The Nugget Chronicles .

[TheFishGuy]

Welcome to The Chronicles of Nugget. Nugget is a South American Redtail Catfish.

Before you start with the normal "You can't keep this fish" I assure you I can and will keep it. The purpose of this thread is to show people NOT to get one of these fish. I've spent the last four years rescueing giant fish and placing them in homes I felt were the best for the fish.

I plan to catolog his growth rate and diet along with any other changes that may come about. From the RTCs that I have rescued in the past this guy seems to have hatched about two months ago making his birthday July 4th. He's two inches in length including tail. I will always include tail in the measurements.

The background is this. A local store, Johns Aquarium, is going out of buisiness. This was one of his very last fish he had in stock, I bought it so no one else would. John knows how I feel about monster fish and knows how upset I was he was selling pacu and big cats. At any rate, I've decided that Nugget, so named by my oldest daughter, would be a part of the family for as long as humanly possible. The decision took about 45 minutes to make along with alot of discussion with my wife. We have a 14' 1200 gallon tank that will eventually be his home. For the moment he's sharing tank #18, a ten gallon tank with a handfull of 1/4" jewel fry... I'm sure in a week or so he'll graduate to a thirty, then a 70, then a 125, then a 185, then the big tank. In the summer he can spend his time out in the pond

At any rate, here he is, Nugget.

[brashgordon]

Good luck with nugget.

[worton[pl]]

Hey,

I must say that is sounds very reasonable . Looks like at least one RTC will have a long and happy life . And Nugget is really cute!

How long RTC may live?

[MatsP]

How long RTC may live?

50-75 years - perhaps more.

--
Mats

[andywoolloo]

i've never seen one that small. he is adorable the potential or rather inevitable beastie!

I look forward to seeing his progress!

damn he is cute!

[TheFishGuy]

On the way home yesterday the kids and I were discussing how old we would all be when I'd have to rent a back hoe to bury him...Because I'll be too old to dig by hand! LOL

Apparently he enjoyed his first nite here. He's got a tiny little belly on him! LOL

[Viktor Jarikov]

Lots of luck, Jonathan! I admire your confidence, courage, commitment, and lack of superstition. You must surely know EXACTLY what you are doing to start such a bold and ambitious thread. I hope I will see big N. if I ever make it to Orwell.

[Suckermouth]

How long RTC may live?

50-75 years - perhaps more.

--
Mats

Where is that estimate from?

[MatsP]

From discussions on this forum. Do you have a better one (that is, more scientific)?

Edit: I just searched the internet, which said about 15 years. But I expect those fish are around 3ft long - nowhere near their ultimate size, and die from lack of suitable tank-space, rather than because they are "old". Bearing in mind that many of the tiny catfish live for a dozen or more, I'd definitely expect one that can grow to five feet to last a lot longer than a 2" fish...

--
Mats

[Bas Pels]

Although a RTC is not a Platydoras - they are not even the same family - but still, I got my Platydoras in 1988. I expect them to live for quite a few years, reaching 30 years or more. RTC is much larger

However, taking care of big RTC is not easy, and therefore I would interprete any info ion the internet as a minimum

[TheFishGuy]

My hope is that this thread will help to inform many fish keepers about this fish from my first hand experience. The crazy part about this is I've nver raised a RTC and firmly believe in they should not be sold. The only reason I bought this one was because the store was closing, this was an opportunity to get one but not enable the owner to run out and get more to sell... I also have the unique experience of rescueing these fish from other fish keepers who could no longer keep them. I've nursed one back from near death and urine burns which stained his skin a permanent yellowish color. So I've kept the beasts, but only as beasts.

My last attempt at keep a large cat was a TSN named Tigger. Tigger jumped from a 14' tank after being spooked. He shot out like a bullet and hit a block wall knocking himself out and I was forced to euthanize him. RTC's don't seem to spook as easily as TSNs so my hope is that incicdent will not happen again.

The 1200 has an automatic water changer on it of the DIY design and is completely adjustable according to stock. I can go from a drip an hour to 500 gallons and hour. So water quality will not be an issue in the future. I wish I had that option when I rescued the one near death. Having to wait for the tank to drain and re-fill took hours...

No one has asked, but the reason Nugget is in a ten gallon is so it is no challenge for him to find food. Once he gets slightly larger I'll start to train him to hand feed and get him off live food entirely.

The same method is used when breeding fish, keep the fry in small confines so they can find food easily... Then move them to something larger once they equate you as the source of food.

[MatsP]

Sounds like a great project for many reasons. The main one is that most people who say things like "Don't buy one of these fish" [me for example] have never kept them, and are immediately told "Well, you've never tried to keep one, have you?" [usually in conjunction with the original poster assuming that because a 55g tank is so much bigger than the biggest tank they have ever had, is adequate for rather large fish!]

I'm not entirely sure that 1400 gallon is enough for the entire lifetime of the fish, but it's definitely good for some foreseeable future. I'm sure you are aware of this too!

And your explanation of the 10g tank is good for me. A 2" fish will work fine in a 10g tank - it's only a problem when the owner has nothing else and no good plan to get something much, much bigger.

--
Mats

[Viktor Jarikov]

I think we touched upon this in another thread, but people say RTCs can get to 5-6 feet, I mean witnesses who travelled to S. America. As I mentioned once too, Mr. Ray Lucas of Buffallo NY said he saw firsthand 7-8 foot specimen. Oh my! I'd dearly, dearly love to see one live this size. 14', 1200 gal will not even begin to cover for such a giant, but likely they grow real quickly only in the first years and it will take ten or tens of years to get to the 5-8 foot marks? Also, what glass thickness and glass pane length can handle a blow of a 30-pound 5-foot spooked fish?

As for the age, in prior discussions, I think the majority felt 30-50 years was a reasonable expectation under ideal or near-ideal living conditions throughout their entire lives.

[TheFishGuy]

The glass in my tank is the same size and thickness as a friend of mines glass in his 15,000. 3/4"x30"x72". Only difference is my glass is horizontal, his is verticle... So I don't think the glass thickness is an issue.

As for m tank not being big enough, I'm aware, and I'm also aware that I'm not following my own advice by saying buy the tank then the fish because life's what happens when you're making other plans!

I do have plans for a fish house to break ground in 2014. it will be a 40x60 building with a few ponds set up on a heated floor, but the building will house at a minimum a 20K tank for pacus and large cats. I have the land and the know how to build it (I'm a carpenter/contractor) and have many friends in the trades, the only one of which I'll be calling on is the mason. I want the tank to be block. Haven't decided on shape or final dimentions but it will more than likely be "L" shapped. I'm a big fan of having breaks in line of site.

By the time it's ready for Nugget, Nugget will be ready for it!

[Viktor Jarikov]

Amen.

Good luck!

[andywoolloo]

are the two white spots you can see on his back ok? Not fungus or something or is that normal.

such a cutie pie.

no they shouldn't sell those poor guys, he is so precious. i am glad he is with you.

wow you had a big fish jump out of a tank? poor thing.

can they live outdoors in big ponds?

what do they eat ? as they age i am sure it's a different diet?

[MatsP]

wow you had a big fish jump out of a tank? poor thing.

Just the same way small fish jump out. If you have seen salmon jump rapids, you know that pretty large fish can jump quite well. Large pimelodids are ambush predators, so they will "attack" using good acceleration.

can they live outdoors in big ponds?

If you live in a country where the pond temperature will stay above 25'C/77'F throughout the year [and not get too hot during warm time of the year], either through use of heating or naturally, you can. Where I live, the ground temperature is about 14'C/57'F, so it would require on average 11'C/23'F over ambient temperature to keep one of these - that's a lot of heating!

what do they eat ? as they age i am sure it's a different diet?

Almost anything: fruit, fish ("dead or alive"), "seafood", etc, etc. Obviously, as they get bigger, they will need bigger portions, but realistically, the same type of food should work throughout their lifetime.

--
Mats

[TheFishGuy]

As he gets bigger I'm very excited to try fruit. I had never tried it with the others that were here...

Here's a link to a photo album about Fankie. There's before and after pics...

http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/jstraz/Frankie/

[andywoolloo]

before and after what?

big tank.

[sidguppy]

I don't think this is a fish that would live for such a longtime

some large catfishes are in for the long haul; but those are slow growers.
some loricariids and Doradids for example would be able to live for a few decades and I expect the larger Mochokids to be in there for 30-40 years; there was an adult Synodontis granulosus at Verduijns that was imported at subadult size in 1973 and it died just 2 years ago.
wich means that it was probablyolder than 40, ince they do take time to reach mturity

Red Tails however grow incredibly fast, almost as fast as Pangasius. they should be able to reach 3-4 feet in just 2 or 3 years. fish with growspeed like that are often shortlived.
they grow fast, lay enormous amounts of eggs and die after a few breeding seasons.

the longlived fishes are always slowgrowers;they take 5 or even 10 years to reach a true mature size and then last for years and years
the Sturgeon is a fine example of these

no, I don't think any red Tail lasts for 50 years; I think 10 at the most is a much more realistic figure, since it's of the "grow fast, spawn in the millions", not the "grow slow and go in for the long haul" type.

[taksan]

I don't think this is a fish that would live for such a longtime

I think 10 at the most is a much more realistic figure, since it's of the "grow fast, spawn in the millions", not the "grow slow and go in for the long haul" type.

I had one for 27 years ......

[MatsP]

I had one for 27 years ......

And how large was it at that point, and do you know what caused it's passing?

--
Mats

[Viktor Jarikov]

Red Tails however grow incredibly fast, almost as fast as Pangasius.

Not in my hands, Alex. My (3"-5" bought) RTCs doubled in size in a few months and tripled in size (length really I mean, the weight increase is far larger) in ~4 months (~ same as my Leiarius Marmoratus and Pictus). My ID sharks (3"-4" bought) added maybe an inch or 1.5" after the same time! I wish they grew faster.

But your logic has good merits, I just wonder if there are many exceptions to this rule of thumb. Sturgeon is a really nice example you give.

before and after what?

apparently before means "just rescued" - his shape and state is pitiful! After means after Jonathan took good care of him - he looks healed up and healthy, good color, form but still holds his fins close to his body - possibly a sign of phycological trauma from a long time abusive keep.

Here's a link to a photo album about Fankie. There's before and after pics...

Why Frankie? I was hoping to see the Jumper-Suicidal-type TSN Tigger because that fish was just discussed above.

[TheFishGuy]

Look closer at the before and after pictures. When we got him all or most of his fins were worn down to nubs after living in a 125 for 7 years...

As for RTCs only lliving ten years. I believe you are wrong, while your theory is somewhat true you need to take into account that RTCs are apex predators. They grow quickly in first few years to avaiod beig eaten, then they slow down. I know of one that is in it's mid twenties and still acts like a juvi! LOL He's just over four foot...

[andywoolloo]

oh i do see what you say now. much improvement. i was distracted by that big tank and nice sand.

now that's an awesome fish.

[TheFishGuy]

Great news! Nugget ate a sinking carnivore pellet last nite... Practically by hand! LOL Something about hand feeding a 2" redtail doesn't compare to feeding one that mistakes your hands as food! LOL

No more live food for Nugget! LOL That didn't take long! LOL

[TheFishGuy]

Well, this was short lived. This morning Nugget was covered with Ich. I treated appropriately and he was dead when I got home this evening.

Water temp was 78*

[MatsP]

Sorry to hear. Doesn't sound like it was too cool. Water quality problem?

--
Mats

[TheFishGuy]

Not water quality, possible stress from the move. He was in the bag a while, temp may have dropped on him then. You know how ich is, it can lie dormant for a good while. The store owner had warned me to look for it. I did not see any when I cought him out of the tank at the store...

[Viktor Jarikov]

just like you yourself said, Jonathan, life happens while you making those other plans...
don't give up - get a Nugget 2...