Corys and Shipping...?

[jetajockey]

Hi everyone. I was just hoping someone could fill me in on the best method to ship corys.

I bought a group of adult corydoras schultzei (black) and had them sent express, but still ended up losing 2 in transit. They were packaged well, insulated and in breather bags, the box didn't appear to be damaged whatsoever. The group of 7 were split between two bags, and had one DOA in each bag. The water was tinged with a slight blue, methylene I guess?

Maybe it was an issue using a breather bag instead of one with O2 in it, so they could surface for air? Or maybe they were packed too many per bag?

I've read that they can release toxins in transit and poison themselves, but I don't know if that's true.

I am getting ready to start shipping these things in a few weeks and I want to make sure they have a good survival rate, so any suggestions or opinions are welcome. Thanks!

[PlecoCrazy]

I have no experience with cories but remembered reading this a couple of months back.

[jetajockey]

thanks for the reply. I'll be sending them off as juveniles anyway so I hope that this doesn't become an issue. I'm still up in the air about using standard poly bags with o2 vs breather bags.

[Squidward]

A few years ago, when I was stocking my Malawi/Mbuna setup I got some Mbuna mail order, and also a Synodontis. The Malawis were fine, but the Syno didn't fair too well. Luckily I managed to save him, but not sure I would do it again.

[Birger Amundsen]

Hi everyone. I was just hoping someone could fill me in on the best method to ship corys.

I bought a group of adult corydoras schultzei (black) and had them sent express, but still ended up losing 2 in transit. They were packaged well, insulated and in breather bags, the box didn't appear to be damaged whatsoever. The group of 7 were split between two bags, and had one DOA in each bag. The water was tinged with a slight blue, methylene I guess?

Maybe it was an issue using a breather bag instead of one with O2 in it, so they could surface for air? Or maybe they were packed too many per bag?

I've read that they can release toxins in transit and poison themselves, but I don't know if that's true.

I am getting ready to start shipping these things in a few weeks and I want to make sure they have a good survival rate, so any suggestions or opinions are welcome. Thanks!

Most cory release toxin, the best way is to stress them like he.. before bagging them, and then do a waterchange before bagging them.

The stress let them realease toxin, and the best is to bag them one and one actually. I think that depends on how long they will be in transit?
Using O2 is NO NO, as they can breath air, and to much O2 will send them into anastecia( right word?) sleep, and kill them...

[apistomaster]

I have either been on the receiving end of box lots of many different Corydoras species and to shipping them out in lots of a dozen and breathable bags are not how I would recommend shipping the majority of species.
I have had no trouble shipping Corydoras hastatus in breathable bags but they are an atypical Corydoras species in many ways.
Using a doubled standard polyethylene barrier bag with O2 or air seems to work best.
Using pure O2 will not harm the fish.
I understand why one might find a flaw with using pure O2 but Corydoras simply are not so dependent on atmospheric air with 21% O2 as to be relevant. It is an excess of CO2 combined with high ammonia levels that kills. Then the issue of self-poisoning due to the excretion of toxins by some species merely makes what is already a difficult problem that much more complex.
The concept of pre-stressing and changing water several times prior to final bagging is theoretically helpful but it's effectiveness has not been born out by empirical experience. Allowing more water for the number of Corys than one might use with other fish of similar mass is about the best precaution you can take.
Not feeding them for 72 hours prior to bagging them will help keep their shipping water cleaner.
The facts are that Corydoras, in general, have always been a troublesome genus for the OTF industry to ship in box lots for more than the almost 5 decades I have been keeping or selling fish. I have shipped in well over 10,000 Corydoras in my life which is nothing compared to some but far more than most hobbyists. Few hobbyists know how many fish arrive DOA from importers but the number is staggeringly high.
That is why they couldn't make it as a business were it not for being able to import 10's of thousands of Cardinal Tetras and marking them up over 500% to help cover their high losses among other species which are harder to ship.
When I owned a fish shop I used to buy at least 100 of each species of Corydoras and the larger the specimens or species were the more likely high shipping losses would be the result. Juveniles and smaller species are always easier to ship than adults or larger species.
I do believe in using a mild fish tranquilizer in the shipping water but I do that regardless of what species of fish I am shipping.
I think only by doing will I convince many but I have shipped in more Corydoras than most any hobbyist on this board.

[jetajockey]

thanks for the replies guys it really helps!

[Coryman]

I have just returned from Washington to the UK and brought around 25 Corys back with me. The fish were bagged up in breather bags, in singles for the larger ones and in 2's or 3's for the smaller ones, each bag was kept separate by putting them in a sock, this ensures the the bags do not touch each other, which would cause oxygen transfer problems.The fish were packed at 8.00 am on Monday morning and were unpacked at 1.30 am on Tuesday with a 100% survival rate.

On the out ward journey the fish I took were in normal 3" x 10" bags, with just enough water (1 1/2"deep max)to accommodate them. These fish also made the trip to the US without any problems.

In both methods I used one drop of Amolock in each bag.

I NEVER EVER use pure oxygen in the bag. Corys can and do often suffer with what can only be described as a the 'Benz' when oxygen is added to their bags. A little may be beneficial, but I would only add about 25% of the bag volume at the very most.

Ian

[apistomaster]

As a hobbyists breeder/seller I have never used pure O2. I use mainly breathable bags.But many wholesalers do routinely use pure O2.
Back when I owned a fish shop I sought out the cheapest sources of fish that would ship to a retail shop and dealt with several trans-shippers. At best all they did was repack 100 or however many large wild, large specimens of Corydors constituted a box lots.
The initial pure O2 filling the bag probably was soon a mixture of excess CO2 and less O2 within hours. That probably kept the fish exposed to more a mixture of gases more similar to Ian's recommendations.
I don't specialize in Corydoras but I did have a run where I bred and raised about 1000 Corydoras sterbai. I mainly sold just salable sized young fish and I delivered those to shops within a few hours drive without losses.

It was only when I tried to ship adult Corydoras sterbai in either individual breathable bags or groups of about a dozen in large air filled poly bags that I finally encountered the peculiar self-induced and apparently potent neurotoxin exudates that adult C. sterbabai produce and experienced some complete losses even in what seemed like more than enough water, plain air and the Jungle brand, Bag buddies fish tranquilizers. Nothing I tried did not help. I even tried pre-stressing and multiple water changes prior to the final fresh water packing.
I still lost entire shipments. Now all my C. sterbai are gone and the only Corys I sell are a few Corydoras habrosus and quite a few Corydoras hastatus in breathable bags and still using Bag Buddies*. These 2 species ship well even in the few cases when the buyer chooses 3 day delivery via Priority mail.
* RE: Bag Buddies. Jungle promotes them as both a source of oxygen and tranquilizer. I disregard the oxygen claim as irrelevant but the active ingredient in the product that tranquilizes the fish is Clove oil. It is sold under a different name and strength as a humane fish euthanasia agent. So never exceed the recommended dosage when shipping fish. Other shippers use another product(s) for tranquilizing their fish but Jungle will not disclose what the active ingredient is in their product and they may make it available by the batch for companies who use significant quantities. They should provide MSDS(material safety data sheet)but that information is not made public. Their website still lists it in large volume containers. I called one of their major distributors and they told me was that Jungle discontinued the product a couple years ago but had not updated their web site in quite some time. So I could never find out what it is/was, no poison control center information is available on it.
I could not find any record of it being currently available yet a well known on line fish vendor claimed to me this last summer to receive fresh product regularly but that was the only person I could find who claims Jungle Labs has the product listed on their web site, an alternative superior to their Bag Buddies for tranquilizing tropical fish according to the only person i could find who claims to be still getting it in large quantities he needs for his vast volume of shipping to buyers of his fish all over the world, "especially the Japanese who are willing to pay the much higher prices the USA market is unwilling to pay." He went on to say, "I only list my leftover or excess stock on http://www.aquabid.com but that hardly amounts to a significant part of his world wide business volume."
It was an enlightening exchange of communications on several levels.
I encourage choosing Express mail because from my relatively rural location they arrive 2nd day delivery to any destination in the lower 48 states.
Corydoras sterbai adults pose a special challenge to ship and there may be similar Corydoras species with which I have no experience shipping, especially as adults. I doubt Corydoras sterbai are unique but due to their popularity, in shipping adult specimens, the issues associated with them must be dealt with. The small specimens usually seen for sale at your LFS are not any more problematic to ship than any other species of Corys from what I can determine. I have no future plans to resume selling Corydoras sterbai but a solution to the problems adult C. sterbai pose for shippers is of much interest to me. Ammonia binding chemicals are widely used but are not of any use when it comes to dealing with those toxic secretions. The ammonia binding chemical reactions subtract at least molecular oxygen from the water. Not quite the same as dissolved O2 but the two are interrelated to some degree. These additives do not solve the toxic secretion problem.

With the plecos I ship in breathable bags I use a impulse sealer to seal the 90* corners at about a 45* angle thus reducing the chances of their spines puncturing the bags. I have tested the species I raise and some large(5 inch) common Bushy Noses using breathable bags, the tranquilizer and even deliberate unprotected bagged fish drops of at lease 4 feet to more than simulate normal shipping environments. I have had to terminate these tests after 7 days due to the fish becoming emaciated. I experience a few shipping losses due to punctured or ruptured bags. The overall actual rate is much >1% averaged over several hundreds of specimens shipped over the past 3 shipping seasons.

[jetajockey]

Thanks for the informative post. I am sending some of my black corys out on monday, express shipping. These guys are still small, about 1/4-1/2 full size, so hopefully they will ship well.

I will take heed to the pure o2 thing. I have an o2 tank but I'll be sure to mix it with regular air a bit while bagging.

I'm also planning to stress them a bit before bagging to see if it helps.

[apistomaster]

I don't think you should stress your young Corys in any way.
Doing so with adult Corydoras sterbai was merely an attempt to reduce their toxic secretion based on a hypothesis. No factual basis has emerged that doing so has been effective. It was merely something that had to be tried. Small juvenile Corydoras ship pretty well. Making sure you have no acute corners in their bags to prevent their spines from puncturing the bags is the best thing you can do.

[jetajockey]

Okay. I will double bag them using extra water as well. I lost 2 out of the original breeding group through overnight shipping. They had them separated in 2 breather bags, 7 fish in total. Had one doa in each bag and one that nearly died while acclimating. The water looked clean visually, albeit a blue tint maybe from methylene blue?

Anyhow, I'm sending two packages out on monday express shipping and with actual styro containers and heat packs, so hopefully they will fare well.

[apistomaster]

I don't recommend using breathable bags for most normal sized species of Corydoras. I have had good success with sending C. hastatus in them but they are not very representative of Corydoras in general.

[Coryman]

Larry,

The technique of mildly stressing many species of Cory to trigger their poison release is something that does work. I have proved it many many times and it is relatively easy to see it happening in a bag of freshly caught fish, especially C. sterbai, C. trilineatus C. metae and C. sodalis to name but a few. Fish that are caught out of a busy tank (One where fish are being disturbed all the time) may show little signs or symptoms of poison release. However fish that are being taken from a well settled tank, will secrete a poisonous fluid from the base of their pectoral fin spines and with those that produce the most toxic, signs can be seen very soon after the fish is placed in a bag or small container. These are usually fine bubbles at the surface and a slight yellowing of the water.

The attached image clearly shows the toxic fluid being release by a female C. sterbai while in the confines of a small show tank. The fish had been caught and tanked very quickly and it was not until it was put into the confines of the show tank did it start to react. The water was completely change within a couple of minutes and both fish were as right as rain within seconds and went on to win the Cory pairs section of the show.

Ian

[apistomaster]

Ian,
OK. I have seen them release the toxin but no adult C. sterbai I have tried to ship have ever arrived alive whether I stressed and changed the water several time before the final bagging. I just don't bother with any Corys any more except C. hastatus. I have never had any problems shipping several hundreds of those. I'll stick with what I am best at.

[jetajockey]

I'm definitely using regular 2 mil bags and a bit of pure o2, I'll make sure there's a bit of regular air in there also. I'm gonna freak em out a little bit, and then change the water a few minutes later, just in case.

[jetajockey]

both shipments arrived in great shape. =]