Filtration Issue

[FunkyFredFrog]

My 1010mm x 600mm x 500mm tank gets a lot of poop on the bottom quickly.

I do have a large number of bottom feeders but I'm wanting to find a better alternative to my current filtration.

I have

1 x 10 inch pleco
1 x 7 inch black ghost knife
1 x 2.5 inch snowball pleco
1 x 4 inch sunshine pleco
3 x 1.75 inch corydora julii
3 x 0.75 inch pleco L333 juvenile
1 x 4 inch red tailed shark
5 x 1.5 inch popondetta forktail

I have a cannister filter - sera bioactive 250 but I've just realised this is only upto 250 litre and my tank is 300 litre. I also have a Fluval 2 internal filter running but this isn't really doing the job.

I am thinking of adding another cannister filter or a bigger one or undergravel filter - or even a bio wheel - are the bio wheels any better than an internal fluval etc?

What do you think would be the best solution?

[MatsP]

There are (I think) two problems here [aside from the stocking compatibility that I'll get to at the bottom]:
1. Poo collects on the bottom.

This is generally solved by having more circulation. A Fluval 2 doesn't provide that much circulation, so a bigger flow pump will be advantageous here.

2. Filter capacity.

Bigger external filters are almost a necessity if you have large fish - and at least some of your fish are already quite large, and some will grow up a lot from their current size.

Biowheel filters biggest advantage is that they provide good biological filtration, but their capacity to hold large mechanical media isn't exactly what they are famous for - not that you couldn't possibly design something with a biowheel and a large volume of media, just not what the manufacturers tend to do. And they are not often found in England - did you actually find someone selling these, or are you just browsing the web - they are more popular in the US, in my experience.

If it was me, I'd go for a Eheim 2217 - they cost around £100 - a bit more from your local shop, a bit less if you get it from an online store (but you may have to pay shipping from some of those), and are very basic in their design, but works very well. Make sure it's the "plus" model with the taps for the hoses - makes life a whole lot easier.

I don't think you can actually achieve "poo-free bottom" with large plecos in the tank [without constant monitoring and vacuuming at least], but you can perhaps get it better than what you have right now.

Now, the red tailed shark can be quite territorial about bottom-space, and they are a bit like a terrier: they don't mind going after a much bigger fish if they think the bigger fish intrudes on the territory... Not a great combination with medium-large plecos, and I'd expect the Hypancistrus to really struggle with this.

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Mats

[FunkyFredFrog]

In response - I've been listening to a few american podcasts in ref to the bio wheel thing

I've just seen the Eheim Wet/Dry cannister style filter. Whats the difference with these? Are they any better?

I do have a number of pumps in my tank for circulation - maybe a little too powerful I think - but there's plenty of circulation.

The red tail shark is scared of his own shadow though. He's never bothering anyone but he shouldnt be in the tank - he evaded me one day when I was moving some fish about - I found him in a tank that was supposed to be empty!

He doesn't really fit in though.....

PS anyone who is thinking of getting a common pleco - unless you have a massive tank don't! I had this pleco given to me in a 2 foot tank about a year ago and its now out growing my bigger tank. My LFS all have a few tanks full of 12-18 inch disowned ones!

[MatsP]

Wet n dry filters give a smoother finish - oh, no,that's wet'n'dry sandpaper... Wet'n'dry filters have the same basic idea as the biowheel, using air to oxygenate the water before biological filtration, your problem is (as far as I can understand) one about mechanical filtration. You want a filter to flow a lot of water, not necessarily the best possible bioligical filtration. So, something with a lot of space for "EhfiMech" (ceramic pasta-tubes) or coarse sponges would be the right thing, I think. Paying extra for something that gives you more biological (ammonia -> nitrite -> nitrate conversion) isn't going to improve your "substrate looks clean" factor - it may allow you to add more fish in the tank, but not get rid of "strings" on the floor. I suspect the culprit is mainly your common pleco, so getting that out of your tank is of course another easy solution to the original problem.

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Mats

[2wheelsx2]

IMO, you're better off doing more gravel vacuuming then getting another filter. Mats is right in that the internal filter isn't great, but nothing is going to clean up all that poo because vacuuming. I've resorted to 2 water changes a week instead of 1 big one because of this in my big pleco tank.

[andywoolloo]

I clean the poo in my big pl*co tank once a day, it's no big deal, takes about a few minutes, it all congregates in one area due to water flow so no biggie.

[FunkyFredFrog]

Does anyone have any experience either a Fluval 405 filter or an Eheim External Filter Professionel 3 2073?

I've been comparing the two online but really I'm not sure of which would be the best?

Eheim seem to be very well received but I don't know about the difference quality wise.

[MatsP]

Eheim makes excellent filters. I personally prefer the simpler Eheim Classic range - they cost less, and provide very good filtration, with no risk of bypassing the media.

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Mats

[DJ-don]

Does anyone have any experience either a Fluval 405 filter

I'm a person who tends to use fluval filters.
The fluval canisters are great and especially the 405 because of the sheer size of it.
You have more space for Bio and Chem filtration and the Mechanical Filtration is good too from what i find. It's easy to prime too. you just have to pull up and down on the lever ontop of the filter. it's a great filter
Personally i would give it a good 9 out of 10

I'm not too sure exactly on the eheim professional, but people really reccomend on the eheim classics.
I would say just the way the Classic works. Because the water goes through the top and then goes out the bottom.
It's a better way to filter i would say. If you dont get quite the jist of what i'm saying just look at This Link provided
[Edit] Or refer to what mats says about the classics

hope this helps!

[MatsP]

Because the water goes through the top and then goes out the bottom.

The other way around - in at the bottom, out at the top. This also helps prevent airlocks, as the water pushing into the filter at the bottom is of higher pressure than the output side at the top (through gravity). And they have only one part that ever moves, so there isn't much that can go wrong with them.

In my current 9 tank setup, I have two Eheim Classic filters (one 2217, one 2215), one Eheim Pro2 2028 and two TetraTec (one EX700, one EX1200). In my fishroom, which I have no access to (because divorce mess) there is/was two Eheim Classic, and two TetraTec ones. The only NEW filters I've bought recently as an Eheim Classic 2217. I bought one TetraTec EX700 for £18 at the last Catfish Study Group Auction, and an Eheim 2215 for £25 (I think) at the Auction before that.

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Mats

[2wheelsx2]

I've used all kinds. Fluval 204, Eheim 2213, Eheim Pro II 2028, and now Eheim Pro 3e 2078. The Pro 3 line is the easies to use and prime of them all. I hate the Fluval hoses and the way the adapter connects disconnects. Other than that, and the bypass, the Fluvals are very good bang for buck.

[Chouin]

To solve this problem on my 125g tank, here is what I did.
On one side of the tank I have a Koralia 4 circulating pump, about 6" from the bottom sending water to the other side of the tank.
On the other side, I have 2 powerhead (old Hagen model 402 and 802) attached to 4 sponge filers (Hydro V).
Twice a week when I do water change, I clean the sponge, it work fine.