Newly Adopted & Ill Eupterus

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GoldenFeather
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Re: Newly Adopted & Ill Eupterus

Post by GoldenFeather »

Jools wrote:Totally agree with Mats around pH adjustment products, they are fiddly at best.

To tidy up a few Q's (and from a man in the land of soft water). This may be more important if you find your rainwater is good but soft too. Adding coral (collected) isn't a great idea if only because it tends to be sharp and your doesn't have any scales. If it tries to hide it may scratch, injure and infect.

I suspect in Hawaii most rocks found are igneous, so not going to help with water params (or hinder).

Adding some (as oppossed to changing out with) coral sand (essentially crushed sea shells and corals) to existing substrate is what I do. I have water that dissolves an oyster shell in about a year. For some of my fishes this is ideal, for others I either mix some coral gravel in with the regular inert gravel or I add shells (I like seafood) or put a mesh bag of it in the filter (easier to remove). This has the effect of rather stopping the pH drop below a point (I can get to pH4.5 if I neglect a tank) rather than raise it to a level which 100% coral gravel would tend to do.

Hope that helps.

Jools

PS It's all about no big changes, but lots of good small ones!
Okay. It did have small tied bunch of sharp coral which I removed first week finding it sharp. I think that's probably where he got the cuts on his sides. The coral we find here has been worn down in the break waters tumbling for years I suspect. They're normally very smooth but sometimes we do get more whole looking coral. They usually look like a rounded piece of zeolite.

I have some rough stones up to 1.5"diam I was thinking of using in the 55g. They aren't smoothed like river stones.. there are some corners but no points and real sharp edges. No sharper than the piece of lava like rock in there now. Could he live with this? I like the idea of adding sand to the rough. I assume sand is okay for him, otherwise you wouldn't recommend it. But I'd like to better understand how he deals with it intake – when he's eating and hunting. I've seen him pass softened shrimp pellet out his gills because he doesn't like them. At least I think that's what I saw. It raised the same question for me. How does he do that?

Is there a limit to the amount of coral you can put in the tank system?

RE: 10 gallon substrate – has a black and white gravel. The white is a quartz. And at a closer look I'm fairly certain the black is carbon. Do I need to be concerned/remove it. I've read that some are of the opinion that carbon in the water for extended periods of time will eventually release toxins they're holding back into the water??? I've also read that it can be cleaned/reactivated with heat, 500° for an hour???

Thanks Jools, very much... GF
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Re: Newly Adopted & Ill Eupterus

Post by MatsP »

I very much doubt the substrate in your tank is activated carbon - it is something used in a filter, not part of your substrate - probably a black form of quartz or some other black stone material. And no, activated carbon doesn't release what it has captured - that's a myth. Once saturated, they do not adsorb any more of what they normally attract - some small amount may "dislodge" and another piece being picked up in it's place, but essentially, it's not a problem as such. I suspect whoever made that bit up in the first place was trying to sell more activated carbon.

Smooth bits of coral (which coral sand essentiallly is) will be fine in your tank. But not a huge amount - a few handfuls or so is fine. Use a KH test to see what the levels are. If the KH level drops too low (under 50 ppm/about 3dKH), then you know you need to add some more. It's not a huge problem if you put a little bit too much in there - but you don't really want your tank to be a hard-water environment - neither of your fish will like it.

The advantage with soft water is that it is easier to "fix" than hard water. Hard water contains lots of dissolved solids (high TDS), and to get that OUT is difficult. It's easier to add a little bit, if it's needed. So whilst it may be a bother to you right now, it's a better situation than having to spend lots of money (and waste a lot of water) on using Reverse Osmosis water to make hard water into soft water.

--
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Re: Newly Adopted & Ill Eupterus

Post by GoldenFeather »

MatsP wrote:As long as the "new" water is similar to the "old" water in terms of pH [1] and temperature, it will be fine to do very large water changes every day - there are some breeders that want their fish to grow quickly that change 80% of the water twice a day! The more frequent you do your water changes, the more similar the "new" and the "old" water will be [if it's from the same original source], as there is less buildup of "stuff" that changes the water parameters.

Bear in mind also that you have fairly large fish in a small tank. The consequences of that is that the water quality changes quite quickly, and any water parameters directly related to the waste-production of the fish will affect for example pH. The waste production lowers the pH in the tank - how much depends on what the KH level is - this is the "balance" that keeps thep pH stable. If you have low KH, then the water will drop the pH quite quickly.

There is a guideline of "1 inch of fish per gallon of water", so you may say that the tank isn't that much overstocked. However, that applies to small, avergage shape fish. You have one large fish that is quite bulky. A bigger tank will stay more stable.

[1] Technically, pH isn't the most important factor. The important factor is "osmotic pressure", which means the amount of minerals/salts in the water - this is also often called "Total Dissolved Solids" or "TDS". Fish, generally speaking, don't like this to change suddenly. Because in most natural circumstances, pH is directly reflecting the TDS - it is technically possible to come up with combinations that are similar TDS but dramatically different pH, but this only happens if you either have very weird minerals in the ground around your water source [not the ground around the pipe, but aroudn the well, river or lake where the water is originally sourced]. It is unlikely that you have such a situation.

--
Mats
Thank You Very Very much Mats, This was a very helpful post.

I've bought a KH test kit tonight. I'm beginning to understand it a little. Your dialogue's helpful. *Everyone's has been and continues so... I'm indebted.

RE: New tank and old media – I'll do what you'd said in the last post ie: add the old filter to the other two that came with the tank. (Aqua Tech's PH (capacity ??) haven't looked yet) I've put the old filter bag and its carbon into a ziplock. I won't be setting up the tanks water for a couple days yet (glass in bad shape need blades). If I were to put it in the fridge, would remain alive and health and useful to support the bio-cycle cycling? If not, is there a way to do so or should I just dump the carbon and clean the bag for later use? I did run it under some tap water now that I think on it. But it had no effect on it, at all. Still, algae is pretty thick on it.

I'd like find out what bacterial product is used by/recommend by you and/or others here. I have Stress Zyme but have read several poor reviews on its inadequate abilities. I also found several people recommending "Bio-Zyme" and I read a post somewhere that recommended a different brand that began with an 'N' I think, but am not certain? But can't find that post now.

RE: Heat – Can the Fluval (tronic) 100w be of use in the new tank until the other arrives. That I can't use in the 10g to heat the 55g until a stronger one comes in?

RE: TDS and wells...? We're on well water. How could I test for these solids. Is there a kit. Perhaps send a sample of dirt to the University? I could find out if anyone's done an EA in recent years I guess? I use two different wells actually. The one my house is connect to is chlorinated. The other is just pure and we just drink it.

Checking a water quality report I found this: " Increased TDS from recharge by irrigation water containing salts, .... Maui have the highest TDS concentrations of the four largest islands. ..... In southeast and east, TDS in the sandstones are less than 1000 mglL in the .". I haven't found any numbers to mineral and salt titles yet. And I haven't read anything yet that exhibits what this looks like on a national average. I'd like to though, now that you've brought it to my attention.

I'm in East Maui, unfortunate.ly our waters are largely affected by agricultural diversion issues; created by farmers on the other side... argh. Well, I'm concerned tho' I actually don't understand what it is that you were trying to explain to me regarding pH vs TDS. Is there an article I can read that you know of?
Mahalo, GF
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Re: Newly Adopted & Ill Eupterus

Post by MatsP »

Right, so TDS is ALL the minerals/salts that are part of your water supply. The simple way to test this is by using a TDS meter - they aren't very expensive, I have two [1], and they both cost between $20-25 - the more expensive one has a thermometer. A TDS meter will give you an approximate indication of the mineral content in the water. The "proper" way to measure TDS is to evaporate off the water (traditionally, put the water in a pre-weighed container at 180'C until all water is gone). This will be more precise, but requires very finely tuned scales (or large amount of water - after all, we're talking about milligrams per 1000g of water - a teaspoon in a 25g tank or so). Unless you have a contract to do this regularly, I'd expect this costs more for a single test than a TDS meter.

Now, in general, TDS relate to pH in that higher TDS -> higher pH. However, this applies when there is calciferous (chalk) material in the ground. That's not the case if the mineral content is for example runoff from a farmers field that was fertilized with an industrial fertilizer. This may alter the pH in either way - or not much at all, but it will CERTAINLY raise the TDS. Another consequence of fertilizer in your water supply is that it will probably contain nitrate - this is not great for fish... What the ground is like at the surface around your well is probably not very important - it's what the water coming out of the well is like that matter - so measure that, with a TDS meter or similar. And check the nitrate level (needs another test kit...)

In Shane's world, there are a couple of articles that talks about some of the water chemistry and parameters, and how everything else "works" in the tank.
http://www.planetcatfish.com/shanesworl ... ing+Basics (I think this may have been posted previously in this thread)
http://www.planetcatfish.com/shanesworl ... he+Catfish

Heater: Any heater is better than none. A small heater may not be able to reach the set temperature, and will stay on permanently. But it's going to raise the temperature compared to no heater, so please use it.

Filter/media: I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say. I'm talking about reusing the existing filter that is in the tank where the fish are now... Putting it in the fridge might be a good idea - I've heard of people FREEZING their good filter media to preserve it, and whilst it's not the same as taking existing, fresh, filter media from one filter to another, it's certainly not a bad idea. Make sure there is a good amount of air in there. You should really never wash your filter media in tap-water (especially not if it's chlorinated water). Anything that improves over the "sterile" filter media that you get in a new tank is of course helpful. Filter media shouldn't have algae, tho'. That means that light is getting into the filter, which is not recommended. If it's got "sludge" and "slime" on it, that's good. Algae is NOT good.

I have not had any experience with "bacteria in a bottle". Results I've seen are varied, both between products and within use of the same product. This is unlikely to be caused by variation in the production, but may depend on any number of factors in the tank. If it's easy to get and doesn't cost much, sure, by all means try some product that you believe works - it's unlikely to cause any harm. But it may also have no effect at all.

[1] I thought I'd lost the first one, only to find it, like you do, two days after I bought a new one - which was about three weeks after I lost the first one... :(

--
Mats
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Re: Newly Adopted & Ill Eupterus

Post by andywoolloo »

the only bacteria booster/new tank helper I'd recommend is Tetra Safe Start as it's the same recipe as freshwater Bio Spira. Or it is the old freshwater bio spira, tetra bought it out.

The SW version is still Bio spira but the freshwater one is now Tetra Safe Start.

I haven't cycled a tank from scratch in years but when I have used it, i can say it keeps the NI and or A from sky rocketing out of control. I still test and do water changes. I guess I am saying it doesn't hurt and it does assist some.

when you have an existing tank or tanks you can jump start the cycle of a new tank by using some of the filter media, decorations, substrate etc from an existing cycled mature tank. Just make sure you do not take too much to jump the original tank into a mini cycle.

remember to test the water often and do partial water changes as needed to keep the Ammonia and or Nitrite at or below 0.25ppm , and remember to have the water going back in be as close to same temp as water you took out and remember to add your dechlor.
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Re: Newly Adopted & Ill Eupterus

Post by GoldenFeather »

MatsP wrote: Heater: Any heater is better than none. A small heater may not be able to reach the set temperature, and will stay on permanently. But it's going to raise the temperature compared to no heater, so please use it.

Filter/media: I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say. I'm talking about reusing the existing filter that is in the tank where the fish are now... Putting it in the fridge might be a good idea - I've heard of people FREEZING their good filter media to preseve it, and whilst it's not the same as taking existing, fresh, filter media from one filter to another, it's certainly not a bad idea. Make sure there is a good amount of air in there. You should really never wash your filter media in tap-water (especially not if it's chlorinated water). Anything that improves over the "sterile" filter media that you get in a new tank is of course helpful. Filter media shouldn't have algae, tho'. That means that light is getting into the filter, which is not recommended. If it's got "sludge"and "slime" on it, that's good. Algae is NOT good. --
Mats
Hi Mats,

Thanks for the great response. I'll definitely check out the pages you've cited. And I'll shop for a TDS meter. I can test the Nitrates for now. Tomorrow.

Regarding the filter media. I had just changed out the filter bag w/carbon for a new one and fresh carbon. But I saved it in a sealed bag. I've put it in the fridge. The freezer seems like a good idea but I'm a little concerned with killing bacteria. It (freezer) can be a great way to kill bacteria, normal bad bacteria can be killed if frozen, or heat over 140° which concerns me. Perhaps it won't kill beneficial bacteria.

That said, I'm trying to preserve it in case it will be needed to help with the 55g set up, unless someone advises against it. I had left it out for 24 hours, but the weather was cool... I'm not sure how to tell if its still healthy and thriving. I would think it could still be alright but also know it could have developed bad bacteria while not in the fridge. And the cold temp of the fridge would likely just arrest what is there.

The sponge in the well of this filter is full with, I guess sludge? Its a darkish olive color, I just assumed it was algae. But now that you mention a difference, I can see it. The color isn't a brighter green like the algae and its body and texture is very different as well.

Thank you for all the great information and knowledge sharing you've been doing. For teaching me about TDS... I really appreciate it. I'll get some study time in over the weekend.

I haven't tested water yet today... but will post the numbers when I do. Thanks all...
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Re: Newly Adopted & Ill Eupterus - re: Nui's Breathing

Post by GoldenFeather »

Hi... If you've read through, you know I've been doing small water changes about every three days as that's when I begin to see a decline. But that changed a few days ago. And I did a consecutive change a couple days in a row. Still, here now on the second day since a change, Nui's in what I'm thinking is decline mode.

He becomes far less active and his the timing of his breath increases. Currently, if I've calculated correctly he's breathing 96x's per minute. This relaxes some with the water changes.

I'm going to test what I can and get the numbers to you next and then I'll hold on any actions until I get some direction from Jools, Naturalart or Mats if available...

Thank you, GF & Nui!

PS: I made a sm. donation, but think I may have done it incorrectly? Could you let me know how to confirm this? Thanks
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Re: Newly Adopted & Ill Eupterus - re: Nui's Breathing

Post by GoldenFeather »

GF wrote: I'm going to test what I can and get the numbers to you next and then I'll hold on any actions until I get some direction from Jools, Naturalart or Mats if available...
Okay, I've tested the water after a feeding:

pH – 6.0; Ammonia – 1.+; Nitrites – 0.25 & Nitrates – 0

I should note that with this feeding I added bloodworms. I've held off a few days because I'd noticed an extreme increase in his breath count when I'd included it in his diet two days in a row. Plus the water smelt a little fishy (no tests @ the x). Its happened again this time but not severe. After he eats bloodworms he breathes more rapidly. Is this normal? (I think he could eat the entire bottle). I fed him about 8 shakes all together with it open to 3 clicks. He also had the tropical flakes and is now working on an algae wafer.

I intend to have the 55g tank up and running by Sunday. I've decided take care of the calcium and hard water marks (if that's what they are) with the steam vs a razor; ( I'm a clutz – will end up in an ER) – since I haven't heard any negatives in regards to using it.

I don't have any decorations but want to at least find a way to provide Nui with a sense of security. I have access to lava rock, smooth basalt and giant bamboo. I assume lava is okay since its in our fresh water lakes, rivers and streams. And there is a piece inside their tank now. I could gather from freshwater stream beds vs ocean areas if it isn't possible to remove the salt from objects from that environ. I could make a hide-away with flat stacked rocks or the bamboo? In regards the bamboo, I have dried or fresh? Any suggestions? please...

BTW: someone mentioned that I was likely mistaken in regards to carbon in their current substrate but I don't think so. I'll take a photo tomorrow to get a second opinion. I think it likely to have come from the filter at some point since I did find the bag inside with holes and barely held together with a crumbling rubber-band. And, the carbon that was in the original bag, was sand like only. No chunks. The stuff on the bottom is in sm chunks to flakes. Should I get it out of there??? I'm concerned because the instructions with the new media advise to rinse the new bio-bag well to remove any carbon debris before putting it in the filter.

Goodnight...GF
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Re: Newly Adopted & Ill Eupterus re: Adjusting Water

Post by GoldenFeather »

I forgot to mention that I do have a couple things that are supposed to help with the Ammonia levels. We've got: apprx. 2 TB of "Zeolite" chips & an 8-pk of "Jungle Labs Ammonia Clear Tank Buddies". Given our current circumstance, I'm concerned with my inability to maintain any stability. Unless I stop feeding him?

I could take that route, but I really hate to. His stomach is no longer depressed, he' s gaining weight, looking much better (I'll upload new photos tomorrow if can). But he's gone for so very many months without any food at all that I don't want to take it away. It's such an obvious joy for him and Li'i.

That said, know your time has not been wasted either. I'm real clear on the objective of maintaining my aquarium's water balance without the use of them at all. That this is the ideal and goal. I have definitely made it mine.

Thanks all
again.. GF/Nui/Li'i
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Re: Newly Adopted & Ill Eupterus

Post by MatsP »

Your tank is cycling - your "good bacteria" in the filter can't cope - although you say you tested just after feeding, so check again! However, zero nitrate indicates that the tank is in "cycling" state. This has consequences regarding moving the filter onto the new tank, but in essence a larger tank will do better when you are cycling, as you have more water to dilute the waste (ammonia) from the fish,so it takes longer to reach really harmful levels (above 0.5ppm is BAD).

The best way to remove calcium (limescale) deposits is acid. Vinegar aka acetic acid (the stronger the better), or if you can get hold of some stronger acid, such as muriatic acid aka hydrochloric acid [careful - goggles and gloves recommended], it will be much easier. With weaker acid like vinegar, you may need a bit of mechanical effort as well - a "windowscraper" that you'd use when you have painted the window-frames and got some on the glass is a good tool here - the one I used to have takes "utility knife" (aka "Stanley knife") blades.

I have "caves" made from bamboo. You can either make "tunnels" or "caves", using the fact that bamboo is "segmented" - so that makes a natural "end" on a piece. I have used dried bamboo, and I would think that's better. You will have to weigh it down, as it naturally floats until it gets waterlogged...

I'd think lava rock is OK too, as long as it's reasonably "old" - fresh I'd expect it to have some disolvable components that aren't good for your tank.

If it is carbon in the gravel, I don't see it doing any real harm. And you are moving the fish to a new tank soon anyways...

So to comment to your previous post: Breathing 96 times a minute seems pretty rapid. Not a great sign. However, both ammonia and nitrite which you have measured, are bad for fish, and particularly nitrite will affect the fishs' breathing. Keep doing water changes - twice a day if you can, and I'd say at least 25-30% water each time. Go light on the feeding - this increases the ammonia production from the fish, and more ammonia is not a good thing for the fish... It's a case of the "lesser of two evils". Ammonia kills fish quickly. Starvation kills the fish, but it takes a long time. So feed a tiny bit, but not a lot. We can work on "fattening up" once they are in a safe water environment.

Donation: I think Jools is the only one that can see that, and it only gets recorded manually - so Jools probably just haven't got round to it - I suspect he's out christmas shopping! ;)

--
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Re: Newly Adopted & Ill Eupterus

Post by Jools »

GoldenFeather wrote:PS: I made a sm. donation, but think I may have done it incorrectly? Could you let me know how to confirm this? Thanks
MatsP wrote:Donation: I think Jools is the only one that can see that, and it only gets recorded manually - so Jools probably just haven't got round to it - I suspect he's out christmas shopping! ;)
I've not seen it and so I do not think it was completed. If it was, you would have got an email from paypal to say so. Try again if you would like and let me know (PM if needs be) if you get stuck.

You also HAVE to register your new aquarium and Syno using "My Cats" - this has to be one of the most discussed catfish of the year! :-)

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Re: Newly Adopted & Ill Eupterus

Post by naturalart »

Yes, as Jools said "one of the most discussed catfish of the year" what a lucky fish.

just a couple points:
since your going to try and steam clean the tank (which I wouldn't recommend), which I assume is a used glass tank?, I would try and keep the steam spray away from the joints. Extreme temperature changes will cause problems in my opinion. But then I've never steam cleaned an aquarium.
Missing a day here and there on feeding shouldn't be a problem. Many people feed/love their fish to death.
I would focus more on the condition of your filter sponge media than charcole, zeolite, etc., spent charcole in your tank isn't a bonus. If its in your gravel, gravel vac it out as you go. Waterchanges are your first best requirement in terms of waterquality. Nothing circumvents that. Bacterial jumpstart' products are ok, I guess, but you don't need them.

I would get that cat into your larger tank as soon as is possible. But take your time doing it
#:-S
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Re: Newly Adopted & Ill Eupterus

Post by GoldenFeather »

MatsP wrote:Your tank is cycling - your "good bacteria" in the filter can't cope - although you say you tested just after feeding, so check again!

We can work on "fattening up" once they are in a safe water environment.
--
Mats
Mats... you're the BEST! Thank you for being such a good friend to these fish all fishes I suspect... its invaluable. I will test water this morning and do the first water change when the day heats up. I'll post the numbers and then again this evening...
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Re: Newly Adopted & Ill Eupterus

Post by GoldenFeather »

Jools wrote:
You also HAVE to register your new aquarium and Syno using "My Cats" - this has to be one of the most discussed catfish of the year! :-)

Jools
just a couple points:
since your going to try and steam clean the tank (which I wouldn't recommend), which I assume is a used glass tank?, I would try and keep the steam spray away from the joints. Extreme temperature changes will cause problems in my opinion. But then I've never steam cleaned an aquarium.
Missing a day here and there on feeding shouldn't be a problem. Many people feed/love their fish to death.
I would focus more on the condition of your filter sponge media than charcole, zeolite, etc., spent charcole in your tank isn't a bonus. If its in your gravel, gravel vac it out as you go. Waterchanges are your first best requirement in terms of waterquality. Nothing circumvents that. Bacterial jumpstart' products are ok, I guess, but you don't need them.

I would get that cat into your larger tank as soon as is possible. But take your time doing it
Good Morning Everyone,

We are so sooo thankful for the time and consideration that's so generously given here on Planet Catfish. Your expertise is what will save his life and I know he appreciates it. I need to get a photo up today so you can see his improvement. Even tho' I'm causing his continued suffering, he continues striving for life. He goes and rests in his space behind the tree and rock, always keeping his eye between the wood and leaves so he can watch me. He pulls himself out to do some swimming and to eat. Becomes quite voracious at the latter. And at night is enjoying the covered privacy, staying beneath the warm water... putting his tummy to it once it cools down. Nui enjoys life... I just want to get things right for him. I couldn't do it without you. Thank you so much.

I'm taking all of your advisement and directives. I'll do two water changes a day. I'm not real worried about stressing them. They seem to enjoy it if I take my time. Test and post. Slow down on the feeding. Remove the carbon from the gravel. Not steam clean the aquarium... Your point about the glued glass-ends makes great sense Naturalart and et cetera. I'll check my Paypal acct... thanks for the heads up Jools.

Question: I have the bio-bag/carbon on cartridge still in the fridge. Held onto it just in case I was making a mistake. I didn't freeze it worried about killing the bacteria. I had had it out for one day tho' only putting in the fridge yesterday. However, I have had it in a new ziplock since taken out. So, it is still wet. Oh, I made a mistake and ran it under the faucet. I was going by the instructions that came with it when putting it in the filter for the first time - to remove any carbon debris. I didn't rub or squeeze under the faucet, just wanted to see if the stuff on it would fall off. It was a quick thing. I didn't realize that what is in the filter well and on the sponge and bio-fiber is not algae but sludge and that that's a good thing... do I have that right?

When I do this next, if I have it right, I need to clean it in tank water (taken out) when I do clean it. Do I just put new carbon in the old bag? Do I just pull out the cartridge and then get the old carbon out? Or would it just fall out in a bucket of water when turned upside down, with a little help? Yeah, the box instructions are actually helpful are they. They instruct to change this out completely each month. We bought a years worth I think which is okay... But now I'm wondering if reuse of the bag is better? Or is the box correct but only once the water is stable?

BTW, I didn't clean the sponge at all. All that said... should I put the old bag back in? Would that help? Thanks a Googol!

I guess I better register Nui too. I hadn't realized.... I'd love to... He really humbles me.

Boundless Goodness in All Your Lives,

Nui, Li'i, GF & Family
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Re: Newly Adopted & Ill Eupterus

Post by GoldenFeather »

Jools wrote: You also HAVE to register your new aquarium and Syno using "My Cats" - this has to be one of the most discussed catfish of the year! :-)

Jools
Jools... What is the word count limit in the husbandry notes section on the "My Cats" registration? I need to know how much to edit out of my boasting over how stupendously inestimably inexplicably wonderful Nui is! (((smiles)))
GF
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Re: Newly Adopted & Ill Eupterus

Post by MatsP »

I think it's actually a character count rather than words. And it's not very long.

Actually, you can write quite a lot in there.
I managed to fit this in
Test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890
before I gave up trying to "break" it.

--
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Re: Newly Adopted & Ill Eupterus

Post by GoldenFeather »

MatsP wrote:I think it's actually a character count rather than words. And it's not very long.

Actually, you can write quite a lot in there.
before I gave up trying to "break" it.
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Woh. Thanks Mats... I must've been doing something wrong. Will try again...
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Re: Newly Adopted & Ill Eupterus

Post by naturalart »

Reusing the bio bag if you can is good. I do believe in recycling. Maybe give the carbon a light rinse to rid it of carbon dust. Once its running fairly clear, dump it in.

It's really important to keep your sponge free of sludge. Having sludge in your filter as opposed to algea is a good thing. Means your keeping the light out of the filter. Having sludge in your filter as oppose to no sludge is a bad thing. When you clean the filter, doesn't have to be "spic-n-span" but get the sludge out.

Take some of the old water put it in a bucket. Take the sponge and give it a series of good squeezes and swish it around. this will release the gunk/sludge. Take the sponge and give it some good whacks on the inside bucket wall. Then another series of squeezes. The aim is to clear the pores of the sponge of all gunk. Water can pass through and good bacteria can multiply.

When you move Nui to the big tank, take the old 'rinsed' sponge and plop it into the new filter for a day or so. Also add a few pints of the old tank water. Presto! instant culture.

Whats a googol?
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Re: Newly Adopted & Ill Eupterus

Post by Jools »

GoldenFeather wrote:What is the word count limit in the husbandry notes section on the "My Cats" registration?
It's a TEXT column with a maximum length of 65535 (2^16 - 1) characters.

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Re: Newly Adopted & Ill Eupterus

Post by MatsP »

naturalart wrote:Whats a googol?
A enormously large number, 10 to the power of 100, or a 10 000000000 000000000 000000000 000000000 000000000 000000000 000000000 000000000 000000000 000000000. A much bigger number than a thousand or a million...

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Re: Newly Adopted & Ill Eupterus

Post by GoldenFeather »

MatsP wrote:Your tank is cycling - your "good bacteria" in the filter can't cope - although you say you tested just after feeding, so check again! However, zero nitrate indicates that the tank is in "cycling" state. This has consequences regarding moving the filter on to the new tank, but in essence a larger tank will do better when you are cycling, as you have more water to dilute the waste (ammonia) from the fish,so it takes longer to reach really harmful levels (above 0.5ppm is BAD).

So to comment to your previous post: Breathing 96 times a minute seems pretty rapid. Not a great sign. However, both ammonia and nitrite which you have measured, are bad for fish, and particularly nitrite will affect the fishs' breathing. Keep doing water changes - twice a day if you can, and I'd say at least 25-30% water each time. Go light on the feeding - this increases the ammonia production from the fish, and more ammonia is not a good thing for the fish... It's a case of the "lesser of two evils". Ammonia kills fish quickly. Starvation kills the fish, but it takes a long time. So feed a tiny bit, but not a lot. We can work on "fattening up" once they are in a safe water environment.
--
Mats


Matts,

I was only able to get to one water change today and did a 40%, moving their objects and cleaned the gravel fairly well. I tested the water this evening.

Test level results: pH ~ 6.6+; NH3/NH4 ~ <2.0; NO3 ~ >0.0 ~ NO4 ~ 80

I. was. RELIeveDh... to find I had messed up last night (at'sa a 1st). I hadn't followed the instructions properly – I hadn't vigorously shaken the NO4 test fluid for 30 sec's after the 1st-10 drops ='ing the ZERO Nitrates. Rather, I shook the 1st vile and the test fluid, not at all. I was surprised/disappointed to learn we that particular reading meant we were cycling. Still, my numbers are still BAD. I'll do another change in the a.m. and again p.m. Now that I've done a good cleaning I can take a couple days, especially with a drop in meal amounts

t meant the tank was cycling. I had felt pretty confident we had a bio-cycle established. NO4/80 is positive? I'm unable at this point to interpret these results yet, it's still Greek.

I am worried about the Ammonia... it went up! What did I do to cause this jump in less than 18 hrs? Could it be that I fed Nui bloodworms last night? It's the only thing different in our regimen I can think of.

I confirmed today that Li'i is a male and that he is bothering Nui. I will definitely have to separate them. Unfortunately. Unfortunately too I think I caused the aggression. After cleaning the gravel I was trying to do a little rearranging for Nui. Haven't changed much at all (except moving three sharp pieces of coral) since we adopted them. Nui was helping actually. I'd slowly move an object wait for him to check it out and he'd either like it or not. He did. I moved the two large objects to each side of the tank opening up the middle and creating two hiding places for him. My guess is that he really liked it – taking to the new tunnel it made on the other side, occupying it right away.

Turning to work on something and returning after less than a minute, Li'i was all over him. His head, back, sides... wherever he could get a hold on him as he moved. And, the little sucker wasn't at all intimidated by me trying to shoo him off. I mean he did but he resisted and persisted. I had to take the net and move him away. Twice. I could only conclude the rearrangement was upsetting him. As soon as I put things back, including "His" hideyhole, it stopped and din't happen again, yet. That I know of. I'll be checking from time to time through the night. I'm a bit worried about this as I know his um...'suck' for lack of another word, is strong. They pull their body weight all over the place with their mouth alone..

This is a distressing eventuality become present. I'm looking for a good tub I can set him up in until the move. Regarding he move, we have a delay I think. I forgot to check the media until you brought it up yesterday. Things slipping through the cracks everywhere. Media is with the filters but all of them well used with some missing. Just trusting the guy I bought from, he said they're in great running condition. One of them I know is the Aqua Tech PF's: 30-60 the other either: a 20-40 or 10-20. I need some sponge for sure and new fiber cartridge replacements. Two sponges are still on good shape. Should I boil these I have on hand to set up and get going? I'm also low on stress coat. Certainly not enough for the 55g. I'll be able to make it to ghe other side if feeling better. I'd also like to figure out if I can replace the carbon inside them.

Need to close to catch some sleep after doing another water bag. Oh, I fed them about 5 p.m. Only about 5/6 little shake-outs of the Tetra Tropical Flakes which Nui loves and an H.A. Wafer.

Thank you, thank you, thank you...

GF
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Re: Newly Adopted & Ill Eupterus

Post by MatsP »

When you say NO3, you mean NO2 (nitrate), and NO4 is NO3 (nitrate), right?

Under ideal circumstances, NO3 should be as low as possible, but it is the final step of the "destruction of ammonia" that you can reasonably achieve in an aquarium, so it will rise. Have you tested the nitrate levels of your tap-water?

In nature, nitrate is then either taken up by plants or destroyed by anaerobic (oxygen free) bacteria - this releases nitrogen back into the atmosphere. But this doesn't happen in the home aquaria.

But worse is that you have ammonia in the water - that is definitely not good, and it still indicates that you haven't got the beneficial bacteria that break down the ammonia into nitrite and then nitrate. These are essential for the fish health.

The source of the ammonia is protein being broken down in the metabolic system - either in the fish, or "rotting food bacteria". It's not particularly important WHAT the food is, if it's got protein in it, it will produce ammonia. In an established aquarium with adequate filtration, it's not a big problem, because the beneficial bacteria in the filter will render the ammonia much less harmful by converting it into nitrate.

At this point in time, I'm not sure how much drawback it would be to move one of the fish to a new tank, just to separate them - after all, the tank is cycling anyways. It's not ideal, but it's probably better for at least your syno, as it's being chewed on by your algae-eater.

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Re: Newly Adopted & Ill Eupterus

Post by naturalart »

Thanks Mats, so its just shorthand for "googolplex" I guessing?
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Re: Newly Adopted & Ill Eupterus

Post by MatsP »

No, a googolplex is 10 to the power of a googol, and even with copy'n'paste, I'm not gooing to write out the number of zeros in that! ;)

Confirmed by Wikipedia:
A googolplex is ten raised to the power of one googol: it is a large number. In the documentary Cosmos, astronomer and broadcast personality Carl Sagan estimated that writing a googolplex in base-10 numerals (i.e., 1 followed by a googol of zeroes) would be physically impossible, since doing so would require more space than the known universe provides.
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Re: Newly Adopted & Ill Eupterus

Post by GoldenFeather »

Jools wrote:
GoldenFeather wrote:What is the word count limit in the husbandry notes section on the "My Cats" registration?
It's a TEXT column with a maximum length of 65535 (2^16 - 1) characters.

Jools
Thanks Jools, Okay... I may just be going backwards. Do I need to register myself as well, or perhaps the tanks first? This is the message I get:
SQL ERROR [ mysql4 ]

Data too long for column 'my_notes' at row 1 [1406]

An SQL error occurred while fetching this page. Please contact the Board Administrator if this problem persists.
I tried again this morning. I'll look into things a bit later to see if I should do some other registering. Sorry about that. I was so caught up in getting help, I've overlooked protocols here. I'll fix it soonest.

Have a Chee Filled Day,

GF
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Re: Newly Adopted & Ill Eupterus

Post by GoldenFeather »

Have a Cheer Filled Day
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Re: Newly Adopted & Ill Eupterus

Post by andywoolloo »

hows the water readings? Ammonia , NItrate?

you need to keep testing and keep doing partial water changes to keep the A and or NI at or below 0.25ppm during the cycle. Or, mini cycle, or whatever that tank is doing.

Make sure the water going back in is as close to same temp as water in tank, make sure to remember to add your dechlor. I put my heaters horizontally under the 50% water line so I don't have to unplug then and plug them back in cause I'd forget to either unplug or plug back in.

Does it have a heater yet?
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Re: Newly Adopted & Ill Eupterus

Post by MatsP »

You must have written a lot of text in that field, as I could fit:
Test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 test567890test567890test567890test567890 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Mats
andywoolloo
Posts: 2751
Joined: 02 Dec 2007, 02:55
I've donated: $100.00!
My cats species list: 12 (i:0, k:0)
My aquaria list: 1 (i:1)
Location 2: Sanger, California

Re: Newly Adopted & Ill Eupterus

Post by andywoolloo »

Mats, you're cracking me up! :)) =))
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MatsP
Posts: 21038
Joined: 06 Oct 2004, 13:58
My articles: 4
My images: 28
My cats species list: 117 (i:33, k:0)
My aquaria list: 10 (i:8)
My BLogs: 4 (i:0, p:97)
Spotted: 187
Location 1: North of Cambridge
Location 2: England.

Re: Newly Adopted & Ill Eupterus

Post by MatsP »

Sorry, but that's approximately 60KB of text. It wasn't meant to be a joke, just testing how much text you can enter.

So I'm not sure what the problem is, but unless we're having more than 900 lines of 80-character text, I don't see how it can be too long... And I apologize to anyone who's currently looking at .

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Mats
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