barbie already said, take care with getting the syno's used to the Rift-water parameters, and if you rise the pH, do so carefully.

pturley · Post by **pturley** » 06 Oct 2003, 18:57

See my post in "Syno Tank".

Unless you have a larger tank ready to go, I don't think you should be adding any fish anytime soon.

Sincerely,
Paul E. Turley

davekuhn77 · Post by **davekuhn77** » 06 Oct 2003, 22:35

Thanks everyone for your input. I am glad to hear that the Syno's I have will do well in high pH tanks. Water out of the tap is 7.0 and Alk is 60 mg/Land the hardness is 60.

I have a 90 gallon tank that has been fixed up and I am going to move the synos in there (Paul, I appreciate your concern about them being in a 30g) and I am planning on stocking the tank with smaller cichlids that max out around 4 inches. At my local pet shops (2 of them) and at a highly reputable fish shop (http://www.absolutelyfish.com) they have had great success with Eutperus's sharing a tank with Lake Malawi Cichlids buffered with crushed coral. So this water may be "hard". More specifically, I am concerned about the Ocillifers because (1) they may not tolerate hard water and (2) they may exhibit aggression to Lake Malawi Cichlids. Any suggestions????

I also recognize that the syno's will eventually overstock this tank. When this happens, I will get a bigger tank or I will have to sell a couple of them.

I was going to use crushed coral as a buffer, but hardness may be an issue with these riverine species (esp Ocillefer). Any experience or insight here?

Maybe I should transfer the synos and do a riverine ecosystem with some river cichlids... I will have to give this some thought...........

davekuhn77 · Post by **davekuhn77** » 06 Oct 2003, 22:47

BTW, I have found large quantities of sperm, that could only be from a Syno in my tank.....

Post by **Dinyar** » 07 Oct 2003, 00:30

davekuhn77 wrote:I was going to use crushed coral as a buffer, but hardness may be an issue with these riverine species (esp Ocillefer). Any experience or insight here?

Maybe I should transfer the synos and do a riverine ecosystem with some river c*****ds... I will have to give this some thought...........

Two problems:

#1: Crushed coral is sharp and not good for fish like Synos that are constantly running their barbels across the substrate. If you can afford it, I would recommend Seachem coarse Onyx. Otherwise there are a variety of other high pH substrates suitable for Rift Lake Synos and cichlids, and less expensive than Onyx.

#2: Calciferous substrates will provide some pH support, but probably not enough and not quickly enough. Say you do 50% water changes weekly (as we do and as we would recommend you do), and say your tank water is at pH 8 and tap water is pH 7. Immediately after the water change, you'll have water that's closer to pH 7.0 than 8.0 (since pH is logarithmic). pH will gradually rise (though probably not back up to 8 in a week), but this bouncing pH will not be good for your fish. In short, you need to add something to the water you add back to the tank. You have two choices here: DIY mixes and commercially prepared ones. DIY is basically baking soda and Epsom salt.

davekuhn77 wrote:BTW, I have found large quantities of sperm, that could only be from a Syno in my tank.....

I doubt it, and will stop there.

Dinyar

davekuhn77 · Post by **davekuhn77** » 07 Oct 2003, 03:25

Dinyar,

Thanks for the heads up with the sharp nature of the crushed coral.

I have worked with hatcheries and I ensure you that I have found two sperm cases on two seperate ocassions. I assume they are Syno sperm cases becauses they are the only fish in the aquarium that I would imagine could produce that much of it....

Post by **Dinyar** » 07 Oct 2003, 04:09

AFAIK, Synos don't have sperm cases.

Dinyar

Post by **Silurus** » 07 Oct 2003, 08:34

Do you have woodcats in there? Woodcats would produce sperm cases.