Madtom with worms

pickles4601 · Post by **pickles4601** » 23 Sep 2010, 01:33

My friend recently gave me 2 madtoms (stonecats i think) he collected in a local stream. They area about 3-4 inches long. Today I noticed one of them flashing against the rocks and saw 2 white worms attached to him. 1 near the dorsal fin and 1 near the eye. I could tell they were worms as they move. I also noticed after checking through the day that they changed position on the fish. there is no redness or other irritation on the skin. Skin flukes perhaps? They are very small about 1/4 inch in length. They also appear to be breathing heavily.(Gill flukes?)
They eat fine though. Gobble pellets.
Its a 30 gallon tank with a syno and a striped raph and these 2 stonecats. What is the best way to treat them?

Post by **Silurus** » 23 Sep 2010, 05:24

These sound like anchor worms (Lernaea) to me. Best course of treatment would likely be Praziquantel.

Richard B · Post by **Richard B** » 23 Sep 2010, 11:29

Aren't madtoms coldwater species?

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 23 Sep 2010, 11:58

Richard B wrote:Aren't madtoms coldwater species?

They are, they tolerate quite warm temps, but also cool temps, and I expect keeping them at tropical temperatures for very long periods (years) will shorten their potential lifespan, as they are used to having a cool period of the year.

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Mats

pickles4601 · Post by **pickles4601** » 23 Sep 2010, 13:19

the tank is about 75 degrees. is that too warm for madtom? Im waiting until they get a little bit bigger to move them in with my sunfishes and channel cat.

Both madtoms have moved from their caves to the corner where the airstone is. The seem to like swimming up and down in the current in the corner. The one with the worms only appears to have 1 now, the one attached near his eye. the one on his back by the fin is gone.
Now that i mention it...when my friend gave them to me i noticed a white filament on the eye itself. I assumed it was just loose slime or scuffed up skin from being chased and netted. It may have been this parasite attached to the eye? Can parasitic worms move about on the skin?

I looked at google images and the pictures of anchor worms dont look like what i have. There is no redness or irritation at the worm area. And my worms appear to be one piece where as the anchor worms look like they have 2 tails.

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 23 Sep 2010, 13:27

If it's a parasite of almost any sort, then Praziquantel, Flubendazole or Metronidiazole (or a combination) is the cure. It's not terribly important to identify what kind it is, it's the same medication for all of them [ok, so MOST are killed by all of the above, but a few types of parasites may require a particular variant of the above medications, but in general, it's not important which you choose to use].

--
Mats

Post by **Birger** » 23 Sep 2010, 14:02

the tank is about 75 degrees. is that too warm for madtom?

It would make a difference what species you have.
If you do have (Stonecat) they cover a wide distribution range so are probably quite adaptable.
I would not keep a heater on with them as it is not necessary, Make sure the water is well oxygenated though.

Birger

pickles4601 · Post by **pickles4601** » 23 Sep 2010, 14:35

im 99% sure it is stonecat. ill up some pix They were collected in north west Pennsylvania, USA from a creek. I have 2 HOB filters and airstones so it gets pretty good O2.

Ill head out to the LFS and see what deadly poisons I can come up with to kill these lil buggers. Any product in particular? Probably heading over to Petsmart/Petco. If i go to independent aquarium stores i usually come home with more fish....

MatsP · Post by **MatsP** » 23 Sep 2010, 14:48

Birger wrote:I would not keep a heater on with them as it is not necessary, Make sure the water is well oxygenated though.

Birger

But a striped raphael and a syno would (most likely) want a temperature around 75'F to be happy.

--
Mats

Post by **Birger** » 24 Sep 2010, 01:48

MatsP wrote:
Birger wrote:I would not keep a heater on with them as it is not necessary, Make sure the water is well oxygenated though.

Birger
But a striped raphael and a syno would (most likely) want a temperature around 75'F to be happy.

--
Mats

Derfinately...I missed that sentence in the first post.

Post by **Birger** » 24 Sep 2010, 03:26

im 99% sure it is stonecat. ill up some pix They were collected in north west Pennsylvania, USA from a creek.

Nice...these are the only catfish in my province and only in a very small southerly area that is connected to the Missisippi drainage. High on my wish list.

Birger

pickles4601 · Post by **pickles4601** » 25 Sep 2010, 01:57

I picked up a pack of Tetra Parasite Guard. It has praziquantel,difflubenzuron,metronidazole and acriflavine. Let's see how it goes.

Side note: petsmart had syno longirostris for 4 bucks, got one. Their little guys now, about an inch.

Post by **Birger** » 25 Sep 2010, 02:19

Side note: petsmart had syno longirostris for 4 bucks, got one. Their little guys now, about an inch.

Side note to your side note...there was a run of hybrids which had been sold using that name, it is a definite possibility that is what you picked up.

Birger

pickles4601 · Post by **pickles4601** » 25 Sep 2010, 02:57

They were reduced from 15 to 4, a pretty big cut. Maybe the word got out that they were not "pure". Like I said he's pretty small now (about an inch), hard to tell if he's a mutt.

He swims in an odd manner. Making fast level circles in the bottom of the tank. Idk, maybe he bumped his head when I poured him in. Well see how he does.

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 25 Sep 2010, 10:57

can you put up a picture?
Synodontis longirostris is rarer than you think.

I've seen several different kinds of syno's sold as such; including true non-hybrid species that looked like it, but weren't

also; I hope it's not in the tank with the madtoms

Syno's are even fussier than platydoras when it comes to cold water.
if they're kept below 20'C (you have to transmute it to fahrenheit, I can't work with that) they're ich-magnets or at least magnets for a long list of diseases wich can jump over on your other fish.

Noturus shouldn't be kept at temperatures over 22'C for longer than a few months
in summer they'll be fine, but in winter they really need a cool or cold period.
if you skip that, they won't breed or last long at all.

best set up an unheated tank for the madtoms and a tropical tank for the syno and the dorads.

pickles4601 · Post by **pickles4601** » 25 Sep 2010, 13:43

No the syno in in tank w a few yoyo loaches and mollies. The madtoms are in a heated tank w a raph and a feather fin syno. I'm waiting till they get bigger and then in with sunfish and channel cat.
I'll try to up a pic but like I said hes small. They had him labeled as syno.long.....

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 25 Sep 2010, 15:10

I think what appear to be worms are really a parasitic copepod like but not necessarily Anchor "worms" but the difflubenzuron should work well on these and the other ingredients will cover many other true worms and I think some Trematodes are also a strong possibility on their gills. The metroniadazole will clean out the parasitic flagellates they may be carrying.
I am not familiar with the Terra product but it sounds like one I want to look into. Be sure to treat them long enough to catch latent hatching eggs.

I think Madtoms of most any of the smaller species could become pretty popular if hobbyist breeders could produce them in good numbers as collecting is fun but not practical for many.

pickles4601 · Post by **pickles4601** » 25 Sep 2010, 20:53

d'oh... it should be Tetra, not Terra. sorry. It says for anchor worms to treat once a week for three treatments with a 25% water change between. I think thats what ill do.

I took some pix of the Syno in question. I started a new thread over in the African Catfishes section to keep this one on topic:
http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... =8&t=31007

pickles4601 · Post by **pickles4601** » 15 Oct 2010, 23:55

I forgot to update yinz but.... a bout a week ago madtoms started hanging above the airstones, I'm assuming because the o2 was higher there. Soon after they both died.

the next day the raph started hanging out above the airstones too, I'm assuming he was infected with the worms, possibly on the gills. A few days later he also passed.

The feather fin syno appears un affect. I am keeping the tank quarentined and am running another treatment of the above meds. Wish me luck.....

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 16 Oct 2010, 03:32

20*C = 68*F
OK for Madtoms but not for any of the tropicals.
Sorry to learn your Madtoms did not survive.

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 18 Nov 2010, 14:51

Silurus wrote:These sound like anchor worms (Lernaea) to me. Best course of treatment would likely be Praziquantel.

Because Lernaea are actually parasitic copepods and not a true worm of any kind, the insecticide, trichlorofon/Dylox, which is found in Clout, is specific for killing arthropoda like crustaceans(parasitic copepods and any other arthropod.

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