Coldwater 150G

kizno1 · Post by **kizno1** » 12 Dec 2010, 16:47

Well i was planning on setting my 150G up as tropical but the only place we have room for it is in the garage and even with 800w of heater and 2 1/2 thick Styrofoam on the back an sides i cant get the temp above 22c it would be fine in the summer but way to cold in the winter. I could add more heaters but i think its just going to cost a fortune. So until i have enough room to move the tank inside im going to set it up as coldwater. Any ideas that could work? Im happy to leave 1 or 2 300W heaters in the tank through winter to keep the tank at say 15c and in the summer the tank should be fine without them. I had though about doing a river tank with roach, rudd, tench ect but i think eventually all will get to big or to active. Any ideas on catfish that could work?

Cheers.

Post by **Birger** » 12 Dec 2010, 17:05

Have you considered some of the species from more south in South America...such as from Uruguay, they should have a cool down period. A member here Bas Pels is one that has experience with these.

Birger

kizno1 · Post by **kizno1** » 12 Dec 2010, 17:13

Any ideas of fish that would work?
I just had another thought maybe a pair or group of snakeheads because they need cool periods aswell.

Post by **Birger** » 12 Dec 2010, 17:21

Another thought is many of the asian catfish species do not need tropical temperatures...now that I am thinking of it there should be many choices.

Have you tried an advanced Cat-eLog search based on temperature?

Birger

I have the opposite problem right now...I can not cool down my madtoms enough.

kizno1 · Post by **kizno1** » 12 Dec 2010, 17:26

Birger wrote:Another thought is many of the asian catfish species do not need tropical temperatures...now that I am thinking of it there should be many choices.

Have you tried an advanced Cat-eLog search based on temperature?

Birger

I have the opposite problem right now...I can not cool down my madtoms enough.

Ill have a look and see what i can find then. I want a few big fish rather than loads of small ones. Im thinking 1-a small group of decent sized catfish and then something like a pair of snakeheads or along them lines.

Really, Here its been below 0c at night so most tropical fish would have no chance evn with 800w of heaters.

kizno1 · Post by **kizno1** » 12 Dec 2010, 17:33

Do you think Clarias batrachus could work. I know it says there min temp is 20C but do you think they could handle a little less just for a short period through winter. Maybe 1 of them and a group of snakeheads.

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 12 Dec 2010, 22:03

It's hard to make recommendations without knowing exactly how cold the tank will get in the garage over winter.

Even many of the subtropical snakeheads and catfish with not tolerate conditions as cold as is likely in the garage without heating.

Native fishes would work well, but instead of roach, rudd, tench, why not think ruffe, gudgeon, stone loach, minnows etc. These won't outgrow the tank.

kizno1 · Post by **kizno1** » 12 Dec 2010, 22:06

racoll wrote:It's hard to make recommendations without knowing exactly how cold the tank will get in the garage over winter.

Even many of the subtropical snakeheads and catfish with not tolerate conditions as cold as is likely in the garage without heating.

Native fishes would work well, but instead of roach, rudd, tench, why not think ruffe, gudgeon, stone loach, minnows etc. These won't outgrow the tank.

Well with 600w the tank stays at 15-16C.

I had thought about them, Ruffe where my first thought but i can find anywhere that sells them.

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 12 Dec 2010, 23:42

I had thought about them, Ruffe where my first thought but i can find anywhere that sells them.

Indeed. You would have to catch the natives yourself.

Well with 600w the tank stays at 15-16C.

A nice group of the subtropical dwarf snakeheads from Myanmar or northern India would work.

As far as catfish goes, something like a group of might be an idea, but these aren't the easiest fishes in the world to keep.

L number Banana · Post by **L number Banana** » 13 Dec 2010, 05:16

Hi,
Don't know anything about your native minnows but the minnows here stay small, are active predators and are perfectly 'happy' in the water under the ice in ponds as long as there's a hole so they do just fine in the same areas with warmer summer temps too.

They're quite interesting to watch. My indoor ones will even eat flake as long as I wiggle my finger like a bug! They prefer redworms or any other live food. The ones here can be quite colourful and are roughly torpedo-shaped for bloodworm attacks from the plants. When it's not feeding time, they cruise around out in the open under the floating plants.

You may be able to find some native coldwater fish at the bait shops. I'll post a picture of my minnow so you can see how awesome he is. Here he is in the roots of the floating plants. He's about 2 inches and will stay that size. The ones in the outdoor ponds are the same length but fatter.

naturalart · Post by **naturalart** » 13 Dec 2010, 06:36

Hello kizno, if you dont end up going native, we have a pretty nice cat here in the states called the bullhead cat. Ictaluridae, Ameiurus sp. There are a number of speceis.

kizno1 · Post by **kizno1** » 13 Dec 2010, 11:30

L number Banana wrote:Hi,
Don't know anything about your native minnows but the minnows here stay small, are active predators and are perfectly 'happy' in the water under the ice in ponds as long as there's a hole so they do just fine in the same areas with warmer summer temps too.

They're quite interesting to watch. My indoor ones will even eat flake as long as I wiggle my finger like a bug! They prefer redworms or any other live food. The ones here can be quite colourful and are roughly torpedo-shaped for bloodworm attacks from the plants. When it's not feeding time, they cruise around out in the open under the floating plants.

You may be able to find some native coldwater fish at the bait shops. I'll post a picture of my minnow so you can see how awesome he is. Here he is in the roots of the floating plants. He's about 2 inches and will stay that size. The ones in the outdoor ponds are the same length but fatter.
mudminnow.jpg

Hi
Hes stunning but the minnows here are no where near as colourful
All the ones ive seen when fishing are these
http://media.photobucket.com/image/brit ... innows.jpg

And if im honest i would prefer some slightly bigger fish but thanks anyway.

kizno1 · Post by **kizno1** » 13 Dec 2010, 11:32

naturalart wrote:Hello kizno, if you dont end up going native, we have a pretty nice cat here in the states called the bullhead cat. Ictaluridae, Ameiurus sp. There are a number of speceis.

HI
I had thought about bullheads but the problem is ive never seen an around here and dont reallyknow where i would be able to find some.

kizno1 · Post by **kizno1** » 13 Dec 2010, 12:39

Does anyone know if its legal to take fish from rivers in England?
If it is then i might give the native tank a go. And does anyone know anywhere that sells Ruffe?
Could this work?
A few Ruffe
A group of Bleak
And a large group of minnows or gudgeon

RickE · Post by **RickE** » 13 Dec 2010, 13:33

Something you might need to bear in mind is keeping the tank cool enough should we be lucky enough to get a decent summer.

How about some bitterling (Rhodeus spp.)? Really pretty little fish, interesting spawning behaviour too.

kizno1 · Post by **kizno1** » 13 Dec 2010, 13:56

RickE wrote:Something you might need to bear in mind is keeping the tank cool enough should we be lucky enough to get a decent summer.

How about some bitterling (Rhodeus spp.)? Really pretty little fish, interesting spawning behaviour too.

Good point I hadnt really thought about that. In the summer i will take all the insulation of the tank and if it comes down to it ill run a fan pointing at the tank.

naturalart · Post by **naturalart** » 13 Dec 2010, 16:31

Bullhead's are raised by the hundreds of thousands here in the states. We love to eat them. I don't know where you could purchase them but I bet if you goggled the genus species, you wouldn't have to look too deep to find a merchant.

Good luck

kizno1 · Post by **kizno1** » 13 Dec 2010, 17:23

naturalart wrote:Bullhead's are raised by the hundreds of thousands here in the states. We love to eat them. I don't know where you could purchase them but I bet if you goggled the genus species, you wouldn't have to look too deep to find a merchant.

Good luck

Cheers, ill have a look into it but ATM its looking like its between native fish or Snakeheads.

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 13 Dec 2010, 21:05

I had thought about bullheads but the problem is ive never seen an around here and dont reallyknow where i would be able to find some.

All ictalurids are basically illegal in the UK. Some shops are allowed to import , but most can't be bothered with the hassle of applying for licences etc. Besides, these will grow too big for your tank.

Does anyone know if its legal to take fish from rivers in England?

As long as it's not private land, you should be okay. Perhaps technically though, it might be illegal to move native fishes between water bodies without consent from the EA. If you are low key about it though, and avoid doing it in front of anglers, you should be fine.

Remember that once a fish is taken from the wild and put in captivity, it should under no circumstances ever be released again. For this reason, make sure you don't take fishes that could ever outgrow your tank.

If it is then i might give the native tank a go. And does anyone know anywhere that sells Ruffe?

Nowhere will sell ruffe. They are not considered an ornamental species and are not wild caught or tank bred in the trade. You will need to find your own.

Could this work? A few Ruffe, A group of Bleak And a large group of minnows or gudgeon

The bleak I suspect will be very tricky. They are just so delicate and skittish. Just touch them, and their scales flake off. I expect them them to be super-sensitive in an aquarium, so best avoid them just in case.

Minnows and gudgeon will be fine. Stone or spined loach will be good too.

kizno1 · Post by **kizno1** » 13 Dec 2010, 21:16

Cheers. I do quite alot of fishing and have never heard of anyone catching ruffe around here so dont think i will be able to get hold of any. Im thinking of maybe going for perch i know they will eventually get to big but there fairly slow growing and ive been speaking to someone who said they are fairly easy to rehome even when big. Maybe 5 Perch, and a big group of Minnows and Gudgeon

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 13 Dec 2010, 21:30

Im thinking of maybe going for perch i know they will eventually get to big but there fairly slow growing and ive been speaking to someone who said they are fairly easy to rehome even when big.

Rehome where?

Maybe 5 Perch, and a big group of Minnows and Gudgeon

Remember perch are natural predators of minnows and gudgeon, so the latter may not show confident behaviour in their presence.

kizno1 · Post by **kizno1** » 13 Dec 2010, 21:41

racoll wrote:
Im thinking of maybe going for perch i know they will eventually get to big but there fairly slow growing and ive been speaking to someone who said they are fairly easy to rehome even when big.
Rehome where?

Maybe 5 Perch, and a big group of Minnows and Gudgeon
Remember perch are natural predators of minnows and gudgeon, so the latter may not show confident behaviour in their presence.

To people with large tanks and ponds.

I was a bit worried about that but i can get the perch at 2-3" which is about the same size as the minnows and gudgeon will be i know they will eventually eat them but i suppose it will be more natural than pellets.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 13 Dec 2010, 22:38

Me and a friend tried keeping various native fish in Sweden. Ok, so we may have made many mistakes, and not known what I know now, but perch never did well in captivity. They are hard to get to feed.

I had good luck with Rudd, Scardinius erythrophthalmus. They do grow too big for a 150g tank, but are active and nice looking fish, and they feed from the surface, so they are OK with aquarium food in general.

--
Mats

kizno1 · Post by **kizno1** » 13 Dec 2010, 22:47

MatsP wrote:Me and a friend tried keeping various native fish in Sweden. Ok, so we may have made many mistakes, and not known what I know now, but perch never did well in captivity. They are hard to get to feed.

I had good luck with Rudd, Scardinius erythrophthalmus. They do grow too big for a 150g tank, but are active and nice looking fish, and they feed from the surface, so they are OK with aquarium food in general.

--
Mats

Fair enough, I was told on another forum that Perch where quite easy to feed and are easily weaned onto dry food but ill maybe forget about the native tank then because it doesnt seem like theres anything that will be perfect for the tank. I think the Snakeheads will be better suited by the sounds of it.

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 13 Dec 2010, 22:50

I think the Snakeheads will be better suited by the sounds of it.

Which snakeheads were you thinking of?

kizno1 · Post by **kizno1** » 13 Dec 2010, 22:56

racoll wrote:
I think the Snakeheads will be better suited by the sounds of it.
Which snakeheads were you thinking of?

I was told an another forum that Channa asiatica, stewarti vars and sp fire & ice would work well.

kizno1 · Post by **kizno1** » 19 Dec 2010, 22:33

Got some great news. After fiddling about and making a few changes ive managed to get the temp at 25c which is what the heaters are set at still with 800w of heaters so i can go for tropicals again.

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 19 Dec 2010, 22:40

After fiddling about and making a few changes ive managed to get the temp at 25c which is what the heaters are set at still with 800w of heaters so i can go for tropicals again.

Does whoever pay the bill know about this? The electricity bills could be huge through the winter. It's like leaving 13 lightbulbs on 24/7.

kizno1 · Post by **kizno1** » 19 Dec 2010, 22:50

racoll wrote:
After fiddling about and making a few changes ive managed to get the temp at 25c which is what the heaters are set at still with 800w of heaters so i can go for tropicals again.
Does whoever pay the bill know about this? The electricity bills could be huge through the winter. It's like leaving 13 lightbulbs on 24/7.

Yeah its my mum that pays them. Ive told her i think it will be alot but im not exactly sure how much it will come to.

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 19 Dec 2010, 22:59

Might be fair to her to let her know roughly how much it will cost in advance, otherwise your new fish might be going back to the LFS very quickly indeed!

You should be able to get a rough idea if you take measurements of the average day/night temps in the garage over a few days, and then do a few sums.

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