Otocinclus Breeding

James0816 · Post by **James0816** » 29 Sep 2010, 00:43

Breeding activity increasing. Found more eggs in the holding tank. Counted (11) that I could quickly see. I turned the light on only briefly to check on the Sunkist shrimp when I noticed them. Was going to do a water change in this tank but wound up working late. Will do one tomorrow prior to the hatching. Four wigglers still accounted in here and getting fat.

In the main, it is safe to say that there are over 30 fry guys in here. Everywhere you look, you see them. All have colored up very nicely. I do need to thin out some of those small snails though. Noticing quite a few of them in there as well.

Over in the Cocama tank, I found another berried Sunkist. That's two now within two days. Gotta get the hatchery set up pretty quickly.

Running through some shots I took so we'll see what turns out.

James0816 · Post by **James0816** » 29 Sep 2010, 02:15

Here's the best shot I could get today. Turns out it was the toughest though. Here are a few eggs under a cypt leaf.

James0816 · Post by **James0816** » 06 Oct 2010, 00:21

Eggapalooza in the holding tank. There are eggs and new fry hatchlings all over this tank today. The females must not have been able to wait to lay eggs as they even placed them all over the glass. Here's a nice shot to illustrate the findings. You'll even see a fry that is only a couple of days old in the pic.

Over in the main breeder, did a 20% water change in there. Didn't like what I found. The filter cartridge looks like it has been dyed a greenish color. Swapped out the media for new. Also pulled the pre filter to give it a good squeezing. The water from the sponge was the same greenish color. This is consistant with the water stains in the sink and tub that we get.

Definately not good. Just shows how bad the well water got during the drought. On top of that, well water is now brown due to excess rain. From one extreme to the other. Will have to buy a few jugs of spring water to get this one back in order. Will have to get a TDS reading but fear it's going to be pretty high. Youch!

On a brighter note, the fry continue to grow and remain extremely active. The plants are growing increasingly fast. And this is without any fert dosing. I stopped dosing due to the drought so keep water changes minimal.

Wow!

James0816 · Post by **James0816** » 06 Oct 2010, 23:17

Found (2) dead tiger shrimp in the main tank. That bothers me after the copper thought. I have placed an order for a copper test kit and some CupriSorb just to be safe. Will be getting several gallons of spring water tomorrow to do at least a 25% water change.

Juvies are so active. I went to the back of the tank and they were just swarming in the back. Here's a video snippet:

Over in the holding tank, there are new wigglers all over the glass. Still have a lot of eggs to hatch out tomorrow. Here's a better shot of the ones yesterday. You will see one of the wigglers that hatched yesterday.

Topping off tanks this evening. Blanching fresh zucchini.

James0816 · Post by **James0816** » 08 Oct 2010, 00:36

Most of the eggs in the holding tank have hatched. There are still a few on the glass the are in progress. Why I was examining the tank for others, I noticed the new wigglers swimming in and out of the fern. This my first observance of ones of this age swimming around. Normally they stay put for awhile.

Had another idiot of week move. This one involved my main breeder. Left the filter off! Dad gummit! During my last maintenance, I unplugged it as the water level was pretty low. So I was going to drip the new water in and the turn it on later.

Dummy me, I didn't catch it until today when I did another WC using spring water. I was wondering why there hardly any flow coming from it. Then I looked and BINGO...still unplugged. DOH! Got it plugged in and the flow still wasn't all that great so I took the opportunity to clean it properly. Pre-filter just about expired. It's starting to fall apart. Will have to pick up some more sponges.

Fed fresh zuc and the powder feed. I think this may be what caused the green stains on the filter and in the sponge. Just a thought as it wasn't present in any of the other tanks. Not sure, but sill will test for copper when the kit comes in.

James0816 · Post by **James0816** » 08 Oct 2010, 23:38

Copper test kit arrived. Great news! No detectable copper in any of the tanks. Whew! I feel better now. So I'm guessing now that my theory of the powdered food is what caused the green stain. As long as it wasn't harmful I'll do it again. I believe that method helped to attribute to the the higher success rate of the fry.

Little guys are all over the zucchinis. Giving it a good work over.

Over in the holding tank, there are new wigglers all over the place. Almost every pane of glass has some on it.

nvcichlids · Post by **nvcichlids** » 09 Oct 2010, 00:09

I know Jac and I believe Harvord both have had pictures of young loricariidaes with spikes on their heads, and I find it amazing that Oto's also have it.

James0816 · Post by **James0816** » 09 Oct 2010, 15:50

I know it's early but I wanted to share this with you. Stand by for a major posting.

Went down to the basement this morning to start working .. ok actually cleaning. As usual, I always check the tanks first. I walked into a major hornets nest.

Details to follow.

James0816 · Post by **James0816** » 09 Oct 2010, 16:16

Alrighty then. As mentioned just awhile ago, I walked into a major hornets nest when I walked downstairs this morning. By hornets nest, I meant major spawning! Again it's in the holding tank! There are eggs all over the place......again.

When I first checked the tanks, I saw some spawning activity. Needless to say, I didn't have the camera so I just watched for a couple of minutes. Then I thought maybe I should try to get it but they would be done by the time I did. Wrong. Started filming and the activity never stopped. Actually increased at times. Shot a ton of video and some pics too.

So we'll just start with a couple of still pics.

Here's is one of the older fry in the tank:

Some of the eggs found:

And now, the moment you've all been waiting for. Ladies and gentlemen, I present you....The Double Spawn:

Now if I can just figure out the deal with the lighting. May have to play the camera in video mode more.

They were still going at it when I came back up here to post this. These two gals were just overwhelmed. I'm sure they will have a nice relaxing break when all is said and done.

I don't know if I should classify this as a holding tank anymore but as another breeding tank. ;)

James0816 · Post by **James0816** » 09 Oct 2010, 18:34

Today is definately a scratch for doing any work down there. Just went down again.....(3) ladies are now in the fray! Incredible!

andywoolloo · Post by **andywoolloo** » 09 Oct 2010, 21:26

incredible, you are the oto king.

hey, if you did have copper in the water system somehow, how would you have got rid of it and where would it have come from?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 09 Oct 2010, 22:03

Good work.

Copper could probably be removed with a carbon block filter, particularly something like a HMA (Heavy Metal Adsorbtion) carbon filter.

--
Mats

jbmm · Post by **jbmm** » 10 Oct 2010, 08:50

and I thought the water treatment stuff always claims to remove the copper (tetra aquasafe, sera aqutan)

edit: remark that copper is used to treat against some parasites like planaria. It is possible that if you remove metals, you also remove the last inhibitor for planaria to grow... and that is not a breeders friend ...

jac · Post by **jac** » 10 Oct 2010, 09:53

Started to follow your tread as it came up so often that I couldn't resist it anymore

It's just the most amazing topic to follow!! Well done

And great documentation!
Keep up the good work

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 10 Oct 2010, 10:33

jbmm wrote:and I thought the water treatment stuff always claims to remove the copper (tetra aquasafe, sera aqutan)

edit: remark that copper is used to treat against some parasites like planaria. It is possible that if you remove metals, you also remove the last inhibitor for planaria to grow... and that is not a breeders friend ...

The dechlorinator treatments contain something like EDTA, which is a "neutralizer" for many metals, yes. But it doesn't remove them as such, just "neutralize" - forming a chemical bond that prevents it from being bad for the fish, etc.

I doubt the levels of copper from tap-water will have much effect on invertebrates in the tank [assuming the tap-water is within a reasonable margin around the legal maximum - chemical spills and failures of some sort excluded].

But you are right, copper salts are used as medication against all manner of parasites. So at least for adult fish and for short periods, copper is definitely not harmful to fish. I have a feeling it can, in some instances, have a different effect on fry and eggs, but I'm not sure.

--
Mats

James0816 · Post by **James0816** » 11 Oct 2010, 13:34

andywoolloo wrote:incredible, you are the oto king.

hey, if you did have copper in the water system somehow, how would you have got rid of it and where would it have come from?

lol...I'll have to give them all the credit. I just sit back and watch.

The copper, in my case, would come from the piping from the well to the house. We have a few runs of copper pipe. That was my initial concern when I saw the greenish stains on the filter media and then when I squeezed out the pre-filter. Luckily it turned out negative using the API copper test kit.

Seachem has a product called CupriSorb that rids it from the water column. I bought some to be safe but doesn't look like I need to use it at this time.

The concern is more for the inverts in the tank (Tiger shrimp and Briggs snails).

James0816 · Post by **James0816** » 11 Oct 2010, 13:37

jac wrote:Started to follow your tread as it came up so often that I couldn't resist it anymore

It's just the most amazing topic to follow!! Well done And great documentation!
Keep up the good work

Thanks kindly. I'm hoping this journal is able to provide as much information as possible for other potential breeders. Hopefully we can help this little fishy out from the treatment they receive from capture to eventually our homes.

James0816 · Post by **James0816** » 13 Oct 2010, 21:58

Check of the tanks. Found (14) visible wigglers in the holding tank. All continues to look good in here. No telling how many may be hidding in the fern. Will be topping the tank off and stirring the sand a bit.

20% water change on tap for the main tank. Juvies continue to grow and doing very well. Really working over everything.

Topping off the other tanks as well. Prepping fresh zucchini.

Mike_Noren · Post by **Mike_Noren** » 13 Oct 2010, 23:24

Have you solved the problem with fry survival?

James0816 · Post by **James0816** » 13 Oct 2010, 23:47

Mike_Noren wrote:Have you solved the problem with fry survival?

I'm not completely sure but the last brood from the main tank, I had a pretty good survival rate. Out of the over 50 eggs I found, I manage to raise just over 30 fry. My thinking on this was the food. After day three of hatching, I started feeding a powdered food. I'm using this over in the holding tank but not know how many fry I have to work with it will be very hard to tell.

James0816 · Post by **James0816** » 17 Oct 2010, 16:46

Major maintenance on the holding tank today. Actually started yesterday but continuing into today. Removing most of the sand and giving it a good scrubbing/cleaning. It was turning colors and even though I kept it shifted, it wasn't working. So had to pull it out, wash it and then put it back. One section looks too far gone. It looks permanently stained gray. I have it out in the sun right now to see if that will help.

I did wind up sucking up a baby yesterday during the process. Luckily he was up far enough on the side of the jug that I was able to use a turkey baster and pull him out. Whew! He swam right off as soon as I put him back in the tank. Hopefully he will be just fine.

Continuing with cleaning and trimming the tanks. Pulling quite a few Dwarf Sags as well. They wound up growing behind the big plants amongst the crypts. Two very nice size runners with several plantlets. Nice.

Bas Pels · Post by **Bas Pels** » 18 Oct 2010, 08:04

James0816 wrote: One section looks too far gone. It looks permanently stained gray. I have it out in the sun right now to see if that will help.

My guess: it will

Actually, having lots of tanks, I often have a bucket of sand which needs sifting - and sometimes even more. It turns out the dry sand - sitting in a bucket for long enough, will turn yellow again.

Looking at it from a chemist's point of view: the sand has turned grey (or, in my case, black) due to lack of oxygen to digest food leftovers. The preocesses are nor oxydation-related, but reduction related - that is, the other way. This has resulted in compounds which normally don't form, and the sulphur in the proteins is the reason for the blackness.

These black, reduced, compounds are quite vulnerable to oxydation, forming SO2 and SO3 - both gasses. This way, the sulpher disappeares, and the blackness is gone as well.

Personally I like to sift this yellow again sand - once before using it again.

Obviously, I hardly sift any black sand anymore - I just wait untill it has restored itself.

Keeping fishes has to do with patience, isn't it?

James0816 · Post by **James0816** » 18 Oct 2010, 12:56

Yeah...I just chalk it up to not adequately turning it over. I'll have to do a better job at it. I thought about MTS to aid in that, but don't know how they are with eggs. I know Briggs don't bother eggs and I have one large brown ramshorn that doesn't either. But they aren't sand shifters.

James0816 · Post by **James0816** » 20 Oct 2010, 00:46

Fry in the holding tank seem to be doing well. Really not sure how many I have in there though. I do seem to see quite a few out and about. Constantly on the go. Still working on the rescaping and sand cleaning. Should have it all cleaned up by the weekend.

Juvies in the main tank are growing like weeds. I may have to start thinking about moving them over to the bigger tank.

Prepping fresh zucchini.

On a side note, was at PetSmart earlier today and looked in the Oto tank. Was a bit surprised that there a couple of O. Macrospilus in the mix. Just what I've been looking for. I picked up (3): 2 males and a female. This balances out the numbers for that tank. Still a bit young but we'll see how it goes.

My search continues for O. Flexilis and O. Mimulus.

James0816 · Post by **James0816** » 23 Oct 2010, 16:25

Quick check of the tanks before heading out the door. More eggs found in the holding tank. This is a very good sign considering all the work that I have been doing in this tank lately. Counted (12) at the moment.

Unfortunately, I didn't find any fry.

Hopefully there may be some in the Java Fern. I've been working some late hours and didn't feed them using the new method.

Will be doing more work on the holding tank tomorrow to try and get that finished. Water changes on tap for tomorrow as well.

James0816 · Post by **James0816** » 24 Oct 2010, 17:04

Found a fry guy yesterday and this morning in the holding tank. Makes me feel a little better. More eggs were laid yesterday. Will see how many I can count in a bit.

Messed around with the wife's DSLR camera. I might be getting the hang of it. At least in regards to my subjects standing still.

LeeRoy · Post by **LeeRoy** » 26 Oct 2010, 22:07

Nice pic of the little guy.
Thanks for showing.

I realy like the oto's, but I do not own any at this time.

LeeRoy

James0816 · Post by **James0816** » 27 Oct 2010, 23:08

Thx. I'm hoping to improve on my camera skills once the macro lenses come in.

Oto's are magnificent little guys. I highly recommend them in almost any community type of tank.

James0816 · Post by **James0816** » 30 Oct 2010, 15:56

As expected, the spawn has began in the holding tank. I can see (6) eggs at the moment. Ladies are sooo plump. The question will be if this will be the major or just continue the trend of minor laying? So far the females aren't really unloading but when they do, I can only imagine what it is going to look like in there. ;)

Fry in this tank are getting increasingly active.

The main tank has just overgrown itself. Hard to believe that it was trimmed no too long ago. Might not be able to do any good maintenance this weekend with all the halloweed festivities but will have to try to do some.

James0816 · Post by **James0816** » 31 Oct 2010, 16:19

Ladies still haven't had the big spawn that I was expecting in the holding tank. They seem to just be laying a few eggs here and there each day. Very interesting behavior. They laid a few more last night including one on the glass. Counted (23) at the moment. Ladies remain very plump. Will continue to monitor.

Over in the main tank, the ladies there are the same way. Looking to bust out of the seams. I think it's overcrowding issue as before. They seem to hold onto the eggs when there is too much activity in the tank.

Otocinclus Breeding

Update 28-Sep-2010

Re: Otocinclus Breeding

Update 05-Oct-2010

Update 06-Oct-2010

Otocinclus Breeding - Update 07-Oct-2010

Re: Otocinclus Breeding

Re: Otocinclus Breeding

Update: 09-Oct-2010

Re: Otocinclus Breeding

Re: Otocinclus Breeding

Re: Otocinclus Breeding

Re: Otocinclus Breeding

Re: Otocinclus Breeding

Re: Otocinclus Breeding

Re: Otocinclus Breeding

Re: Otocinclus Breeding

Re: Otocinclus Breeding

Otocinclus Breeding - Update 13-Oct-2010

Re: Otocinclus Breeding

Re: Otocinclus Breeding

Otocinclus Breeding - Update 17-Oct-2010

Re: Otocinclus Breeding - Update 17-Oct-2010

Re: Otocinclus Breeding

Otocinclus Breeding - Update 19-Oct-2010

Otocinclus Breeding - Update 23-Oct-2010

Re: Otocinclus Breeding

Re: Otocinclus Breeding

Re: Otocinclus Breeding

Otocinclus Breeding - Update 30-Oct-2010

Otocinclus Breeding - Update 31-Oct-2010