how to get my L226 plecos to breed

[cichlidman16yearsold]

ihave been trying to get my plecos to breed for a long time now. they just wont. so does any one have any ideas on how to get them to breed so i can start selling babies to people.

[2wheelsx2]

I have some plump ones and some hairy ones with very visible odontoides which I think are males, but none of them seem interested in anything but eating.

[cichlidman16yearsold]

ya that is all mine are interested in to is food. i think i have males and females

[MatsP]

I moved the post, because I think it's more to do with the fish, and less to do with the tank - of course, we need BOTH to be "right", but I still think it's better to have this in the Loricariidae section.

As to the actual question about breeding, I would suggest you read the breeding articles on breeding P. maccus and L204 in the Shane's World section. Of course, this fish is not the same as those, but it should breed in a similar way.

--
Mats

[racoll]

If you can give us some more information, we might be able to to give you some more specific tips.

e.g.

How many fish?
How big?
Sex ratio?
Time spent in tank?
Tank setup - hardware?
Full water parameters of tank?
Other inhabitants?
Feeding regime?
Water change regime?

[cichlidman16yearsold]

How many fish 6
How big 4 to 5 inches
Sex ratio dont now that is why i ask how you tell male form female
Time spent in tank 2 years
Tank setup - under gravel and drift wood and some fake plants and pvc tubs for caves
Full water parameters of tank- tank is full at the time
Other inhabitants- none. and should i put some thing in the tank that stay at the top of the tank. so not to mess with the l-226s
Feeding regime- ever other day. they wont eat ever day
Water change regime- ever month or so. i have been trying different things for this one. i have run the tank haft full and filled it a little each day. to try to simulate rainy season. and i have done a lot of other things

[MatsP]

Sexing: Males will have hairy body, gill-cover spines, and more hair/spines on the hard ray of the pectoral fins. Females will be slightly "fatter" on the mid-secction, and less of the hairyness/spines.

"Full Water parameters" mean that we want to know what your water is like in the tank, as many as possible of these, particularly the bold ones;
pH, GH (general hardness), KH (carbonate hardness), TDS or electrical conductivity, nitrate, nitrite, ammonia

Also, what are you feeding them?

When you are simulating "rainy season", what is the water parameters (as per above measurements)?

I don't think this is an EASY species to breed, but not impossible either.

--
Mats

[racoll]

You might be trying to run before you can walk.

If they are ready to breed, you should have no difficulty in sexing them. The fact that you can't sex them, tells me they aren't in breeding mood! They sound like a decent size though.

Until then, fill the tank up, and keep water quality high with two 50% water changes a week, and feed them more than every two days!

They should have veggie food available 24/7.

In my experience an undergravel filter is also a bad idea for these fish. They are messy, and uneaten food may rot in the gravel and affect water quality.

You will be more likely to have success with replacing the substrate with sand, and using an oversized external (canister) filter. Take all precautions when changing filters and substrates though.

A dumb question - are you 100% sure they are L226? Post a picture, just to make sure.

and should i put some thing in the tank that stay at the top of the tank. so not to mess with the l-226s

A few tetras, rasboras or small barbs will do no harm, but avoid other catfish or bottom dwellers.

"Full Water parameters" mean that we want to know what your water is like in the tank, as many as possible of these, particularly the bold ones;
pH, GH (general hardness), KH (carbonate hardness), TDS or electrical conductivity, nitrate, nitrite, ammonia

And temperature - this is very important!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You also need to know the closely guarded secret to breeding all fish ...

[cichlidman16yearsold]

ok well the ph is 6.0. they are eating the O.S.I. Spirulina Wafers. they will not eat the food in the tank if i feed them ever day i can put 4 in each day and the wont eat every day.
I will change my substrate to sand. Any ideas on what kind and color?
The temperature in the tank is 70 to 75. It stays room at temperature.
The nitrate, nitrite, ammonia are all Zero

[hotplecogirl]

Looks like all males.I would also remove the under gravel filter part and feed veggies.

[MatsP]

...
The temperature in the tank is 70 to 75. It stays room at temperature.
...
The nitrate, nitrite, ammonia are all Zero

Temperature should probably be a bit higher than 75'F (24'C) at all times (at least when not doing rainy season simulation - which should be for a few weeks at most). Do you not have a heater in your tank? I suggest you get one.

You need a new nitrate test kit. I guarantee that if you are only changing water once a month, the nitrate level is absolutely NOT ZERO ppm - if your test kit says it is, then the test kit isn't working right [and it's been recorded that these tests do go off after some time].

And the pictures look like they are of the same fish (or all of your fish have the same "bite" out of the dorsal fin, same bit of membrane missing a the rear part of the dorsal, and a shortened ray on the caudal fin - which seems highly unlikely to me...). If that is really three different fish then the problem breeding them is, as hotplecogirld suggests, that you have three males - but it really looks to me like a single fish photographed three times.

--
Mats

[jac]

All 3 pictures are of the same fish

[cichlidman16yearsold]

yes all the pic are of the same fish. and the nitrate do change but not that much. i have done a lot of test and iam doing one tomorrow on the tank. all of the test. and i will post more pic and all the test results i get. and i have done multiple nitrate test and even taken them to pet stores to have them done all come up the same.
is there a way to vet them to see if they are male and female?

[MatsP]

I'd say you have a mix of males and females.

I still don't believe your nitrate is ZERO.

--
Mats

[cichlidman16yearsold]

yeah i cant belive it ether buy i even went out and bought a new test kit. i tested my nitrate again and they where zero

[racoll]

You've got some cracking

Panaque changae

there, so I hope you get success in the end.

You also need to know the closely guarded secret to breeding all fish ...

In case you were wondering what this is, it is patience, and you'll need it by the bucket load if you want to breed these fish.

Few

Panaque

are bred, and it is probably a lack of patience as much as anything else that is stopping people.

In the meantime, get a spare tank and practise your fry rearing techniques on common

Ancistrus

. You'd hate to get a spawn from the Panaque and lose all the fry down to inexperience. It happens.

Rather than messing around with different permutations of parameters to trigger a spawn, concentrate on providing really clean water and fatten them up with a really wide variety of foods, such as veggies (sweet potato is good), bloodworm, shrimp and soft woods etc.

As Mats said, your water temperature is too cool. It needs to be around 28C, or more. This should increase their appetite too. Don't increase it all at once - do it over a week. Also make sure that the warmer water remains well oxygenated. You might need to get an extra air pump or water circulation pump (powerhead).

You didn't say how big the tank was, but if they are all cramped in small tank, this may stifle their breeding activities.

Post a pic of the tank, and we can help with improving the layout too.

I will change my substrate to sand. Any ideas on what kind and color?

Colour doesn't matter (avoid bright garish ones though). More importantly, the sand should be inert (not affect water chemistry). The stuff sold as river sand, silica sand or quartz is usually best. You only need a couple of centimetres.

Run the new external filter and the undergravel for at least month before changing substrates and removing the undergravel.

Hope this helps.

[cichlidman16yearsold]

my tank is a 55gal i have raise my tank temperature a little and will keep an do it thought the week.
the Panaque changae is the Tiger Pleco, or more of a Common Name L226

[racoll]

That gravel looks really dirty, as I suspected it might with these wood eaters and undergravel filtration.

You also really need a backing on the tank - plain black is best.

The fish will feel much more secure and less exposed with one of these.

[cichlidman16yearsold]

the tank is not dirty it is black sand. it came with the tank and the gravel. and i will put a backing on. do i put it on the sides to

[MatsP]

and i will put a backing on. do i put it on the sides to

For the fish, three sides [or even four!] is better. For you, depends on what you like. Of course, unless you PAINT the tank, it's usually pretty easy to alter whatever scheme you come up with. I've seen tanks that have half the sides covered too.

--
Mats

[cichlidman16yearsold]

ok cool any ideas on what color or scheme

[MatsP]

Black or dark blue is probably the best choices.

--
Mats

[cichlidman16yearsold]

ok thanks MastsP and thank you all for helping me find out more on my plecos. i will keep you updated and post new pic once i change my tank

[mr pleco]

its not that hard

[MatsP]

its not that hard

But I bet, like most people, you can't tell what the difference is between your setup that works, and some other person's that doesn't. Breeding plecos can be a bit of "magic" as well as the usual advice of clean water, good food, etc. [other than the common bristlenose and a few others that is "take a male and female, add water and wait a bit" - but even these we sometimes get "Why aren't mine breeding?" questions].

And knowing what those magic bits are, is the key to telling someone how to breed - and no, I don't know for most species either. But if a fish isn't breeding after a long time of trying to make them breed, you obviously need to change something....

--
Mats

[cichlidman16yearsold]

mr pleco how did you get your to breed can you post pic so i can see your set up please

[mr pleco]

couldnt agree with you more matsp and i was merely trying to encourage him by showing that they are not imposssible to breed sometimes a simple change in technique food or parameters can make all the difference so long as it is done with informed decisions and not rash behaviour
i will email him latter with my setup but it was very similiar to his so dont know how much it will help him

its not that hard

But I bet, like most people, you can't tell what the difference is between your setup that works, and some other person's that doesn't. Breeding plecos can be a bit of "magic" as well as the usual advice of clean water, good food, etc. [other than the common bristlenose and a few others that is "take a male and female, add water and wait a bit" - but even these we sometimes get "Why aren't mine breeding?" questions].

And knowing what those magic bits are, is the key to telling someone how to breed - and no, I don't know for most species either. But if a fish isn't breeding after a long time of trying to make them breed, you obviously need to change something....

--
Mats

[cichlidman16yearsold]

thank you every one for you help with my plecos. and thank you for taking the time to reply to my posting.

[cichlidman16yearsold]

UPDATE ON L226
i have change the under gravel to black sand and added two more Hydro-Sponge filters H-5. i have not gotten a chance to put a backing on the tank yet. and i dont have money yet to buy pain or a plastic background for out side the tank and the side. iam still looking for a good price on some pleco breeding caves to.

[MatsP]

You probably want to block off the end of the pipe somehow, to make a proper cave.


--
Mats