pl*co vs. leporinus

[hankinswood]

I am wondering if anyone has experiance keeping pl*ecos and banded leporinus together. In my 125 gal. tank I have raised a group of 5 leporinus to about 7 inches in length and have loved having them, however my main focus in the tank has been the mixed collection of 19 pl*ecos, and I love them a lot more. Last night after feeding a couple pieces of sweet potato I noticed the largest leporinus was savagely biting my plecs of drive them away from the food, I was used to bickering and chasing one another, even among the pl*ecos themselves, but now I am very concerned about real damage being done and have decided that the leporinus group has got to go. My real question is if I might hope that by reducing the number of them down to just a single individual leporinus if some of it's aggressive behavior might be dampened? I have a single flagtail prochildus that is a modle community citizen and shares the same food sources with everybody at an acceptable level of bickering but no damage to it's tank mates. Does the leporinuses teeth doom it as an unacceptabe fish for my tank?

[MatsP]

In general, agression between different types of fish gets worse the fewer there are of a particular type - it has no "friends" to quibble with, so it attacks any others...

--
Mats

[apistomaster]

Do you have Leporinus fasciatus? I have seen some almost twice as long as your specimens and maybe a good 14 oz if not a pound. I have often stocked 4-6 inches long specimens when I had a shop and they are quite persistently obnoxious. If they harass your plecos that may be mostly irritating but if you actually begin seeing split fins on your plecos or missing pieces of fins you may have to give up trying to keep them together.
Like some large plecos species, L. fasciatus can live up to 20 years in captivity.

[hankinswood]

Yes, they are l.fasciatus. I was charmed by the youtube videos of wilds plecos while a school of them grazed in the same river bottom, and they have been a beautiful fish in the tank, but nobody gets to bite my suckermouths and hang out for long.

[sidguppy]

My real question is if I might hope that by reducing the number of them down to just a single individual leporinus if some of it's aggressive behavior might be dampened?

nope.
as said before; these are quite obnoxious fish and the smaller the number, the larger the aggression

Leporinus is a nice looking fish, but unfortunately it's also a terrible nipper
this behaviour lessens once they're mature; but they can and will compete for food.
they should only be kept with large mobile fish that have a fair bit of character of their own

think in the vein of ex Cichlasoma umbriferum (Umbee), Nandopsis festae (Red Terror), Aequidens/Adinocara rivulata (Green Terror), etc.

a single Leporinus will quickly develop to a compete and utter tank terrorist and between the most agressive cichlids from the Amazon, leporinus still gives them a run for the money.

[apistomaster]

The group of large Leporinus fasciatus I saw were being kept with Pacus and Perrunichthys all 20+ inches but as you said, large aggressive Amazonian Cichlids with plenty of attitude would be appropriate companions as would any of the larger Pike Cichlids. It would make an nice display if you like your fish large. I would think large plecos should be safe too but I probably wouldn't combine them with any of the expensive species.

Life is so much simpler keeping wild Discus with Hypancistrus and/or Peckoltia with maybe a dozen Dicrossus filamentosus and some small Tetras and Penecilfish. One can even keep the tank planted a bit. Leporinus probably eat any plants except perhaps and that is a very qualified suggestion, Bolbitis, Microsorum and Anubias. I wouldn't bet on even those.

[hankinswood]

Good things can come from change. I originally bought the leporinus quite cheap at 1 1/2 inches long and my favorite LFS agreed to take the whole group at 7 inches and give me a beautiful new L204 in trade. I am feeling pretty good about it but still will have to wreck the tank tomorrow to catch the boogers out of there. Thanks for the comments.

Jim

[apistomaster]

Better get out a tarp to spread around the tank as it will probably leap 3 or 4 feet out of the water just when you think you have it cornered.

[fishboy20]

I'd recommend keeping L. desmotes. I have found these always with shipments of L. fasciatus. They get half the length and have none of the aggression L. fasciatus has. I am keeping two L. desmotes in my 150 gallon tank with Geophagus, Scobiancistrus and Liosomadoras.