Which Auchenipterids are being kept by PC members?

[wrasse]

Hi Martin,

I was at Pier on Friday, they appear to me to be Ageniosus sp3.

[Martin S]

Hi
Thanks - the photos I've seen of one fish, as I said, are very fuzzy so hard to determine for sure, but I expected them to be sp.3, yet the chap who had bought one was sure that they didn't look like sp.3 in the Cat-eLog.
Thanks again
Martin

[Marc van Arc]

According to Neil's picture and the fact that I keep sp.3 myself, I believe they are

Ageneiosus cf_atronasus

or something very close.
Have a look at picture 7.

[wrasse]

They're 2 similar looking species. The fish at Pier have been there for several months now and have faint horizontal stripes on the body. I noted that every specimen seemed to be male.
They were very active fish, being well maintained in a tank with strong current and good aeration.

[Junttis]

....And finally the

Trachelyopterichthys taeniatus

.



And one very crappy photo of the

Liosomadoras oncinus

. You can hear them, but you can't see them too often.

[Marc van Arc]

They're 2 similar looking species. The fish at Pier have been there for several months now and have faint horizontal stripes on the body. I noted that every specimen seemed to be male.
They were very active fish, being well maintained in a tank with strong current and good aeration.

It's this species, right?

DSC_0599.JPG (25 KiB) Viewed 4602 times

I would say the head is too round (or high) for sp.3; the latter have incredibly flat heads. But then I haven't seen this species in life.
Alex has and he already told me Neil only had male specimens.

Photo credit Neil Woodward.

[Marc van Arc]

....And finally the

Trachelyopterichthys taeniatus

.
And one very crappy photo of the

Liosomadoras oncinus

. You can hear them, but you can't see them too often.

Very nice taeniatus. Well fed too.
Nevertheless, chubby leopard is the winner in this respect

[nvcichlids]

....And finally the

Trachelyopterichthys taeniatus

.

I am soo jealous of those. i would trade half my colony of jags for 8 just to mix in with the jags.. LOL.. I have YET to see any Trachelyopterichthys taeniatus in the USA.

[Junttis]

I am soo jealous of those. i would trade half my colony of jags for 8 just to mix in with the jags.. LOL.. I have YET to see any Trachelyopterichthys taeniatus in the USA.

I Haven't seen these before in person until i got mine, and i think these might be the onlyones in Finland.
Keep looking, i hope you find your's someday.

[Marc van Arc]

I'm very unhappy to announce that the Ich has finally made it into my large tank, despite all precautions taken. Several species are already infected, of which Ageneiosus sp. 3 look the worst. I have no idea about the less visible species. I've added medication. Hopeful thing is that I think I discovered it in time as all swimmers are still swimming and eating and all "invisible" fishes are still invisible.
It goes without saying that this is not my best year wrt fish keeping....

[MatsP]

Oh, Marc, I hold my fingers crossed in the hope that you really have caught it in time.

--
Mats

[Martin S]

Really hope you manage to catch it in time, fingers and toes crossed that you don't lose any more fish.
Martin

[sidguppy]

Marc did you use Protazol this time and not the old stuff?

[Marc van Arc]

Thanks all.
Yes, I used it, added a new heater to increase the temperature, cleaned the filters and changed the water. Atm I'm doing the things I should have done, so it's a rather busy weekend (again...).
Because of this, I have been thinking. Despite the fact that it is of course not the fault of the fishes, I will not replace any of the fishes that have died during previous events this year (except for Tetranematichthys) or the ones that may die now. I'm also thinking about gradually ending my second Auchenipteridae era. I might go for a larger characin tank with additional, more visible catfishes. However, I'm certainly not hoping for any victims and I'm not going to sell any fish, so the above ideas may take some time.

[sidguppy]

you might also think about adding salt

temperature can be upped to 27-28'C
add extra diffusor or/and airpump with airstones for extra bubbles/opgygen
calculate the netto (not bruto) amount of water and go slowly (use a day or 2) to 1-2 grams of marine salt per liter tankwater

your fish can handle that amount, but the ich gets into serious trouble

it also helps with making the breathing easier and adding to the mucus layer of your fish.

calling in tonite by pheun if you are home ;)

[Marc van Arc]

you might also think about adding salt
temperature can be upped to 27-28'C
add extra diffusor or/and airpump with airstones for extra bubbles/oxygen

Did all of the above; forgot to mention, but it's all (regretfully) still in my system.
But I must admit that it's becoming rather annoying that this strain keeps popping up despite all the precautions I've taken (among which: no new fishes). Not good for the hobby.

[sidguppy]

yup, I know

this is our future

when the wholesalers seem to think that they can get away with a daily dose (!) of preventive meds and they go for the strongest stuff that can stay in the tank (FMC), this is the result

super resistant strains of germs.

instead of what they used to do (use it when fish are sick), they go for the "industrial agrarian approach" of keeping fish on meds 24/7

they should have learned from our agriculture that that method is a recipe for disaster (all the dead cattle inUK and Europe the last 10 years), and could have gone for the sensible way, but instead they go for the short time maximum profit money grab method


this will result in at least the following:
-as a hobbyist one MUST have a quarantaine tank and even snails, plants and regular food fish have to be quarantained and cured (!)
-lots of fish will become sterile!

that amount of medications will cause sterility in many fish

needless to say they know, or at least a number opf them know, and this plays in their own hand
with unbreedable fish, one needs to buy new ones.

they make sure that we are dependant on them by cutting off the possibility that we breed our own

they also screw up a large part our hobby big time; breeding is one of the highlights of fishkeeping, be it catfishes or other fish.

not a good thing.

[Marc van Arc]

It's a real nasty Ich strain again. On the positive side: the invisibles remain invisible, the characins seem unaffected and the Crossocheilus (flying fox) are improving.
Plain negative is the fact that the Ageneiosus are now getting worse again after a slight, but visible improvement a few days ago.

[Marc van Arc]

After a long talk with Alex yesterday evening the decision was made to stop with medicins and to go for a salt treatment. Being a bit reluctant to dose up to 2 grammes per liter, I'm going for the milder variety: 1 gramme per liter. Dosage will be in three times, so 200 grammes per time. The salt will be dissolved in water before it is added.
Sofar no negative reactions. Today the second dosage. Keep you posted.

[kruseman]

when the wholesalers seem to think that they can get away with a daily dose (!).... instead of what they used to do (use it when fish are sick), they go for the "industrial agrarian approach" of keeping fish on meds 24/7

True; I've witnessed this in Germany last year. The tapwater(!)there contained a nasty Ich-virus the shopowner told me after putting blue stuff in all the tanks. He told me this was a daily practice. Decided right away not to buy any fish there.

[Marc van Arc]

It seems we're getting some results: the spots on the Ageneiosus are definitely vanishing.
The pair is looking much better; one male still has to catch up a little.
Salt completely added just now. I won't say this "war" is over yet, but atm I'm feeling quite relieved!

[sidguppy]

told you so;)
good news

still I would add just a wee bit more and then leave it in for 2 weeks or so.
you really should go to 2 grams a liter

is the temperature still up to 28'C?
because that's the crux; it may NOT be lowered while the salt is in there.

I'll explain:
when the fish has ich and it's visible; the parasite is a white dot on the fish.
this phase is virtually invulnerable because it has protection by the fish' mucus layer!

the trick is to getit off the fish and make it vulnerable to anti-ich treatment

however, the next phase; the vulnerable one, is also the contagious one......
it changes from a white dot on a fish into a multitude (up to 1000 from a single white dot!) of freeswimming germs.
THESE are fragile. they can be killed by medications they're not immune to, or by osmosis (dehydrated by salinity!).

to speed up the process of turning the white dots into the freeswimming mini germs, one can up the temperature.....

at high temperatures (usually above 27'C) the parassite is forced to go from the white spot skin phase into the freeswimming contagious swarmphase within 24 hours.

so this is what you are seeing right now!
the white spots are turning into and multiplying while they doso, the invisible tiny swarming phase which can be killed by salt.

that why I say: add more salt, especially now.

the use of salt is twofold:
salt will cause the fish to make extra mucus.
a thick mucuslayer has much more protection against the penetration of a million little swarming germs than a thin or damaged one.

second: the higher salinity will harm and eventually kill that freeswimming swarm.

so if you stop adding salt now, you do that at the most tricky and dangerous moment of the disease.

compare itto football ;)
a typical Dutch (and PSV) habit is that as soon as a goal is scored, the whole bunch immediately goes into lay back in the big fat chair mode. like "hey we're there, it's done".
next thing what happens is that an adversary turns a 0-2 into a 3-2 and wins the match.
typical Dutch football failure behaviour.

don't fall for it with the ich; keep on the ball and in thiscase; keep adding salt intil you hit that 2 grams a liter.

the next 48 hours are THE mostcritical ones; the disappeared dots have turned into a couple of million highly dangerous litle pests.

now is the time to hit them, and hit them hard!

[Marc van Arc]

I added an extra 200+ grammes, but noticed fishes started to behave differently. So I will stop adding salt at this point. Good thing is that the visible Ich-spots have completely disappeared. But, as you suggested, I'll keep my eyes wide open for the next few days.
Thanks for your help! I'm sure I wouldn't have thought of adding such an amount of salt myself.

[sidguppy]

I just wish I would have been there earlier with the other tank; we could have salted that one and probably save a number of fish.

however I didn't think of using massive doses of salt then either.

I just did a large maintenance myself and some of the fish were offcolor before; I dosed salt (a normal dose, not 1 kilo) and that together with a 7/8 (!) refreshing of the tankwater made the fish quite happy.

tomorrow the 4 Arius will arrive!

[kruseman]

Fingers crossed, Marc!

As for me:
Sinterklaas ( aka Saint Nicholas) paid us a visit today and brought something with him from Spain:

1)A new 125 litretank! It is already up and running containing Hyphessobrycon heliacus, Paracheirodon simulans, Corydoras axelrodi and: Centromouchlus perugiae and C. concolor. The last-mentioned species has been in quarantine from october the 15th and have been alive and kicking all the time.




2)A shrimpflat ! I hope my Auhenipterids will like it since there a no shrimps in the new tank...The artificial look kind of puts me off, so I will try to hide it between the plants once they start growing.


The maintank in the livingroom has moved and has been decorated with some new rocks and bogwood. The fish: Guianacara owroewefi "Grand Laussat", Panaque maccus and Brachyrhamdia marthae. In the future is may contain some larger Auchenipterids and a nice school of a larger characin.

[bigward]

Love the look of your main tank and Guianacara owroewefi have been my favourite fish for a long time now - I have 1 pair of them and are constrantly looking for more.

The shrimpflat looks like a good idea as well - could you cover it in moss ?

[kruseman]

Yeah they are nice. Here (offtopic, sorry) a video of my fish


I will try to cover the flat with moss. Good idea. This morning on C.perugiae was resting in it.

[Mod edit: fixed youtube tag --Mats]

[bigward]

Truly stunning - a lot more orange than mine. They are like hens teeth to get hold of in the UK unfortunately. If anyone knows of any for sale please contact me.

Sorry for being slightly off topic

[kruseman]

The flat has some residents

[Marc van Arc]

Auchenipterids are known for their fear of heights, as can clearly be seen in your picture

Over here everything has calmed down again; luckily without any losses this time. Next weekend I'll start changing the water, thus getting rid of the salt.