Economic meltdown

[grokefish]

What are your opinions on this happening in the next 3-4 months?

[MatsP]

Wake up, it's already happened over the last couple of years. Or are you saying it's going to get much worse in the next 3-4 months?

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Mats

[grokefish]

Yes I'm talking about proper meltdown.

I have been discussing this with people that are very well informed/knowledgeable in this and the general opinion from some is that the us dollar is gonna be knocked off its pedestal to be replaced by an Asian colaboration similar to the euro initiated by the Chinese.

This is sorta penciled in for the next 3-4 months in their possible outcome predictions.

While others say nay.

I admit this could be all a load of guff but it got me thinking about doubling up my supplies cos the worst that could happen is I have 6months of food.

What say you of the likelihood of this?

[mummymonkey]

I'd say the tinfoil hats are over there.

[MatsP]

Well, a common asian currency, according to google, appears to have been discussed for at least 4 years. And just becasue it's the biggest currency in the world doesn't mean that for example the Euro, Dollar or Pound suddenly looses all it's value. After all, the chinese wants to export to the US. If the US dollar falls in value, the chinese goods become more expensive in dollars, but not in the common asian currency. For the sake of argument, let's call it Asia Dollars, or A$ for the moment. Also, for simplicity, right now, we say that the A$ is the same as hte US$. The Chinese company produces a TV that costs A$20 at the exporter level. Now imagine that the US$ falls to a value of 0.5 A$. The exporter still gets A$20 for his TV, but the importer will have to pay US$40 for it. The importer now has to double his price (or at least raise it a fair bit, if the importer is willing to take a bit of a loss). What does that do to the Chinese company? Reduced sales, I expect.

So it's no good for anyone to allow that to happen. Except perhaps some egoist on the money market who invested heavily in the A$ and now selling for twice as many US$.

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Mats

[Mike_Noren]

You've been talking to Tea Partiers and/or american libertarians. Glenn Beck, the chief spokesperson for that movement, and Ron Paul, another leading figure, both push the idea that the US will suffer hyperinflation and collapse of currency in the near future. Their suggested remedy is to disband the Fed and return to gold as the basis of the US economy; they also advise their followers to invest in gold. Both have been doing this for a long time, in Pauls case for decades.
They also both have interests in gold trading operations: Beck with Goldline, and Paul owns his own gold trading company.

In short, no I don't think there's all that much reason to worry.

[grokefish]

I have not been talking to tea partiers, but they sound like fun.

I have been talking to genuine financial heads about it.
I have to admit that economics is not my strong point and I find it really hard to grasp the idea of global economic collapse, I cannot see how it is a viable event as it were.

It does seem a bit suspicious with all the 'Cash for gold' that has been hammered down our throughts on the tv, what are they up to?

I spoke to my brother about this, he is very clued up about this stuff and he says it is about a most unlikely event to occur.

[MatsP]

"Cash for gold" on telly is almost certainly along the same lines as "we'll lend you money at 100% interest per year". That is, it relies on people who either don't know the value of their gold, or are despeerate enough to not care.

Of course, like all the other things, if a market goes down, investors will (try to) find another market that is less likely to loose them money - so for example, invessting in gold is a "good alternative to shares". So gold prices go up as the stock investors sell their stocks and buy gold. This, like so many other things, go in cycles. At some point, the gold price will hit some high value and everyone will start selling, and then invest somewhere else, because the "bubble" has burst.

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Mats

[MOO]

Found another................This ones a mystery it overlaps.

Matty

[PlecoCrazy]

Our idiotic government keeps borrowing money from the Chinese (Federal Reserve) so who knows. I definitely thinks is plausible that with our current leadership anything can happen. I'd trust my 15 year old son to make better common sense decisions than our president. Its a scary thing and I think if Obama continued another term it would be more possible but many of us over hear want nothing more than to get this guy, his administration, and all of the career politicians (republican and democrat) out of our government. Glenn Beck may support Gold but Gold has nothing to do with what the tea party stands for. November will change things greatly for our country I have a feeling! I am at least hopeful!

The Tea Party stands for God, a united nation who embraces all races and/or religion equally, lower taxes, less government, less unions, limited social services, etc. What America was founded on! Glenn beck has to have sponsors and goldline is one of them. I have no stock in gold, anybody can see with our idiotic spending something is going to happen. Any business I know that takes out loans as they are going under still go under. The US is doing the same thing. I have a father in law who has been on unemployment for 100 weeks starting next week. Our government payed him for doing nothing for almost two years now. They are idiots, how can any country afford to do that. Who knows what will happen but it is a very scary mess that our leaders have gotten us in and apparently they just like making it worse. Of course I'm sure all their buddies (lobbyist) make out on all of the bail out and stimulus programs they hand out. Stimulus is another word for spending money these days, they just use reverse psychology to make it seem like they are doing us a favor. The people want one thing, the government does the opposite. Of course all the people living on hand outs have grown accustomed to it since its been going on for two years so now they all throw fits they second someone talks about not giving them money for nothing anymore. All I can say is God Bless America and hopefully it doesn't come down to global currency and global governance.

To answer your question directly, I believe many in our government actually want this to happen. The people are waking up and I think we will get enough of the right people in place this November to prevent that from happening.

[andregurov]

When/if economic meltdown arrives, it won't be because of any nefarious collective bent on undermining American values. It will happen because of simple, inexorable, undeniable human greed; a motivator for almost all economic development just the same.

I think we in the United States have forgotten that world economic crises were rather commonplace before our ascendency to the "throne" of the world political-capital order. Economics is, generally speaking, a self-recognizing predictor: what is anticipated follows, not always due to engineered effort or federal interference, but because of EXPECTATION. Consumers do NOT behave in an always rational manner, but in irrational ways depending upon their own fears and hopes. So ... if we fear worldwide economic meltdown ... it may just be a matter of time until people begin to behave as if it is an imminent reality. Some of us are, evidently, ahead of the curve.

As Keynes would summarize, in the long run we are all dead.

[L number Banana]

Wow, heavy topic but I wouldn't worry, there's too much at stake for any government to allow thing to get as bad as depicted in the 'scare channels'.
It's funny that the more fear the politicians can instill in the public, the easier they can control the public and get away with nasty things. See George Bush.

Obama wants "Crazy" things like accessible health care. I pay very high taxes and I'm happy to. Hubby just stayed two weeks in a hospital, had very serious surgery on his spine, numerous MRI's, Catscan, ultrasound, home care, etc and what did we pay for all that? Zero, nothing, nada, nieta, zilch.

I've been seeing a Doctor for regular stuff for 44 years and paid NOTHING. Rich people are healthy and poor people are healthy - healthy people make the economy I've never used a hospital but my taxes have helped my mother-in-law, my father-in-law, my Aunt and my Mom. Worth every dime - low taxes would be ducky if they kept all the services. As any rational person knows - there's no free lunch and if you don't take care of your neighbours, they may need to raid your fridge.

The bad old government regulated the greedy banks and Canada didn't have a meltdown like some other countries did - Germany got through it well also. 'Government interference' it was called when the gov of the day first brought in all those rules. It saved our collective arses.

If you guys don't want Obama, can we have him? I'd like to request that we have New York as well - we need a snazzy state like that. I'd like Stephen Colbert and John Daly as well but I suppose you guys won't give up your best assets that easily

We'll be watching November with big lumps in our throats- best of luck.

[Bas Pels]

@ the system of economics - I can only agree with L number Banana - who is not bananas

If a poor man gets sick, for lack of insurance, he might inflict me - which I don't like. If somebody who gets unemployed - and in most cases this is due to insane risks, taken in the boardroom, not his or her own fault - is without money, they might get desparate. After all, the worst? free hospitality in jail - much better thna starving in the streets. So I can only agree the strength of an economy can best be measured by looking at the poor people

Back to the next few months: I do see the US dollar loose its value - vs the Euro, and perhaps the Yen and China's currency - but not more than 10 %. A common Asian currency will not be possible in a few months - and looking what happens between the main countries - India, Japan and China - they are still speaking, but not much more. Very close relations are the most important part of a common currency - as we see with the Euro

Would this cheaper US dollar result in a melt- down? I don't think so

[sidguppy]

The Tea Party stands for God, a united nation who embraces all races and/or religion equally, lower taxes, less government, less unions, limited social services, etc. What America was founded on!

you have been swallowing the propaganda hook, line and sinker

wow. spend a lot of time on Fox TV or Glenn Beck's radio show, I guess?

first, your lacking of American history is fairly large.
the founding fathers (Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franlin, George washington etc) did their very best to avoid any religious connection to the Constitution of the United States.
the same goes for the Bill of Rights.
there's no state religion mentioned in it.
the USA were founded as a secular political system without any version of christianity tacked on.
remember, these were the very guys that still had a good memory of England and especially Cromwell and the Puritans.
they did not want to repeat those mistakes.

also, much more recent, but it's a fine example: you ARE aware of the fact that the phrase "under God" was incorporated into the Pledge of Allegiance June 14, 1954?
not exactly founding Father material, that.

the original pledge of alliance goes like this:

I pledge allegiance to my Flag and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

it was written by Francis Bellamy in 1892, and he was a Christian socialist

now let's see what the Tea Party is made of...
racists (like Dale Robertson, the founder of this movement), people who use the N word at protests whenever an African-American government walks by; they really hate the idea of gay marriage or equality for gays and lesbians, they revile immigrant Mexicans and other people of Latino ancestry, they oppose a womans own choice of reproducion or the terminating thereof, they would LOVE the idea of America starting a war with and killing a couple of million citizens in Iran, they loathe all Muslims, blacks, Arabs, Asians etc.
your average Tea Party member is white, male, older than 45 and so far rightwing that even the regular Republican party isn't good enough for them

and that after 8 years of Bush and Cheney. even Dick Cheney himself isn't extreme enough for the Tea Party.

Glenn Beck is a prime example, this guy spews hatred in the air night after night and even promotes people to go violent on president Obama and other members of his administration.
in many other countries he would be arrested for hate-speech or subversive behaviour that causes a threat to the government and peace.
this guy is channeling someonevery very bad. it is pure and undiluted propaganda.

about God blessing America.
what if this God would bless ALL people, not just Americans?
what if God decided to bless the Catholic Latino's south of the border?
worse, what if God would bless the Muslim population of Palestine?
aren't all people children of God? or aren't Muslims people?

or are only the proper sort Americans and especially the Tea Party members worthy of the blessing of God?
"God With Us" so to speak?

then let me aducate you a little bit more.

once there was a very nasty and very bad little man with a funny moustache.
he orchestrated an enormous war and a horrible holocaust wich costed the life of millions and millions of people.
particulary those of other colors and other religions were killed in numbers so big, it boggles the mind.
he had also a nasty radio host working for him, a Glenn Beck version 1.0 sort of. that man was Joseph Goebbels.

His boss too was convinced that he had "God on his side" and that God would bless -and only bless- his chosen people.

his prime fighting corpse had a little pledge with them. they carried it on their belt buckles on their uniform.
those words said "Gott Mitt Uns" wich traslates as "god With Us"
those fighters were the Waffen SS.
their boss was der Fuher Adolph Hitler.

looks like the Tea Partys channeling founders all right, but not the writers and thinkers of the constitution.
unfortunately they chose a different crowd; the henchman of the Third Reich.

[MatsP]

I'm looking carefully at this thread. Please beware that politics is one of those areas where people have VERY strong opinions, and can get "upset" if you don't agree.

If this gets out of hand, I have no qualms about locking this thread. I've seen a good forum destroyed by, essentially, difference in opinion over politics - the forum was not about politics at all, but people got upset about that someone else didn't see the world the same as they did and couldn't accept that the other party wouldn't change their opinion.

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Mats

[PlecoCrazy]

Wow sidguppy, you are way off. Yah Glenn Beck has a mouth and it gets him in trouble. Much of it has to do with the way he tells a story. He will start off by making a radical statement to get your attention, then he will go on to explain his radical statement. The media usually takes that radical statement and then doesn't bother to pick up after the commerical break so all you get is his attention getter and no substance. blah blah blah

I am apart of the tea party and we are not about starting no war. We talk about turning back to God but we aren't refering to the christian god entirely. All religions, christian, jews, islam, buddah pretty much believe in the same priciples and values. Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you, not stealing, not killing, etc... We want all races and religions to turn back to the principles and values that can unite us again as a country. If we all tried to be better people we'd have better people running our country. That's what its all about. Its not about pushing Christianity. Its about pushing the principals and values that God stands for in all religions. Even if you don't believe in god you should still have those same values and principles. Those values need taught to our children and we need to teach by example. I could go on forever off your post but it probably won't do any good so I will wrap up.

The teaparty did not like bush politics at all so why make the comparison. Dick Cheney and Bush were progressives in disquise. You have to cut taxes and government spending at the same time and they cut taxes and then spent like crazy. Obama comes in and then spends more than they did in eight years during his first 2 and gives tax breaks for everything under the sun that's green. The tea party are not extremist at anything except being extermely peaceful. Even with all the slanders we can still turn the cheeck. I know the liberal media plays it that we are a bunch of radicals but we are just a bunch of down to earth people trying to make are country better again. The media is not our friend. They try to turn us peaceful people in hate radicals which is just crazy. They call us racist when all we want to do is unite all the races so we can all be treated equal. Go figure!

The way you talk make's it seem as if your on the high seat. To compare us to the Nazi's I think is getting a bit slanderish.

I meant purposely not to exclude anyone. I'm not sure for your attack. I wish God to Bless you sidguppy and all of the world. I am sorry for not including all of you. I will pray for us all.

This will be my last post on this topic as it seems to have gotten out of control.

[PlecoCrazy]

I am actually disappointed in myself. The website I come to completely for relaxation and enjoyment has now turned in something that is not that.

[Bas Pels]

I am actually disappointed in myself. The website I come to completely for relaxation and enjoyment has now turned in something that is not that.

I agree this topic did become not something nice. BUT I think your above postings was what made it nasty

I disagree wholeharty with every letter you wrote. I don't believe in any god, for instance, so any movement to return to whatever motives this god is dupposed to have is dangerous. Because, what values do you listen to?

However, Grokefish started about economics, not something else. The tea party - as scary as I think they are, has not much to do with econiomics, do they?

So, please, keep them out

[MatsP]

Ok, that's enough. Locked.

Just to clarify: I locked the topic not because of what any particular poster has posted, but rather because it's heading in the direction where people are starting to irritate each other. And as I said, I've seen it go that direcction before, and people leaving the forum simply to avoid having to see someone posting an opposing view in the political thread...

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Mats