cory panda tank

[christiansen]

hy all,

i have 9 cory pandas juvenile (2,5-3cm), for 2 months . i keep them in a 42 liters tank (was running for 3 months before they arrived ), with small gravel substrate, well planted,with an open central area for playing , well lit , 40 w . for filtration i have an aquaclear20 (HOB) and an internal aquael minifan for a better water circulation .

the water values are ph= 7.2-7.5 ; kh=6 ; dh= 15 ;NO2 =0 ; NO3= 15 . water temperature now in the middle of the summer 26-28 C (the tank is opentop).

the internet is full with information about the water parameters accepted by panda's cory, not all are so acurate. i'm asking the ones of u that have/had pandas and made them spawn . what where u're water parameters ? i wold try to drop a little the ph, not by co2 injection , by using peat granules in the HOB filter !

from what i observed them , the are more happy in the cooler days, or the rainny days when the temperature drops a little . another thing is that they are extremly shy , the moment u get close to the tank they scatter . i have in another tank a small group of 10 paleatus cory (5 albino and 5 regular) that are more sociable ! are they shy because there are now middle or top level fishes in the tank with them?

[MChambers]

My parameters are similar to yours, except that I really think you need lower temperatures, around 24C.

I had four adult pandas last fall, and with breeding now have more than 40. (I used a second small tank with a sponge filter, and would move the eggs into it, and feed them microworms when they hatched.)

Frozen bloodworms seemed to help with spawning, as did water changes, but I can't swear that those really triggered it. This week, I had about 15 eggs on the glass, without any particular triggers. (I've now stopped transferring the eggs, so I'll be curious to see if the population continues to grow, or if the eggs and fry are eaten by the adult pandas or the other inhabitants of the aquarium.)

[christiansen]

I had four adult pandas last fall, and with breeding now have more than 40.

how big is u're tank in witch u keep them? is it an comunitary tank or is dedicated to them?

u're right about the temperature, i have to make something to drop 2-3 C in the water temperature

[MChambers]

55 gallon community tank.

[apistomaster]

When I was breeding some wild Corydoras panda a few years ago I researched their requirements and found that they did best in the mid 70's*F which is about the same as 24*C. I found my hatches were better in softer water and to me, 15dh is on the high side. If you can lower than down to 5 to 7 dh I think you will have better results.
Mine seemed to spawn mainly in a mass of Hair Algae I had allowed to grow into a large clump. Very few eggs were laid on the glass or flat leaved plants that many other Corydoras spp seem to prefer.
I mostly breed dwarf Corydoras in colonies set up for years and I never tried that method with C. panda because I thought the adults were large enough to pose a threat to the newly hatched larvae.

[MChambers]

Interestingly, my pandas seem to lay their eggs exclusively on the glass, usually in an area somewhat covered by floating elodea, and across from the filter output, so there is a good flow at those spots.

I really don't know if the parents are a threat to the eggs or fry, but I'm going to find out, since I no longer move the eggs. I will say that in the last week I've seen about 20 eggs on the glass, and watched them mature. I don't think anything ate them. I have a hard time envisioning pandas eating fry, but I suppose it could happen.

[apistomaster]

My Corydoras panda were wild fish which are seldom available nowadays so their preferred spawning substrate may have been more typical of wild fish but they also preferred the Hair Algae location which was also near the outlet of a power head driven sponge filter. In that respect their behavior was similar. Decades of captive breeding can alter spawning behavior since typically a commercial method uses as sparse an environment as possible.
Mine were in what I consider an enriched environment when they were breeding and I was not trying to raise them commercially or for maximum efficiency since this species simply does not fetch a high enough price for me to raise them. I merely wanted to breed them enough for the accomplishment.

[christiansen]

thanx for the replays. i've read that panda's tend to hide they're eggs , rather then lay them on the glass .

Mine were in what I consider an enriched environment when they were breeding

what do u mean by that?

[MatsP]

If I may be so bold as to try to explain what Larry means:
In a commercial breeding facility, there are few decorations, plants, etc, with the exception of things that are strictly needed for the breeding itself (e.g. breeding mops) [and of course, filtration and such to keep the fish suitably healthy).
In a hobbyist tank, where the fish are kept for the aquarists pleasure, rather than as pure breeding stock, the tank will have plants and other decorations. This, I believe is what Larry refers to an "enriched environment". It will make harvesting of eggs more difficult, for example.

--
Mats

[christiansen]

thanx MatP , i apreciate u're answer !

[apistomaster]

MatsP did a fine job of describing what I meant by an enriched environment as opposed to a spartan breeding style set up.

[jeff@zina.com]

My pandas laid eggs reliably in a breeding mop and it was easy to transfer to a hatching tank. I've had pandas in a wide range of water conditions and they always did fine, but they bred best in mid-70F water with a neutral pH and lower hardness (live black worms and a cool water change always triggered them). Though I had a half dozen in a community tank with angels at 82F and routinely found eggs. Tank raised fish seem to have adapted well to almost any normal tank parameters.

Jeff

[christiansen]

thanx all for the answers ! i've started a new 54 l (60x30x30 cm) tank for them . the tank has been running 5 weeks with some RCS and a filter used in an old tank before i introduce them in they're new home !
- i used aquaristic gravel 1-2mm , i've been using this substrate in another tank for almost an year now and no barbel erosion there ;
- the temperature is 24 C ;
- for filtration i use an external canister of 3 liters , serafil 900 in wich i have 1 liter of siporax as a bilogical filter medium , coarse and fine sponge for mecanical filtration;
- 7 l water changes are made every 4'th day ;
- i have an DYI CO2 sistem , the tank is moderate planted, i've observed that they feel more safe in
a dimm light so i don't use no midd/top level fish in the tank, just tall plants that make a lot of
shadow and a ~30 cm driftwood ;
- as for water parameters : ph 7.5 ; no2-0ppm ; no3 - 5-15ppm ; kh -9 dH ; GH - 15 dH . i'm planning of getting a water filter for my tapwater, to drop a little the kh to 6 dH and GH hopefully bellow 10 dH ;
- as for fish i have a small school of 8 cory panda . my intention is to give them nice conditions , so they can thrive and when they will be mature enough , they will spawn !

if anyone have advices or suggestions are wellcome to post them ! i'm at the beggining with the cory cats so there is still so much more to learn!

[apistomaster]

If you culture Grindal worms, which do well between 20*C and 24*C, your Corydoras will love you for it and they will be much easier to breed when that time comes.
White worms are also good but are larger and do best if kept between 16*C and 20*C.

Softer water is also a good plan, especially when it comes to breeding them.

C. panda are a very shy species and do prefer dim light so what you are providing is good for them.
Live worms are the key to being very successful with breeding Corydoras.
Unlike with C. habrosus and C. hastatus I could never breed and get fry C. panda in a permanent colony set up. They bred easily but they seemed to eat most of their eggs or newly hatched larvae.

[christiansen]

haven't mentioned in the previos post. they're diet is composed from sera tablets (plankton , vipachips , o-nip) ; fronzen food (blood worms and black mosquito larve);
as for live food i have only micro worms that i feed to my fry fish . i will look into grindal worms , there are some people here growing them and will not be so dificult to get a starter culture ! apistomaster do u feed grindal to u're cory as a primary food, or a few time a week?

[apistomaster]

I rely mainly on newly hatched brine shrimp as their primary food as it feeds both the adult breeders, larvae and encourages rapid growth among the juveniles. The adults can eat live black worms which I ship in a couple pounds a week so I do not use Grindal worms. My house gets too worm by August and my cultures crash. I have to start them over in September. I can't count on a continuous supply but I did not think you had easy access to black worm and thought that advising raising Grindal worms would be more suitable for your collection. I use most of my Grindal worms on my Apistogramma breeders and juveniles when I have them.I have some Black Darter Tetras, Poeciliocharax weitzmanni, which only eat live foods well so they also get Grindal worms when I have them and live mosquito larvae and blood worms when I don't which I culture in an out door pool.
I also use some grated frozen blood worms occasionally. Feeding a lot of brine shrimp nauplii makes it easier to feed the fry at the same time. Live worms are the best breeder conditioning food for all Corydoras.
I keep my water at about 60-100 ppm TD which tests out at 4 KH and 4-5 GH. The pH tends to lower with the reduced buffering capacity to about 6.6. But a friend is getting reasonably good production using tap water with a pH of 7.5 and about 15 GH so they are able to adapt to a wide range of conditions. His colony has not been as productive as mine. But at least his colony is growing and that is what matters most.

[calicocat]

Hi,
Panda cories like slightly acidic water and are very sensitive to ammonia and nitrates. I also agree with what others have said about lowering the temperature as a high temperature (over 26 degrees) can actually lower their life span. To get them to breed, we used blackwater extract and made our water condition perfect. We tried using peat moss but it did nothing. You could also try using driftwood to naturally lower the ph. The more planted the tank becomes, the less shy they will become. Ours like sitting in lilaeopsis and under our tiger lotuses.
Calicocat

[christiansen]

thanx all for the detailed answers !

[christiansen]

i manage to finde grindal worms and add them to they're diet along with frozen bloodworms. they love it !

i will upload some pics with my panda's from last night ! i have a friend that has a cory panda bought from another petshop (the ones i got are raised in romania and they're parents came from asia ), and my firend's cory has more intens black on fins and body ! there are a few color variation in the wild or is about the quality of the parents genes?

another quesstion , i saw some food from aquarium munster that chatch my atention in a LFS , wanted to ask if anyone have used it ! i'm talking about " Dr. Bassleer Biofish Food chlorella" (http://www.aquarium-munster.com/index.p ... con_lang=2)




and here is the panda i was talking about, the one my friend have it !

[kim m]

When I see C. panda in shops, the WC fish are generalle more sandy-coloured than the Asian imports wich are more white. If this is because of selective breeding I don't know.

[taheton]

whe i manage to get some eggs of my pandas and survive fry get that orange collor on the head

[christiansen]

my C. Panda have spawn 2 weeks a go for the first time !
- the setup was a 60cm long tank, 54 liters, 0,5 cm of very fine sand , some pices of mangrove's , some anubias nana and java moss , no heater, an HOB AquaClear 50 filter . the tank has 2 WC weekley of 30%

- fishes diet in the last few months was : freezed blood worms , grindal worms , sera discus granules , jbl novotabs and novofect !

- water chemistry : ph 7.5 , kH 9 dG , GH 16 dG , (conductivity ~1000 microsiemens ,from the local water company site) and temperature 24 C .

in the tank i have only a mix of 9 Panda's from diferent sources and the smaller ones have 10 months old while the oldest is 2 years old .
the first spawn i missed, i finde an egg on the glass near the surface of the water. i removed it in a small container with water from the main tank with some antifungus solutinon and an airstone. it hatched in 4 days at a temperature of 22-23 C . they fry accepted food after 2 days , i started with microworms followed by sera micron and artemia nauply .

10 days later , was a rainny day , in the evening i did a 50% water change with aged tap water, temperature was 23 C , the Panda's spawn that night after the lights go out, (there was a dimm night lamp on)
this time i was lucky enough and i could watch them laying eggs. it was only one female that spawn, along with 4 males that keept chaseing her all arrownd , most of the eggs were deposit in some improvised spawing mops made form java moss and suction cups on the sides of the tank, 3-4 cm below water level . i could only find 5 eggs that i separated in a container, after 4 days all the eggs are fertile (dark tan color ), showd hatch in the next day probably

another surprise was to finde in the tank 3 fry , almost the same size as the first one that i hatch 2 weeks a go along with another new fry that still has his yolk sac , probably from the last spawn, and hatch earlyer then the 5 eggs separated . i separated only 3 of them, couldn't catch the forth, maybe in the next few days he will join his brothers .

thanx to all for the replays and the advices

[christiansen]

all the 5 eggs hatch, now i have 10 fry ( in a plastic container. )of diferent sizes , from the two spawns.
the question is do i keep them in the plastic container with an airstone and 2-3 WC daily for anther 2-4 weeks or move them in a 2,5 Galon Tank (that is matured) with fine sand , a small HOB filter with a sponge on the intake and a small anubias petite? the advantage of the plastic container is that i can keep an eye on them to see if they eat and can siphone everything on the bottom easly while the 2,5 Gallon tank has the advantage of more water volume, a mature filter but a stronger water curent and , what i finde in my opinion , dificulty in feeding them do to the bigger size of the tank ?
what's you're method of rearing for C. fry ? after how many weekes do you guys move the fry from the plastic container ? (that is if you chose this method and not hatch the eggs in the tank they where spawned)

[Melander]

Congrats on the spawns!

I keep my C. panda fry in a fry net like the one below with an air stone in it:


The advantage to me is that it's much easier to keep a good water quality compared to a plastic container. I could not say excacty how long I leave the fry there as it's usually a mix of fry from several spawns when they reach roughly 1cm I move them on.

I have never lost any fry doing it this way but I have lost fry when moving them to a separate tank, I'm sure other will have had different experiences but this has worked for me.

Good luck!

Melander

[christiansen]

the fry are in the 2.5 Gallon tank for 2 weeks now and are growing quicly . i should have moved them sooner , there where no problems with them findeing the food and the mentenance is much easyer.
they're age ranges from 6 weeks to 5 weeks and size ~ 1,2-1,5cm TL . i was thinking to introduce them grindal worms , but wanted to ask u're opinion ,cause the size of the grindal worms is not a problem but they're digestiv sistem can handle this food ? they're curent food is compose from microworms, tetramin baby and artemia nauply .

[christiansen]

3 months after the initial spawing, the 12 fry grew well and today have joined they're parents.

[Neo]

I keep 3 in with my Zebs at Temp – 84°F, Ammonia – 0, Nitrite – 0
, Nitrate – 5, PH Digital – 6.9, KH – 3, GH – 4, o2 – 6-8 mg/l

I love Pandy Cory and how they are always so busy and don't care what else is going on around them

christiansen great pics, thanks for sharing and congrats on spawning!

[MatsP]

I have to say that 84'F is a bit on the warm side for panda corys. They prefer tempertures in the low 70'F range.

--
Mats

[Neo]

Could be why they are so busy they seem to be ok, if not or I thought they were suffering I would move them to the spare Lido tank, I saw another guy who kept them with their Zebs and seemed to do ok for him too, do you think I should move them to a cooler tank or leave them as they seem fine?

[MatsP]

I can't really tell you what you should do, but if it was my fish, I'd move them to a cooler tank.

--
Mats