motorbike opinions?

[MatsP]

I wasn't trying to say that chain is better [depends on how you define better], but rather that the CHOICE is about what model bike you choose - as far as I know, there isn't a single bike that comes with a choice of "chain or shaft". There may be some competing models that are similar from different manufacturers, where one have a chain and the other has a shaft. But most competing models in a category will have the same chain/shaft/belt drive.

--
Mats

[L number Banana]

MatsP wrote:

Aprilia is another Italian company - it is not a Japanese company!

I kind of gathered that. I said I was blonde but so are you from what I remember of convention posts! I wasn't sure if the somewhat shifty Italian bikes are risky across the board for a beginner but your answer speaks volumes. Stick with the tried and true. The RSV4 1000 was the one I originally looked at but you're right about the availability, there's not one available anywhere that I can see. They're really low as far as seat height - 25.9 inches!

worton[pl] wrote:
It is even more important to look at capacity than at transission (however I would say it needs a little bit different riding style and really it is good to check before buying a bike). However if you are a compact blondie it will be fine on any kind of bike. Unless you are going to take your boyfriend on longer holidays - and then problems usually begins.

That's a nice way to put it! I may have to steal that phrase - compact, like it. I'm solid like a brick because of my job so it's nicer than just 'short'.
Boyfriend is just under 300 lbs so if he sat on my bike, I would do a wheelie without meaning to. He can get his own. And he would be looking for touring style - I'm the nutty one, he's the sedate one. When I brought him the video of ice racing he asked if I had a will made up. My plans are to work and back and frequent long distance catfishing trips that are about 300km away on two big straight highways and one happy curvy smaller highway (90kms). Gas stations are not a problem as there is little towns all along the way.

By capacity vs transmission, do you mean capacity like 600 vs 750 or fuel capacity? I have to get the dumb questions out of the way.

Question for everyone I suppose: The Yamaha FZ6 and the Suzuki FV650 are 'long' bikes. How has the length of your bikes affected things?

[MatsP]

Let's start from the back: Long vs. short bikes. I don't think the SV650 or FZ6 are particularly long. The overall length of the bike isn't overly critical. The wheelbase would matter a little bit, as short wheelbase makes the bike turn quicker, and longer wheelbase makes it turn "slower". This works both ways: If the bike turns very quickly, it becomes "nervous", and a long wheelbase is "stable". Short wheelbase also whelies easier, a long wheelbase is harder to wheelie. (Stoppies are the same thing). There are other factors that matter too, such as the rake and trail affect the steering stability too (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_an ... e_geometry). Again, it's a bit like chain vs. shaft drive - most bikes in the same category have pretty close geometry. For example:

Triump Daytona 675:
Wheelbase: 1395mm
Rake/Trail: 23.9'/89mm

Honda CBR600RR:
Wheelbase: 1370mm
Rake/Trail: 23.5/97mm

Honda CBR1000RR:
Wheelbase: 1407mm
Rake/Trail: 23.3/96mm

Kawasaki ZX10R:
Wheelbase: 1410mm
Rake/Trail: 25.5/110mm

Kawasaki ZX6R:
Wheelbase: 1400mm
Rake/Trail: 24/103mm

If we now pick a more cruising oriented bike, we'd expect to see a longer wheelbase, and bigger rake and trail to make it more stable:
Kawasaki VN900 Light Tour Edition (a Harley look-alike):
Wheelbase 1650mm
Rake/Trail: 32/160mm

Harley Davidson Street Glide:
Wheelbase: 1625mm
Rake/Trail: 26/170mm

As you can see, the measurements are quite similar within each group for the two types of bikes.

I'm pretty sure Worton meant engine capacity. I still think a 600 four cylinder or 650 twin cylinder bike would be a good starting point for a newbie. Smaller capacity bikes tend to be harder work - although I quite enjoyed the CB500 that I borrowed from the shop when mine was on service, because you can keep the throttle pinned in several gears, where the bigger, more powerful bikes quickly runs out of either road or "possibility to explain yourself to the nice officer of the law" depending on the type of road if you are "on it" (or "ONIT" as the young racers say!).

I think for average riding, the RSV4 isn't ideal anyways - it's quite a race-bike for the road. It started out life as the RS Cube that Colin Edwards used in MotoGP in the earlier part of the decade, it was then mdoified to make it a World Superbike race-bike, and to make it "legal" in this class, it has to be sold for customers in the public. But it's really a race-bike, made into a road-bike. And it's probably a bit powerful for a beginner.

One thing I've been thinking several times that I should add: Maybe you should take your motorcycle license before you discuss too much about what type of bike you want to get. This is akin to "get the tank first, then the fish" principle. It also means you'll have more understanding of what a bike feels like.

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Mats

[2wheelsx2]

I'm not sure about bmw lubrication since I've never owned a bmw but cannot imagine it is much more expensive than a lubricant. If lubricant is really so expensive it should runs forever imho .
Or I haven't understood properly what is spline lube . However you have to lubricate chain that for sure, you have to check tightening also and correct it if needed. In shaft you just change lubricant usually something about 30000km-60000km.

In an ideal world yes. On an older BMW, you have to pull the entire drive shaft and clean off the drive splines and lube in every 50 000 or so. Not a big deal on most bikes but this is a touring bike. I know guys who have done 55000 km years, so that's once a year. Lubing a chain is 5 minutes for me. Adjusting a chain is about 20 minutes. I don't change my own chains or lube my splines, but changing a chain at a shop here is $100 maybe. Lubing the spline, the last time I owned a BMW, was about $600 and 4 hours book time for a certified BMW mechanic. For a backyard mechanic like me, it'd likely be an all day affair. And you would still have to change the transmission lube every 12000 km (not every 3000, that would be like every other week for some riders I know, and every month for me when I was in my prime riding age).

[MatsP]

Also, adjusting the chain is something you do maybe once or twice a year with reasonable riding amount (or when you change the rear tyre, whichever comes first).

--
Mats

[L number Banana]

Things are sputtering along slowly on my quest but while I've had to scale back my shopping time due to family stuff, I've had more time to read magazines and do research.

Saw a race the other day which made me look up Derbi and Lambretta bikes.
I was under the impression that smaller bikes - 125cc wouldn't be able to go as fast as I would need but these guys were going rather quickly around the track and it looks like the one fellow was using 125cc Derbi. Am I missing something here? Are the bikes in the race so modified that they preform like a larger cc bike?
http://www.derbi.com/int/index.php?opti ... &Itemid=84

Sorry for another silly question but I need to learn these things somehow

PS, I have absolutely no worries anymore about being able to work on my bike myself. The mechanics are pretty straight forward according to the manuals and it's more about the right parts and the right tools as opposed to needing to be a brainiac. Just saw a stripped down Honda Valkrie and my, oh, my what an amazing looking beast without all the fairings! A bit too big for me but it certainly showed me that I can modify anything to suit!

[MatsP]

A racing 125 has approximately 50-60 bhp, and will do nearly 140 mph. However, for "ease of use", they are not very good - they need lots of revs (the complete opposite of a Valkyrie or Harley type bike), and to go well, they need to be in the right rev-range, or it will not "pull" at all. If you drive a manual car [with a small engine] and try to pull away in second gear, you know what I mean.

Of course, the road-going version of these, Aprilia RS125, are sold in this country at 12 bhp restriction for learners, in other european countries, it comes with a 15 bhp engine variant. This is quite far from the 55 that Bradley Smith gets on his bike (next year he'll have 120 bhp on the Moto2, and in 2012, the 125 two-stroke class will be replaced by a 400cc four-stroke class).

--
Mats

[sidguppy]

Just saw a stripped down Honda Valkrie and my, oh, my what an amazing looking beast without all the fairings!

you'll get there!
naked bikes are the way to go

once you'll get down to the philosophy that anything but the tank and fenders can be chrome and you're homefree



btw a Honda VALKIRIE caught your eye and you're into small bikes?
wow
the only thing bigger than a Valkirie that can be driven outside of the racing track is a Boss Hoss!
;)

[L number Banana]

btw a Honda VALKIRIE caught your eye and you're into small bikes?

The front runner is still the Yamaha FZ6 and the Suzuki gs650 so I guess it would be medium sized bikes?

The Valkyrie is way too big for me but I liked what it looked like after all the goodies were stripped away.
Here's the article to see what it looks like. Funny that it does have a lot of chrome and I didn't think I was a chrome sort of person - I usually like the all-black and no shine type of thing!
http://www.motorcyclemojo.com/2010/09/t ... f-silence/

I like this one too but it's too new (not available here yet) and would be beyond my budget.
http://www.motorcyclemojo.com/2010/09/2 ... sprint-gt/

[L number Banana]

A racing 125 has approximately 50-60 bhp, and will do nearly 140 mph. However, for "ease of use", they are not very good - they need lots of revs (the complete opposite of a Valkyrie or Harley type bike), and to go well, they need to be in the right rev-range, or it will not "pull" at all. If you drive a manual car [with a small engine] and try to pull away in second gear, you know what I mean.

Of course, the road-going version of these, Aprilia RS125, are sold in this country at 12 bhp restriction for learners, in other european countries, it comes with a 15 bhp engine variant. This is quite far from the 55 that Bradley Smith gets on his bike (next year he'll have 120 bhp on the Moto2, and in 2012, the 125 two-stroke class will be replaced by a 400cc four-stroke class).

--
Mats

Hmm, sort of understood that...Is bhp short for *-horse power? Don't drive a manual car and in fact don't drive at all. So it's much more than something like the 125cc is half as powerful as a 250cc. I think I need to learn more about how the engine operates before I can understand.
By "pull" do you mean like torque, like in how a drill has more oomph when you set the torque lower?
I wonder if there's a motorcycles for dunmmies book yet?
Perhaps I just have to feel it to know what you mean.

My first "shopping" trip is next week. Not buying yet but sitting on several new and used models to see what they feel like and learning. I'm taking notes like a nerd.

[sidguppy]

I wonder if there's a motorcycles for dunmmies book yet?

well, there is THIS
;)

[MatsP]

I started explaining the difference between two-stroke and four-stroke engines, but I think these pages:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-stroke_engine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-stroke_engine
make a much better explanation of how it works than I could ever make. Particularly the animated graphics!

Two-stroke engines are generally, especially if they are highly tuned, will deliver good power at a narrow band of rpm (speed of the engine), where four-stroke engines are generally more flexible - not quite so important to be in the right gear.

Size of engine will affect the torque/power (bhp = Brake Horse Power, one of several different ways to measure engine power), but the tuning of the engine will also affect things - as shown with the 125cc bike that delivers about 50 bhp on a race-track, and it's essentially the same engine that is used in the road-going 15 bhp engine. The race bike will have more torque which leads to more power.

Torque vs. power is an interesting thing. Essentially, torque is the "amount of acceleration", where power dictates your top speed. Torque at the wheel is also different from torque at the engine. You can change the torque at the wheel with the gearing - more torque gives you more acceleration - if you have ever used a mountain bike, you'll know that it has low gears to take you up steep hills - and on flat ground you can get going with very little pressure on the pedals, but you can't go fast, because your legs can't keep up. To get going equally quick in a higher gear will take more pedal pressure - in the higher gears it's probably nearly impossible to get started. So torque is "how hard you push the pedals" on a bicycle, or how hard the piston pushes down in the engine. Power is the combination of how hard you pedal and how many pedal strokes you make in a given amount of time. You need the SAME amount of power to go a given speed in any gear - you need more power to go faster, less power going slower. So on the bicycle, on a low gear, you need to pedal like crazy to go 20 km/h (12 mph), but in a high gear, the pedals turn quite slowly at that speed. To go faster in a low gear, you don't need much more torque, but you need to pedal faster. To go faster in a higher gear needs more torque (pedal pressure).

When designing an engine (or "redesigning" aka "tuning"), the engineer/tuner can adjust the power curve (where the biggest amount of torque is delivered). It is often a compromise between low-end torque, which makes it "easy" to ride and top-end power, which gives more power, but it's harder to use, because the torque at low revs ("slow pedaling") isn't as good. The way that the four-stroke engines valves open (bigger opening, earlier/later in relation to the different phases) or the size/shape of the different "holes" as well as the exhaust shape [expansion chamber] of the two-stroke engine determines how the engine behaves in this respect.

If we look at, say, a GS500 engine (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_GS500), it produces 47 bhp, which is less than the 55 or so that a 125cc race bike produces. There are two reasons for this:
1. It's a four-stroke engine. It is less efficient per cc, because every other stroke is "wasted" by just doing one thing each stroke, vs. the two-stroke that is "multitasking".
2. The engine is far less tuned.

Now, we look at a CBR600RR engine: It is only about 20% larger than the GS500 engine.. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_GSX-R600)
It's engine produces about 125 bhp.
How come? Well, it has a higher level of tune. This is a more refined engine...

So it's more complicated than "bigger engine -> more power".

Sorry if that's not helping...

--
Mats

[RickE]

Nice detailed reply Mats, but I think from LNB's point of view it's safe to generalise bigger engine = more power and more torque as long as you are comparing similar types of bikes. I.e. it's no good comparing a cruiser with a sports bike, a twin with a four or a two-stroke with a four-stroke, but pretty much always if you look at, for example, 600cc / 750cc / 1000cc four-stroke four cylinder sports bikes, the power and torque will increase as the engine gets bigger.

An important point which you mention but I think doesn't quite come across clearly enough is that a nice, smooth power delivery and a good spread of torque = rideability. It's important for a learner not to have something that delivers all its power in a lump high up the rev range and has no torque low down.

[MatsP]

Thanks for the clarification, Rick!

I agree, for the same category of bike, "bigger -> more power".

--
Mats

[L number Banana]

Brilliant explanation MatsP! Thank you. It will come in handy when I'm looking at the spec sheets, now those numbers mean something.

Sidguppy, I last read that when I was less than coherent in college - good time to pick it up again! Library has it, will get a nice bottle and tuck into it again tonight

[MatsP]

You may want to look at the "dyno graphs" for the bike...

Here's one example:
http://www.sportrider.com/news/146_1006 ... to_02.html

Compare with this:
http://www.sportrider.com/dyno/146_spor ... to_01.html

Notice how the second bike has a much higher torque rating for the entire range shown - even at 2500 rpm it is higher than the peak of the R6 in the first picture, and it's nearly double the amount of torque. But the amount of horsepower is within 10%. So, the Aprilia engine is quite a bit bigger capacity - 40% more, but it delivers a lot more torque, not more horsepower. And the max torque of the R6 is at 10000 rpm, and max power at 14000 rpm. The Aprilia gives most torque at 7000, and max power at 9500.

There are two reasons for this:
1. The smaller engine is tuned to run at higher revs, and gives it's power by making slightly less torque at higher revs - like cycling, you have to pedal faster, but in a lower gear to keep up the speed if you haven't got strong legs.

2. The bigger bike has only two cylinders, so it gets more "push" per combustion cycle. But there is a limit to how fast we can make this engine spin, because it has bigger pistons, so there is more weight to carry push/pull around.

Imagine you have a bicycle with two small people on it, and another bicycle with one person on it. If the smaller people can pedal faster (perhaps we can fit the pedals on shorter cranks, so they are easier to push), and the one big person with two legs - the bigger legs have better strength, but pedal slower because of the bigger movement.

--
Mats

[grokefish]

Hold the bus!!!!

L number has said she has never ridden a bike before, many of the suggestions above are not bikes for the beginner, either due to power or the expense of repair after chucking it down the road, which is bound to happen.

I am a short ass as well and to be honest I would have said the best learner bike for shortass's is the Hoda VF bikes, preferably an VFR 400 NC30.

It is an excellent learner bike as the bike itself will well outhandle the engine, so no surprises, mid corner.
It is a fairly lightweight bike also so good for girls (no offense meant) and when I had one i did some serious distance on it without massive discomfort, except for when I got frostbite in my finger...........

And seeing as I am a sports bike person I cant believe I am saying this, a very underrated beginners bike is the virago 250, enough of go so u dont end up in trouble at roundabouts and junctions, chasis that again outhandles the engine, light weight, low standover height, reliable probably pick one up for peanuts.....

You guys know the score, you don't get many chances to learn from mistakes when riding a motorbike better to do them slowly.

[MatsP]

You are right of course. I was using the R6 and Aprilia Tuono as examples, not as suggestions.

--
Mats

[crkinney]

Motorbike opinions I got one DEAD hurt for a long time!
Stay in a big heavy car or truck and love life.

[L number Banana]

Grokefish:

Hold the bus!!!!
etc etc

You're wonderful to worry but I will not be hopping on a monster bike anytime soon but MatsP was helping me to understand the whole speed vs size thing because I CLEARLY didn't get it! If it wasn't for explanations like this, I might be tempted to hop on a 125 thinking it must be wimpy and slow....
I like the Suzuki GS 650 but have found that there is also a 400.
I like the Yamaha FZ6 and will most likely find a smaller version of something that looks similar to compare it with.
There's also a company called Star that I'll be looking into (smaller bikes) I also like one of the smaller Ducatis.
Baby steps.

crkinney:

Motorbike opinions I got one DEAD hurt for a long time!
Stay in a big heavy car or truck and love life.

Thanks to you too but I hope it will reassure you a bit when I tell you that I will probably drive like a bit of a paranoid person and have no trouble with that. I've been a pedestrian in big cities and small and I don't trust anyone on the road - ever. People in 4-wheeled "living rooms" scare the hoohaas out of me all the time so I intend to give everyone the right of way unless they make serious eye contact. I also intend to be lit up like a Christmas tree and fully expect no one to be able to see me anyway.
If I decide to learn how to go fast, it will be on a track by myself with as much protection on as possible.
I don't know how many times you've been a pedestrian but I run the risk of being hit all the time.
I have to take 3 separate safety courses to get my license and the whole deal takes 22 months to be fully qualified to drive on the larger highways.
But I'll keep your words like a mantra - thanks

[L number Banana]

Grokefish:

It is a fairly lightweight bike also so good for girls (no offense meant)

Ooops forgot about that comment, no offense taken but I do have gold medals in martial arts and powerlifting experience so I'm somewhat coordinated and strong for a little fart. But If I do dump my bike which of course I will...there's at least three different ways to pick it up for the female half of the planet. Now I just have to find the bike and see if what I was taught actually works in practice.

The Virago is quite cute and so is it's little cousin the magna 50. Wonder what they would look like if I customized them down to the bones? Hmmmm. Good suggestions.


The largest North American Motorcycle show is in Toronto in December - what delightful timing!

[L number Banana]

Quick update and any opinions welcome.

Went to my first bike shop today to sit on a few and see what the different heights/weights felt like. Also checking the different riding positions.

Insanely helpful staff member was one of the owners. Went somewhat gaga over this bike - 2009 Suzuki Gladius (SFV 650). Felt just right, could touch on toe and flat footed with one foot if needed. Bike was a dream but somewhat like sitting on a clydesdale as opposed to a skinny little race horse. Wide at the bum-bits.
http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/ ... 88110.html
Excellent price but there is no smaller equivalent. This may be my future bike.

The owner tried to talk me into the Gigantic 'scooter' automatic Suzuki Burgman. Didn't like it at all but he was making the argument that starting with an automatic transmission would give me one less thing to worry about while I learn all the basics of the road. My feelings are that I would rather have the whole bucket thrown at me to really learn how everything operates and works - or doesn't.
What do you guys think of that idea?

Another couple caught my eye and were really easy and felt 'light' but where still in the larger size like 650's. The baby of the bunch that I really adored was a Kawasaki Ninja 250. He said it's his best selling bike and won't do anything unexpected that might freak me out and make me a bit gun shy. It's cheap for a new bike and extremely sexy in blue and black. Comfortable riding position and a softer seat that you can adjust yourself around a bit in just in case one cheek gets a little sore on a longer ride. Also very customizable if that's a word.
Anyone know of any specific issues with this bike?

Another point that was raised was that for a bike like the Kawasaki 250 - the buy-back value is high - checked this out with all the used ones and it's definitely true, some were selling last year's model for the same price as this years sale price! He also mentioned that one of the pitfalls with buying a used bike of this type is the cost of having to fix your slightly banged up used bike or your slightly-banged-up-from-being-a-newbie new bike is that the new parts actually cost the same. So a new bike would still have a warranty.

A small bummer here but some common sense I hadn't thought about - the fellow told me that I would get free winter storage until spring and that kind of made me sad because I intended to buy and learn about all the bits and such over the winter. The problem with that thinking is that the warranty starts running the minute you take it off the lot...

Will be going to the Harley/Honda dealership on Saturday.

Sid Guppy -
Finished the book and am still amazed that I ever read it when I was young - didn't remember a thing but now I don't feel so bad about saving a bottle of Maple syrup in my fridge that has turned to a very beautiful and complete sugar crystal! I have no comment on the real contents of the book but if I know you in 20 years, I'll have reached some decisions
Thanks.

[sidguppy]

The owner tried to talk me into the Gigantic 'scooter' automatic Suzuki Burgman. Didn't like it at all but he was making the argument that starting with an automatic transmission would give me one less thing to worry about while I learn all the basics of the road. My feelings are that I would rather have the whole bucket thrown at me to really learn how everything operates and works - or doesn't.
What do you guys think of that idea?

it's bollocks. and sexist
I'll settle for sexist bollocks then

I'll bet the person who told you that has a car with an automatictransmission, because he probably hasn't got a clue on how to use a decent gearshift even if his life depends on it

all the cool and subzero cars have regular gears, so he's the owner of an uncool car!

shifting gears on a bike is dead easy. much more easy than in a car. less work too.
it's minuscule movements with left hand (clutch) and left foot (gear); you don't have to let go of the steering with 1 hand (as you would in a car) and if even I can learn it at 40 (as a teenager I never drove a moped, unlike many European bikers) with my rotten lack of health and clumsy coordination, then someone who's sporty and martial arty sure can do

don't worry about gears!
and drive a true bike.

scooters.....brrr.
if he likes them so much, he should ride on em; otherwise it's just sexist crap he was spouting at you.

btw I know by now you're into the "newer" kinds of motorbikes (to this old dinosaur anything after 1986 counts as such), but there's 2 bikes in my kind of bike vein that look very bikey, but are recommended for smaller persons, simply because they handle easy and weigh less (!)

the Suzuki savage

the Suzuki savage is incredably lowbuilt! that saddle is kneehigh.....so even with short legs; you can spread em flatfooted.
it's not a 'mini bike' but it is a 'mini chopper' sort of
it does make an amazing wall of sound; drowns out any newer type of HD and it handles like you're Paul Teutul's little sister.


the Yamaha XJ maxim X
I have a 1985 maxim; it even is an American imported one with miles on it.
it is very forgiving when it comes to corners and being in the wrong gear at the wrong speed; this because it's a 4 cylinder bike and very easyto handle
4 cylinders are far less choosey in gear than V twins; when in doubt of said gear; just rev it up!
over 7000 rpm you'll get an enormnous speedboost, like someone kicks your butt with a soft but very large boot.


the one drawback on a very large bike is weight, not lack of coordination or strength.
you can be as strong as a bull with 6th Dan eyeball squeezing skills in your fingers (oh no, not the Wuxi finger hold!);
but if you're a fly-weight; throwing your body "into the bend" to make the bike go where you want doesn't work as well as compared to a 300lb beerbellied biker.

fat bikers arent healthy, but they can turn them big hogs around just by leaning into the corner. their sheer mass will make the bike turn
that's an advantage you haven't when you're small and/or sporty.

but anything else; good health and strength and coordination gets you around a lot better than huge size.

[MatsP]

I think the Gladius is a good beginner bike. It may be a bit on the big side, but it's a fairly docile engine with good low-down torque, and if it's anything like the SV650, it's got enough handling to cope with most stupid things the rider may chuck at it.

I think you should take a motorcycle training course, part of which will be to learn how to control the bike with the clutch. I think the HARD part on a manual gearbox isn't the changing of gears as such - in fact, changing up on a sporty bike is quite easy to do without even using the clutch. The hard part is to manage slow speed "slipping the clutch" in a smooth fashion and starting from a stop - balancing clutch and throttle, avoiding stalling and not "jerking" too much.

--
Mats

[2wheelsx2]

I'm riding an SV650 now after having had several other bikes with more power. On the street, there's plenty of power and probably enough power for a beginner to get into trouble. But the handling is great (I do need new tires), as good or better than some bikes worth twice the $. I don't know much about the Gladius, but if it does 75% of what the SV does, you'll be very happy with it.

[MatsP]

probably enough power for a beginner to get into trouble

This is probably true for almost ALL bikes - and unless the beginner gets a bike that is really low power, which will then be boring after 6-12 months. Even then, it's POSSIBLE to get into trouble - it just takes a bit more trying. In Sweden, mopeds used to be limited to 1 bhp and 30km/h (18mph), and there were still people who killed themselves on them (even after introduction of helmet required by law). Sure, it's probably requires quite a few contributing factors to high-side a 1bhp 50cc moped, and a 130 bhp 1000cc sportbike makes that task relatively "easy".

Of course, to some extent, it all comes down to your own ability to self-restraint and understanding of how two-wheeled vehicles work - it helps to be a cyclist to understand balancing/stopping/steering - even if there's a lot less mass to move about, the principles of a bicycle and a motorbike is similar.

I started on a VTR1000F which put out 103.6bhp at the rear wheel on a Dyno. That's 37 more bhp than the claimed number for the Suzuki.

--
Mats

[2wheelsx2]

For me it's the torque. I find the screamer 600's a bit tamer. Like the R6. Most n00bs don't want to wind it up to the powerband, making the power delivery a bit soft compared to V-twins like the SV. As an advanced rider, I would quickly get bored of the SV, except for the fact that I was essentially commuting with it to go to and from the riding school where I was teaching. But I do agree you can get into trouble with anything. I got into trouble with a GS500, which was my first bike. Fortunately, I managed to save it, unlike my riding buddy on an identical GS500, who binned it at the same speed as me in the same corner.

[L number Banana]

All Good, thanks guys. Will look into those two bikes Sidguppy mentioned. The Maxim looks like the handlebars will be a long way from me so will have to feel that to see if my shoulders will want to pop out of their sockets especially if there's any wind. Will take a look around to see if there's one to sit on, the prices are really good for both and the Savage is pretty sharp looking.

The Gladius has nice reviews by the magazine and compares favorably to the sv's according to the bike magazines. The owner I spoke to drives one himself as his main bike but didn't mention that until after I was done having a look around and finally asked what he rides. Good sign I guess but still may be more like my future bike.


MatsP wrote:

...I think you should take a motorcycle training course, ....

Yup, I have to take three of them to get my license, safety, handling, defensive driving and some maintenance lessons. That's why it takes so long to get a full license here. There's also a speedway not far from here that offers all kinds of skills courses. The last one was sort of like off-road conditions but with regular bikes - gravel, bumpy roads, slick surfaces and water hazards. They also had a section where everyone learned to try to take their bike up a muddy slope and be able to stop and not slide back or fall over. Sounds like almost everyone - experienced and newbie- dropped their bikes on that part. Then they got to learn about new ways of getting it back up and how to turn it around using the pegs etc.
I like those types of courses and will be taking any and all as I can afford them. Some of them are cheaper and some are all-weekend cabin-included mini-courses.
It just makes sense that someone like me should take all the training I can get because if the racers still take courses when they can then nothing should stop me from trying to sponge up every bit of knowledge I can.

Sidguppy wrote:

....but if you're a fly-weight; throwing your body "into the bend" to make the bike go where you want...

THAT makes sense. I realized that after reading some of the larger bike reviews also I've seen some smaller folks almost stand on one side of their bike. Now I know why.

Kawasaki Ninja 250 good and bad from a review:
Pros: Good for beginners since it's almost impossible to do a wheelie by mistake; it's really difficult to get right down in corners where you might catch some bit sticking out like on the older Ninjas (some of the expert riders couldn't get their knee down even after several tries, it wants to stay more upright) and the brakes are friendly enough that you pretty much can't flip it up and over and do a face plant that way.
Cons: All of the above. I guess I would really like something "responsive" that I can play on (not on a main road/highway). First things first, learn to do all the smart things safely. Perhaps I should buy a dirt bike style bicycle as well as a motorbike to get that bit out of my system

Will be back with questions after the Honda dealer and thanks for the clarification re shifting and the forgiveness (or not) of the motor, 4 cyclinder vs 2 vs v-twin. I'm slowly getting it and the lack of comment on the Ninja 250 is somewhat telling in itself.

Just for eye-candy:

[RickE]

If you're talking eye candy:

[grokefish]

Grokefish:

It is a fairly lightweight bike also so good for girls (no offense meant)

Ooops forgot about that comment, no offense taken but I do have gold medals in martial arts and powerlifting experience so I'm somewhat coordinated and strong for a little fart. But If I do dump my bike which of course I will...there's at least three different ways to pick it up for the female half of the planet. Now I just have to find the bike and see if what I was taught actually works in practice.

The Virago is quite cute and so is it's little cousin the magna 50. Wonder what they would look like if I customized them down to the bones? Hmmmm. Good suggestions.


The largest North American Motorcycle show is in Toronto in December - what delightful timing!

Like this........................



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On the girl bit. It was nothing to do with strength but more height, most birds are shorter than men (about my height as it goes) and both the bikes I mentioned are good for short people.

50's and 125's are dangerous, not enough go, if you can get at least a torquey 250, tha'll be able to get you outa any trouble you get in.