The final straw.

[grokefish]

Today I found my

parancistrus aurantiacus

floating dead on the surface.

I have had this fish for many years the only fish I have that is older is a 10yr (appx) old Panaque and it is the final straw for me.

I am absolutely gutted I have done this and have decided enough is enough and I'm not gonna kill any more fishes.

If anyone wants some fish see my for sale topic I shall be putting up soon.

[MatsP]

Sorry to hear. Do you know what you "did wrong"?

--
Mats

[grokefish]

Yes did not pay enough attention to detail.

[LeeRoy]

I am sorry for your lose!!

My outlook on the different fish that I keep is,
if you have the mid-swimmers about 1 1/2 years is a long life span,
if you have bottom swimmers about 2 to 2 1/2 years,
and some of the small algea eatters 3 years,
the larger algea eatters 4+ years.

If your was with in this range, you took very good care of your charges and they had a good life, and live a longer life in your care than they would have had in the wild.

So you can thank them for the time that they let you share their time in your care.

Find another fish, any kind that would enjoy spending their time with you and share.

Just my 2c

LeeRoy

[MatsP]

Leeroy: Most catfish live quite a long life, unless they are incorrectly kept. Corys should reach 7-10 years, most plecos 10-25 years. Little otos should live for at least a couple of years - 5 years is achievable. Synos are also known to live a very long time - 20+ years for many of them. For nearly all catfish species should live for more than 4 years.

Obviously, non-catfish range from months to many years depending on the species.

--
Mats

[Viktor Jarikov]

Hey, Grokefish! Don't know what you need: encouragement or consolation? I'll try the former. You know, it's not unlike wedding vows, where you promise to love and to cherish but we all know for dead sure there'll be bad times too, there'll be hurt, bitterness, fights, tears, etc. - this is merely a reality. This world is imperfect and never will be perfect no matter how much we try, even if all 6 billion of us gave it our best shot all together... Anyway, I've sent a lot of fish to fish heaven but I believe the only people that don't do it are the ones that never try... but even most of them eat seafood... or, well, aquatic food every now and then, so they participate in killing the fish too. So, I'd say show must go on but I am with LeeRoy - this is but my 2 broken cents.

Hope you'll reacquire your inner peace soon!

[Viktor Jarikov]

LeeRoy, if your lifespan guesstimates are for catfish, then Mats, is very right. Not that I experienced it firsthand, but from all that I've read and has been discussed on this site, cats can live for a very long time, 5-50 years, and most would in ideal husbandry conditions. Many bear witness to this - try "search" function...

[sidguppy]

Leeroy: Most catfish live quite a long life, unless they are incorrectly kept. Corys should reach 7-10 years, most plecos 10-25 years. Little otos should live for at least a couple of years - 5 years is achievable. Synos are also known to live a very long time - 20+ years for many of them. For nearly all catfish species should live for more than 4 years.

that's not true in all cases....sometimes despite the best efforts, fish just die.
often mysteriously.

it's the same as saying that humans who have adequate food and housing all grow old to at least 80.
then why do 5 year old kids in western society die of cancer? bad housekeeping? I beg to differ.
it happens. period.
callous as I may sound, and it's a tragedy, it just happens

fact of life: not every organism reaches the old age, not even when you do your utmost best of taking care

not humans, not fish

it's not always the fish keeper that is to blame!

this is not an excuse to practice bad fishkeeping because "life kills"; but it IS a fact and it has the consequence that if you did your best to keep it healthy and it still dies, it might very well not be your fault at all....

so you shouldn't take every fishes' death personally.
sometimes they just die.

[grokefish]

In this case it was bad fish keeping.

For a number of reasons I have had to cut down on the number of tanks I have over the last 6 mnths and it was one tank too far.
I was keeping him in very high turnover, which I had to reduce due to the other inhabitants that were put in with him.

The oxygen levels dropped to below what parancistrus require. I thought this as I was doing it.

I proved to be correct, this is why it is the final straw.

[Viktor Jarikov]

Sure fire, Alex- "should" does not equal "will". I think all Mats and I were trying to say, to use your analogy, that when a human being is born, statistics says it can be expected to live to 60-90 years these days. That is because LeeRoy was also speaking in general.

Sure, Grokefish's fish might have died from any number of things we have no clue about, despite him thinking that he knows. But if anybody knows, Grokefish does the best, of course.

[MatsP]

Alex,

I'm sure you agree that EXPECTING a human (in western countries) to reach more than 60 is a reasonable expectation. That of course doesn't mean that fish and humans don't die for unexpected reasons before the expected lifespan, and accidents happen too (filter or heater failure for example in the fish-world, and traffic accidents in humans).

But if you EXPECT your average bottom-dweller to live for 2-2.5 years, then you're either very pessimistic, or getting something wrong.

Clearly, I'm not saying EVERY DEATH before 10 years on plecos are caused by something the fishkeeper is doing wrong...

--
Mats

[taksan]

I did a very similar thing I had too many tanks and wasn't paying enough attention to detail.
I hadn't killed a fish but I'd slacked off on a few things (not WC's of course).
When I saw this happening I decided to rationalize my tanks down to just 6 big tanks plus the pond. I sold off my many Pseudi's, nuggets, phantoms, Scoby's and many others and basically went to keeping Panaque's ,Brachyplatystoma, Rays, Discus, and a few large fish like the Mega I couldn't bear to part with. I've still got plenty of water (my smallest tank is over 1000L biggest over 16000L) to look after but the time required to do the basics has dropped so I can concentrate on the details like changing UV lamps when they are due, Chemical media changes, cleaning pipe's and hoses out and making sure my pumps impellers are clean. I think I spend about the same total time on the fish but I'm less stressed and am back to really enjoying my maintenance routines.

[L number Banana]

Sorry to hear about your bad experience.
We can't all be perfect so maybe just cutting back a bit to have a beautiful tank you can really give your attention to? If I were a fish, I would rather have a life with someone who has given me attention and care like you rather than being stuck with a couple goldfish in a kiddie tank for a few miserable weeks. (Yes I'm putting human feelings on a fish but I don't care since that's all I can relate to.)
Even some of the more experienced members here have had a fish die by a situation that was less then ideal. We all try to lessen these instances but stuff happens and the forum and hobby are better with you here.
Maybe concentrate on making an absolutely wonderful setup for some of your favourites? Like the panaque?

Losing a fish is really hard at any time but we don't want to lose you too!

[bigbird]

soory for your loss ....cheers jk

[grokefish]

Thanks for your nice replies dudes.

It's more a case of logistics than anything else. I am finding I have less and less time to do things like sort my fish out, or am finding it hard to bother if you get me, because of other commitments.

This recession is really hitting my engineering business bad which ironically is giving me LESS time to concern myself with my fish, weird eh.

At the end of the day I have humans wellbeing to worry more about than fishes so for now I must eliminate all non essentials time consuming activities.

I just don't wanna drop the ball again and find a tank full of dead fishes next time, you see.

[andywoolloo]

I am sorry to hear of all your troubles. it's rough here in California also.

[bronzefry]

Groke,
I have cut down on the number of tanks I have so I can better pay attention. It's what I can now manage. I know you're good with fish, since you've bred Chaetostoma sp. This is no small thing! Keep your chin up, reduce the number of tanks to something managable and regroup. We all go through times like this.
Amanda

[Viktor Jarikov]

Groke, remember, Amanda is not a dude (I think...)

...neither is L # banana (less sure...)



we're all pullin' for yah!

[zenyfish]

Every time I lose a fish, I learn from it, as you seem to have done. Your experience is really what makes you a more trustworthy fish keeper now.

[L number Banana]

Viktor Jarikov wrote:

Groke, remember, Amanda is not a dude (I think...)

...neither is L # banana (less sure...)



we're all pullin' for yah!

Yup, I'm a dudette. But most of us are okay being included in the general "you guys" and "dudes". It'd helpful to clarify sometimes though because our comments can sound a bit odd if it seems like it's coming from a man. You never call tell though...we do have a wonderful diverse group of people here!

[Richard B]

we do have a wonderful diverse group of people here!

Oh yes indeed

[grokefish]

I am aware of the mentioned members genders dude, I call everyone dude, even my mother.

This:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dude

Made me chuckle.

[Viktor Jarikov]

But most of us are okay being included in the general "you guys" and "dudes".

Strangely though, my (perhaps erroneous) impression of a non-native speaker is that people (americans?) would often lump both sexes together in "you guys", as odd as it still sounds to my ear, but almost never or just never in "you dudes". Maybe a US thing too - don't know how it is in UK, Australia, or South Africa, etc.

It'd helpful to clarify sometimes though because our comments can sound a bit odd if it seems like it's coming from a man.

Oh yes! This also brings us closer to having a mock-up face-to-face conversation, like smilies, you know. Not insignificantly, the more proper wording and etiquette would be followed.

Anyway, I just wanted to build on my well-wishing. Groke, I don't know if you know who Red Green is or of his (Canadian) show. I guess subconsciously I was quoting him without even thinking! Red always ends each show with his memorable address: "Keep your stick on the ice! Remember, I'm pullin' for yah! We're all in this together!"

[Viktor Jarikov]

Nice, Groke! Thanx for the ed!

[sidguppy]

there's only one dude, dude

and this is him:

[andywoolloo]

duuuuuuuude!!!

[Viktor Jarikov]

As often, I have no idea what this is about but will dare a guess: is that you, Alex the Sidguppy himself?

If yes, why are you the one and only dude in existence?

PS: We are derailing Groke's thread.

[L number Banana]

Sorry Grokefish, I think that picture of Sir Guppy is the actual Final Straw! Never would have pictured him as a sweater man. Just when you think you 'know' someone, they throw in a sweater and keep you guessing. Geez.

If you leave the Realms of Catfish, you'd miss all that, so you can't go.
Nuf said. Please rebuild your catfish love and show us the plans for your smaller set-up.

I'm trying the drill-Sargent-finger-wagging-technique...

[robb harriston]

hey grokefish, sorry for the loss.i guess i know how you feel literally, i have lost some very special and very rare fish. we all have. as aquarists we have taken responsibility for reproducing a river or lake system in a relatively small glass box. sometimes we are successful, sometimes not.but we all do our best and we learn from our mistakes.maybe it had nothing to do with something you did.that i dont know. but i do know that you appear to be a good responsible aquarist.chin up we all love what we do because we chose to do it. its our own personal special thing. a relaxing, inate, form of recreation. all im saying is would you really be better without something you obviously love so dearly?think about it first, dont make any rash decisions.just my thoughts. wishing you the best whatever you chose to do.RH

[Shovelnose]

As often, I have no idea what this is about but will dare a guess: is that you, Alex the Sidguppy himself?

If yes, why are you the one and only dude in existence?

PS: We are derailing Groke's thread.

That is not Alex but it certainly is the only Dude in existence. Or you can call him El Duderino if you re not into the whole brevity thing.

Good one Alex.