"L236" spawned

[Jools]

All~

Nice surprise last night to find 10mm youngsters around the tank. This is the fish from Haakon in Norway and so the ones Glaser sold as L236. Might be one of those L4xx Hypancistrus. Anyway, a nice start to the week.

Jools

[Birger Amundsen]

Nice... Congrats:-)

[racoll]

Nice one.

Great to hear someone having some good news after the disasters Marc and Mats are having at the moment.

[taksan]

If they are L236 your rich ....

[Jools]

If they are

L236

your rich ....

I am not sure what they are,

L287

seems to be a distinct possibility.

Jools

[AleGer]

Congratulations!

[corybreed]

That's great Jools.

Congrats.

Mark

[Richard B]

Nice one Jools

[MatsP]

Nice one.

Great to hear someone having some good news after the disasters Marc and Mats are having at the moment.

Hear, Hear. We need some good news from time to time.

--
Mats

[Suckermouth]

You know what they say: "Pics or it didn't happen."

[Jools]

Indeed. It is interesting timing too for the thing I am working on the site at the moment is the spawning report stuff. However, pics will have to wait until I am in the same country as my camera!

Jools

[apistomaster]

Hi Jools,
Congratulations regardless of whether they are L236 or L287. It is always a good day when you switch on the lights and find that any of your Brazilian Hypancistrus species have given you a brood of healthy fry.

L236 has attained almost mythical status and if the Cat-eLog is correct, it is one of the more attractive small species but L287 is also quite distinctive. Either way it is a positive step towards preserving one more species in our hobby.
As frustrating as breeding the small Brazilian plecos may be, they seem easy to someone like me who cut his teeth breeding wild Discus.
There are so many stages in wild Discus breeding for something to go wrong.
Newly emergent rare pleco fry are so large and independent that raising them is a pleasure.

[pleco22]

Hi,
congratulation for spawning a Hypancistrus. Please try to make some pictures, even from the parents. L 287 is not a valid L-Number, and the story behind this L-Number is just a bad joke, but I have a pair of an Hypancistrus type, called L 287 by Aquarium Glaser.

So I call them L 287 (Glaser 2007). As you can see the potential of this type is great, I have hatched just 120 youngster this year. (only one pair)

[Champ-BKK]

Congrat!!! Jools.
Waiting for your pics.

Pleco22
Nice fish look like L236.
Please share how diff from L287 and L236.
Thx.

[pleco22]

Hi,
L 287 was introduced in December 2000 in Datz. The animal was an incidental catch of Panaqolus sp. (L 74) from the Rio Para. That means: 1 animal, no catching location. Perhaps this L 287 war catched in Xingu and then jumped from his tank over to the L 74 tank at the exporter

Than: In February DATZ presented L 287 a second time: This time a Hypancistrus from Curua-Una, a southern tributary of the Amazon.

Later DATZ added L 287 to L 400, that means Rio Xingu. I'm very interested in Hypancistrus and breed L 287, L400 and L 399 regularly. It is no Problem to seperate L 400 from L 399 and from L 287. It is not that easy to separate L 287 to L 399. L 399 differs from location to location. So perhaps the fish Glaser sold as L 287 to me are L 399 from a special location, perhaps not.

Doesn't matter to me, because these fisch are beautiful. Identifying L 236 is not very easy because many rare and spectacular marked fish have been sold as L 236. I know, that I could sell some of my L 287 offspring als L 236 (I will never do).

In Germany there are some breeders with "real" l 236. These fish differs from L 287, L 399 and L 400. And only one out of ten looks like the famous picture in DATZ.

[juventus]

Wana send some to norway?

Congrats anyway!

[bronzefry]

Whatever they are, they're gorgeous. Congrats, Jools!!!!!
Amanda

[Sanplec]

Great news!
I'm very curious about the breedingreport and pictures.
And whatever they would be, L236 or not, they will be beautiful

[jac]

Congratulations Jools

But doesn't it bother you that you just don't know for sure what kind of hypancistrus it really is??
I am a real hypan fan/breeder but tend to admire the expencive "not kinda sure what they are" hypancistrus from a save distance. Even if I would like them a lot,buy them and maybe even get to breed them, I couldn't sell them honest as one specific hypancistrus species. So I tend to not go there.....
There is to much exploitation going on these days to be sure of the exact origin of some species.... Find that a real shame.

[Jools]

But doesn't it bother you that you just don't know for sure what kind of hypancistrus it really is??

It doesn't really bother me, not really, I am less interested in the L number than, for example, how to best keep it alive. The designations of most kinds of

Hypancistrus

are "unofficial" and the names we call them only really have a temporary use in ensuring we don't create hybrids. Perhaps it's because a lot of the fishes I've kept over the years I don't really know what they are or found out while I was keeping them! For me, the point is to record what you have, what they do, and share that so the next generation of keepers do know what they have, what to do and so on. More generally, I have also been numbed towards being bothereed about not really knowing what some fishes are because I run a website that has hundreds of such things too and I have seen a lot of these fishes in nature and that always helps you keep it vague!

Bear in mind it's quite possible that all these varieties of fish will end up being officially known as three or four, or even one, species. Which is why we should keep them apart in the meantime.

All that said, if L287 is better defined to clarify the aqualog goof, it will appear to be that fish.

Jools

[wrasse]

Hi Jools,

Congrats my young padawan.

I reckon you secretly like L46

If it has whiskers, a fab pattern or a weird evolved shape; I want it!

[corybrummie2010]

Congrats Jool and good luck in raising the fry

[krazyGeoff]

Good on you Jools.

Indeed it is good to have some good news.

[Jools]

You know what they say: "Pics or it didn't happen."

I'll see your pics and raise you a video. I am pretty comfortable these are L287 having had a few chats with various folks about it. L287 has been "fixed" as the lower/mouth of the Xingu fish.



Jools

[pleco22]

Hi,
please post some pictures of the parents.

[Jools]

Parents here:

L287

and also

Jools

[apistomaster]

I want to know where you were when they did the deed.
Can anyone verify your alibi?

[Jools]

All that said, if L287 is better defined to clarify the aqualog goof, it will appear to be that fish.

Despite quite a lot of literature, L287 appears to be a one off, nothing can be it L-number. So, although not invalid in a scientific sense, it's useless as a moniker. However, all these fishes match it and indeed the "lower xingu".

More research on this and it appears the goof was with DATZ and it's been made even more messier. So, anyone tell me how to tell L399 apart from L400 and I might be able to tell you what these fish are.

Jools

[Zebra46]

Jools,

Have a read here:

http://www.l-welse.com/reviewpost/showp ... roduct/415

Vieuwed from above L400 is more plump compare to L399 which is more slender.

[pleco22]

Hi,

when L 400 and L 399 are adult, it is not very difficult.

L 400:
- Long and flat head, looks like a long nose
- stays smaller
- shorter fins
- smaller eyes
- typical pattern are dots (wormlines often)
- males show massive odontodes all over the body
more related to L 174 Type

L 399:
- short head (like L 66)
- longer elongates body like L 66
- longer fins
- typical pattern is wormlines
- grows bigger
more related to L 66 Type

That description fits to the L 400 and L 399 I have, and helps me very often to seperate L 400 from other variants. Problem is: L 399 is very similar to L 287, L 345 and some other variants of L 66. So for me L 400 is not the problem - L 399 is.

To the video:
I have never seen any L 287, or L 399 with dots on the tail fin. This is more common to L 333 or some lines of L 236.