first attempt at sand

[BIGblue]

I'm gonna give sand a try. I've never tried it before, but i've been reading up on it a little. I've read that a lot of people use play sand. Is all play sand the same? Is it necessary to clean the sand? The sand I got has a powdery residue, so I know it has to be cleaned. I was thinking of just putting the sand in a bucket, and let it letting the water overflow to get all of the residue off. Does this sound like a good idea?

Any tips or help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

[Caol_ila]

Hi!

I dunno about american playsand but some german playsands have antifungizides added which has to be declared here. This sand cant be used of course.
In my experience, the sand is better if it has very few dustlike residue...
Good luck

[Graeme]

I recomend Silica sand.





Graeme.

[S. Allen]

depends on the brands... as mentioned there can be chemicals involved... I've heard some companies even use reclaimed road sand, used to help in traction on icy roads and many times doused in melting agents. I used play sand but made sure it didn't have any chemicals on it before using it.

Washing is important. easiest way is a 5 or 8 gallon bucket, filled half full with sand and then plunge the end of a garden hose to the bottom of the bucket, it'll stir up the sand and the fine particles stay suspended till they spill over the lip of the bucket. do this a while or you'll be sorry. You can also just run the hose in and stir it with your hands, which works well too. I didn't wash long enough, and although right off the tank looked good... http://scott.aaquaria.com/waitingforrays.jpg the second I added stingrays the water clarity went all to hell. http://scott.aaquaria.com/images/rays/big/09.jpg extremely frustrating to not be able to get a decent picture of your new and long-awaited fish.

[dgecko]

I have been using sand for the last year with no problem. The sand I use comes from a swimming pool place its used for the sand filters. It settles down fast and my tanks stay clear. Cost is about $12 a 100 pound. The 100 pound is the only way the pond people sell it here. I wouldn't use it where you have fish that like to dig but it does great with my plecos and corrys. I have tried putting my Tropheus on gravel, bare bottom tank, and sand and I can tell the difference between the fish. The ones on sand are bigger, more robust and just plain look healthier. Good luck fishing

[Barbie]

I use sand in all of my tanks. I specifically pick the larger grain sands, as they are easier to clean and not as likely to compact and form anaerobic layers under them. IME, pool sand was finer than I liked, as was play sand. The very best deal on sand that I found was the "airport grade" sand that I had in Anchorage. It was basically very small gravel, and it was wonderful. I picked it up at a sand and gravel yard where a friend of mine had seen it. They charged me 5 dollars for 2 5 gallon buckets full. (*please note, 5 gallons of sand is ungodly heavy). You could gravel vac it, and the stingrays loved it. I always recommend that people use less than 1 inch of sand in their tanks, in order to avoid any problems.

When I clean the sand for my tanks, I take a small bucket and put two inches of sand in the bottom, and rinse and stir well until the water stays clear after I stir it, then I add that to the tank. It keeps you from getting a hernia trying to lift a big bucket of sand up over the edge ofa tank, and it also keeps you from putting too much in accidentally.

Hope that helps

Barbie

[Jools]

Other things to think about are what filtration and how to configure it and what depth of sand.

Filters tend to get clogged with sand over time especially if you are using relatively powerful ones to the tank size.

Sand depth of over 2cm can give you problems with buried gas that if released in sufficient quantities can kill fish.

Jools

[S. Allen]

there are species that will help prevent the anearobic pockets that cause the gas. BJ reccomended hoseface loaches. You can also probably use any fish that is appropriate for the tank and stirs up the sand. I would think most species of whiptails would do a decent job, but I can't swear.

Of course, the safer way is to just go with a thinner layer ;)

and yeah... for filters, sponge prefilters will be your best friend... I didn't use one and lost a penguin 330 due to it. when it finally died I took it off and found it was half full of sand.

[Jools]

Actually it was clown loaches that I managed to kill. I moved some small-medium sized ones (about 3-4") to a tank with about 2" of sand. They and the other fish in the tank (there were not many) were all dead in the morning. They had only been dead a handful of hours. I found more gas pockets as I replanted the plants that the clowns had evidently uprooted - presumably they also hit the gas pockets while digging.

As an experiment (it was only a 3 foot tank), I removed some sand and introduced some golden barbs the next weekend. They, and the rest of the fish I moved in were fine without a big water change. Seems whatever the gas leaves in the water removes itself after a while.

[doctorzeb]

We also lost 3 loaches, 2 of which were 7" and we had had them for 5 years without a single problem. Then over the space of 24 hours three of them died, with no apparent signs. To stop this happening again, I reduced the amount of sand to about 2 cm and removed the majority of the sand from below the stone caves.

Now whenever i clean the tank, I give all the sand a quick "stir" with my finger. I also slide one of those acrylic bendy shatterproof rulers under the main structures just to make sure.

Apart from the little extra work, sand seems to have worked out well, only problem being the loaches find it easy to uproot the plants!!

rob

[Sid Guppy]

Some time in the past, I switched to sand, and stayed there ever since.

Riverine tank, African setup, Tanganyikan, Asian bogwater, you name it. Just sand with either slate, pebbles, bogwood, holeyrock, or whatever it is that's nice looking or useful in a breeding tank.

In breeding tanks, I usually put about 2-3 cm sand, unless it's a digging species.

In the other tanks I often grow live plants, so I have to use more sand, often 5 cm or so.
To avoid the gasproblem, I don't use playsand (too finely structured), but the slightly coarser riversand.
Usually I use a sieve (those metal or plastic things that look like a giant tea-sieve) to get out the gravel.
And in all the showtanks, digging fish are used;
in the riverine 7 Corydoras and a pair of Horseheadloaches, in the Tang-tank it's cichlids and THE vacuumcleaner ....Auchenoglanis.

NO gasproblems with that monster sucking up the sand , I DO have all these interesting floating plantspecies (tiny things like Giant Crinums and fullgrown Lotus), so I had to put a few pounds of rock on the roots


IME Botia's, Syno's, Lophio's, Dorads, Auchenipterids, Pims, Bagrids, Phyllonemus, Pleco's etc don't dig at all. They just "scoop" the food from the upper layer of the sand and only very occasionally stick their nose/mouth in the substrate.

To avoid getting a "crust" (and gaspockets), you need a true digger!
The best diggers are all the Callichthyds (with the exception of Dianema that usually doesn't dig at all), Horsehead loaches (Acanthopsis), DoJo loaches (Misgurnis anguillicaudatus), some Claroteids (Auchenoglanis, Anaspidoglanis, Parauchenoglanis), some of the biggest Dorads (Pseudodoras niger), a few Loricariids (Rhineloricaria, Hemiloricaria, Pseudohemiodon) and the smaller Trichomycterids, wich unfortunately are hard to get by.

Luckily for us, any decent LFS usually has Corydoras. 5-7 of those will do their excellent job in any tank.

If you need more digging, any Megalechis (Hoplo) will do a good job too.

[BIGblue]

What are some other ways to prevent this gas build up? I plan on getting 2 Microgeophagus ramirezi and 2-3 corys. I doubt these fish are going to move the sand enough to get rid of the trapped air. Also, I have about 2-2.5in. of sand. I'm starting to think this is too much. How deep should my substrate be for a 10 gallon? I want it to be deep enough so I can add some live plants, but not so deep that I'm going to increase my chances of having the gas build up.

Thanks

[sidguppy]

1 or 2" (inch) or 3-5 cm is fine. And if the filtration is in good orner, don't worry about anaerobics.

you can add a bit of bacteria-culture to your tank, it's sold at good LFS specifically for this problem; they're line-bred bacteria that'll keep the substrate OK.

Adding Burrowing Snails might work (they're not my favourite animals!) but they breed and breed and breed....

but you already have a better solution: Corydoras! let me put your mind to rest:
YES, they'll loosen the sand and
YES they'll do it enough for a healthy sandfloor. Corydoras are very useful! add a few more if you like.

other useful critters are Horsehead loaches. They too stay very small (about 10 cm, but very thin), extremely peacegul, fine with Rams, Cory's etc.

In Europe, another kind of substrate is making great progress here!
It's artificial quartz sand; small rounded grains in every color available.
I don't hold much with blue or orange sand, but some of the colors are very nice, and digging fish will like it; it's very well-made, can be mixed with sand, darkens the substrate (fish show more colors on a dark substrate) and very soft on fins, mouths, whiskers and fishkeepers' hands too.

A pic is more explanation:

not a cat, but still a digger that appreciates a soft substrate.....

Summory:
Sand = #1!
artificial quarts is #2, but has better colors

mixing it up = Creme de la Creme, top of the bill, yada yada etc

[Dinyar]

In the US, the best -- and most expensive -- aquarium sand is Seachem Onyx. It is a grayish-black, moderately large grained (for sand), rich in iron (which is good for plants) and has a mild buffering effect. Great stuff, looks cool, but at $12-15 for a 7 kg bag, is a bit on the expensive side.

On another note, as Sid points out, you need more than 2 cm of sand if you're going to grow plants. Gas buildup should not be a problem if the tank is heavily planted because the plant roots bind and aerate the sand and over time, and an aerobic layer of 1-2 cm effectively seals off the anaerobic layer below.

Dinyar

[Fishedin]

Can the sand be kept clean with conventional siphon 'gravel' cleaners

Is sand difficult to maintain if you keep wood eating plecs (+wood obviously)

[Fish_Tank]

I have a question.....I have a 50g with a sand substrate and i was wondering if the eel i'm putting in (nota catfish ) will stir up the sand enough? should i stirr the sand up before i put him in?

[deadantstomp]

I have been using sand for years in my tanks and never had any problems. A few notes:

CLEAN YOUR SAND BEFORE IT GOES IN YOUR TANK!!!! If you have a backyard and waterhose this is easy but really clean it for a long time. If you have to do this in a bathtub or shower (as I do these days), it is going to take you a long time, but clean it until the sand settles in a few seconds if you stir it up.

If you can get sand from a stream, this is the best (pretty clean, good grain size, intact bacterial culture). If you don't have access, be careful what you pick, but currently I am using quickcrete playsand in my tanks. I found it at home depot so it is probably pretty easy to find most places. I was kind of sceptical but it seems to be fine after some serious cleaning. And a note from my LFS, some sands are largely calcium carbonate and if you use them in freshwater tanks, your hardness will go through the roof and stay there. For riftlake tanks, great; for everything else, think twice. Others have discussed other good sources so I will move on.

I always move some sand or gravel from an older tank to new one to make sure to get a good bacterial culture going. Get the right stuff going in your tank and you are golden.

Lots of folks don't like snails and I don't know why, but if you are using sand, nothing beats the little Malaysian burrowing snails (trumpet snails). You won't see them all that much, but they will constantly plow through your sand and clean things up and they leave cute trails when they travel across the surface. And I also love red ramshorn snails(the little guys) for many reasons, but even though they don't stay in the sand, they will also plow through it from time to time.

Others on the board have talked about cories, who do a great job, but their cousins the Brochis are even better. And banjos are the best. You won't see them too often, but it is awsome watching them dive into the sand or appearing out of nowhere. It is kind of fun trying to find their little faces sticking out of the sand. They also have a strange knack for always being burried deep right where I am trying to plant a new plant anytime I add greenery to their tank, but they just go dive in the sand somewhere else. I haven't tried loaches (as I like my snails).

I always keep live plants in my tank and they seem pretty happy. I have kept tanks with very deep layers of sand in the past to give the root room to grow and no real problems from it with burrowing snails and tons of plants.

My filter never suffered when I used an external filter AND cleaned the sand really well. If you don't clean the sand really well and have remotely active fish, all those fine particles which should have been washed out before are going to end up in your filter everytime they get kicked up. I was using an internal submersible filter on a current tank, but it always ended up sliding down the wall of the tank and getting gunked up when it got close to the bottom, so I decided to just take it out and the tank is doing great with no filtration, only aeration (the tank is established, has a ton of plants, regular water changes).

A warning about aeration: if you put your airstone near the bottom, it will blow sand up into the water column constantly, even if you cleaned you sand well. It settles again quickly, but often on your plants and can weigh down their leaves, so make sure it is at least a few inches off the bottom and putting a rock underneath the airstone can help.

Using a siphon to clean sand works great if your sand is clean (ie only fairly 'large' heavy grains). Experiment with how close to put the siphon to the sand, but unless your siphon is super strong, most sand particles will fall back down if you are careful.

hope this helps.

[mallemalle]

i caught my sand on a "beach" thats in marine waters, i dont belive that its any risk at all, there is no reason for the bacterias to survive in my freshwatertank. i also have some snails we here in Norway call siamese sandsnails, these snails is turning the sand all the time and only come out in the open when its time to do an waterchange, im only told this so i dont know if its true.



malle

[flyinmike]

I just revived an old post on this subject with an update. You might find something helpful there. I used swimming pool filter sand from Home Depot. They sold me busted open bags for a greatly reduced price (it's cheap to start with). If you rinse it until it will all settle within a couple of seconds you should have no problems with clouding and it will actually vacuum quite easily. I've even found that by strategically directing current flow you can cause detritus to accumulate in one corner making for some very easy cleaning.