S. granulosa

[zipper]

I just picked up two granulosa. I tried to acquire more but that is all they had. I hope to get a few more, but in the mean time, could I get away with keeping them together i the same tank by using multipunctata or lucipinnis as targets? Would two granulosa and 6 to 8 multis/ lucipinnis work? The grannies are in separate tanks right now.

[Birger]

In this thread the same question was asked http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... =8&t=28657

Have a go at it and then come back with any further questions.

You probably know this already but be aware that there are hybrids out there being passed as S.granulosa...unless absolutely certain a picture may be a good idea.

Birger

[zipper]

Hi Birger,
I've read that post and every other concerning granulosa, and although the question was similar, there was really no direct answer given. My fish are two wild caught males. One 5 inches, the other 6. I toyed with the idea of putting them together in a 100 gallon tank (72"x18"x18") with lots of cover and a group of medium sized cichlids, but seeing how they were nipping each other in the acclimation tub, I decided not to (not yet anyway.)

So back to my question. I cant recall which post I read, but somewhere, someone said putting them in a large group kept the peace not unlike how many rift lake cichild keepers maintain their groups of fish. since It looks like I wont be getting any more granulosa anytime soon, could I crowd them (and spread the aggression out to managable levels) with a group of other rift lake synos? There are a lot of lucipinnis available to me but they are rather small. Seeing how Sidguppy kept a group of Phyllonemus typus with his grannies, perhaps this would work. Perhaps I should just do it and report back my successes or failures (hopefully the former)

[Birger]

Hi Birger,
I've read that post and every other concerning granulosa, and although the question was similar, there was really no direct answer given. My fish are two wild caught males. One 5 inches, the other 6. I toyed with the idea of putting them together in a 100 gallon tank (72"x18"x18") with lots of cover and a group of medium sized c*****ds, but seeing how they were nipping each other in the acclimation tub, I decided not to (not yet anyway.)

So back to my question. I cant recall which post I read, but somewhere, someone said putting them in a large group kept the peace not unlike how many rift lake cichild keepers maintain their groups of fish. since It looks like I wont be getting any more granulosa anytime soon, could I crowd them (and spread the aggression out to managable levels) with a group of other rift lake synos? There are a lot of lucipinnis available to me but they are rather small. Seeing how Sidguppy kept a group of Phyllonemus typus with his grannies, perhaps this would work. Perhaps I should just do it and report back my successes or failures (hopefully the former)

Keeping a group together generally works because there are many of one species, even with other species of synodontis in the tank there is still a good chance the stronger S.granulosa will target the weaker fish of its own kind. Two syno's together is not a good idea at the best of times but with these S. granulosa I would think it is trouble in the making...you may luck out though as it seems the females are the rowdier ones with these.

I do not think Sid kept P.typus with his grannies specifically as dither fish, I would think they would be generally ignored by the syno's,( hehe) as a matter of fact each of these species would be busy keeping an eye on their own kind.

Birger

[Richard B]

If you want to keep the grannys together with minimal problems i would suggest keeping them crowded in a mixed tang syno set-up.

To elaborate, you need a mix of accompanying species, like multis, petricola, polli etc so that a pecking order can be established & any aggression can be filtered & spread. I would suggest that 6-8 multis on their own wouldn't do the job

[toby]

Zipper,
Thought I would add my 2 cents - not on housing the grannies together but overall keeping with other synos. I am relatively new in developing my expereince with lake synos but can share the following observations. I have 4 grannies - 2M2F - but to date haven't had the confidence (_alls) to group any of them together yet - I have had them probably around 6-8 months or so and they are all around 6-7". They are all kept in 125 and 150 sized tanks in mixed syno scenarios. One tank has 6 petricola (adult), 3 polli (adult), 2 dhonti (supposed dhonti) and a granny. Lots of caves and cover with relative peace in the tank. Another tank has 6 multi, 3 polli, 1 dhonti and a granny with some growout benthochromis tricoti and cyps in with them - again in this tank, no issues - lots of hiding places, caves, etc. I have one large, hollow resin rock in this tank, probably around 14" long, 6" wide by 4" high with several access holes. The granny is usually in there, but several others also house in there with it and it hasn't seemed to cause any issues. For caves, I have been happy using Exoterra (Hagen) reptile caves (tank safe), which come in several sizes and can easily be placed in between/underneath rocks and are very strong and supportive, as they are a very tough thick resin like 3/8" thick. I have a third tank, with one granny and 5 syno tanganyicae (supposed tanganyicae) and of course there are no issues here as the tanganyicae are only about 3-4", half the size of the granny. I at one time had a group of cyps in there, with a a couple of females spitting in the tank. At that time, the granny was the only syno in there. I wasn't too concerned about the fry - and I think the granny knew that. Over 2 nights, 18 fry were snacked upon. The granny was well fed with a variety of pellets, worms, etc but still found the fry irresistible. My last granny sits alone in a 75, waiting for me to redo a 225, which is when I will try a pair together?, or the 4 together?, not sure, with as Richard points out, a group pf several other synos to spread out any aggression - and I'll observe - closely.

[zipper]

thanks all for the comments. I'll proceed with caution from here on out. Hopefully, I'll be able to source more grannies, and in the mean time, I'll start building a colony of riftlake synos.

[sidguppy]

about the furniture; make sure you have PLENTY!

loads of caves; build them big and of the "swim through" kind

imagine a high speed chase and the fish must be able to break 'line of sight' on each other

if one can corner the other; you'll get the nasty process of dismantling right there; the most agressive one (not necessarily the biggest) will shred the other one to pieces

even in groups they can and do turn on each other wich happened when my group had to stay at Bas' place when i was moving house.
they did rip off each others' skin and if Bas hadn't separated them i would have ended up with a single fish (!)

the large female's adipose will never be the natural shape again; it's more like the dorsal ridge of a Spermwhale today.

the others have healed completely, wich is short of a miracle as there were complete fins missing
one even had the entire tail scrapped off.....right to the peduncle.
it has healed completely

the amount of damage these can do on each other when things go wrong is mindboggling

do NOT underestimate this species.

it's gorgeous, but very very agressive when push comes to shove

on the other hand; I've kept 4 adults in a 130g tank before and they spawned.......

[zipper]

hoped you would chime in Sidguppy. Your musings about these cats that are scattered over the web are filled with info and I've gleaned them many times over. Wanted to ask you about the Phyllonemus you kept with them... were they ignored by the grannies, or did they serve as dither or targets at all? How about the Malagasy Cichlids you are keeping with them now?

[Richard B]

hoped you would chime in Sidguppy. Your musings about these cats that are scattered over the web are filled with info and I've gleaned them many times over. Wanted to ask you about the Phyllonemus you kept with them... were they ignored by the grannies, or did they serve as dither or targets at all? How about the Malagasy Cichlids you are keeping with them now?

I'm pretty certain Sid keeps the typus as they are a super fish to own. They would not perform a dither function & no-way would Sid offer them up as a target fish

Target fish need to be tough & speedy.

Dither fish need to be upper/midwater shoaling species

[zipper]

I'm not implying that he served them up as punching bags or anything, just wondering if their presence in the tank affected their behavior in any way.

btw, I've successfully used a large shoal of cories as dither for shy loricariids


On another note, I suspect one of them has gill flukes or some sort of parasite. The fish breathes rapidly, and is on the thin side. He is eating, but his appetite isnt that great. At first I chalked it up to acclimating to his new home, but its been a week and the other one has already settled in nicely. I'm not too familiar with treating African cats (They normally come in "clean") any suggestions on treatment?

[sidguppy]

I don't have the typus anymore

Synodontis doesn't bother Phyllonemus, at least not that I've seen; but it DOES compete for food and usually wins, especially big Syno's.

with 9 Syno's in the tank; 4 granny's and 5 njassae's, and the malagasy's all growing rapidly the Phyllonemus began to suffer a bit for the food.

I rehoused them in another tank, but then needed the other tank as a grow-out tank for small juvenile Lamena's.

i traded them to someone who got a large Tanganyikan tank with few catfishes.

granny's are incredibe tough; but the one thing that can finish them off (apart from speciesmembers) is chemical poisoning and yes, this includes medications.

the one granny that succumbed here was damaged severely by heavy duty medics when my tank suffered twice from sebveral resistant strains of germs that I had to nuke

they really cannot cope with any meds that contain copper and a whole list of other stuff as well.

this is one of those species that's more likely to be killed by a cure than by a disease.

on the other hand; fluke- and worminfections can damage them.
but usually they react to something in the water.

you can treat it with a wormkiller, but I have no idea about wich brands are the good ones on your side of the pond. I'm not familiar

[Richard B]

I'm not implying that he served them up as punching bags or anything, just wondering if their presence in the tank affected their behavior in any way.

btw, I've successfully used a large shoal of cories as dither for shy loricariids

On another note, I suspect one of them has gill flukes or some sort of parasite. The fish breathes rapidly, and is on the thin side. He is eating, but his appetite isnt that great. At first I chalked it up to acclimating to his new home, but its been a week and the other one has already settled in nicely. I'm not too familiar with treating African cats (They normally come in "clean") any suggestions on treatment?

Yes - i understand what you were aiming at. I just emphasised what the typical qualities of dithers & targets are for anyone reading the thread & not understanding. I often forget that there are dozens of people readingthreads but not actively posting & we need to be mindful to give people the info they might need (without spoon feeding them - they gotta be able to look up the info if it is available somewhere on the site)

Grannys are a rough & robust species & in captivity generally dominate in a tank containing species they would encounter in the wild. That dominance is only really threatened by other Grannys. In the wild i can't think of much that would bother an adult - crocodiles, obviously, but even predatory birds shouldn't be a hazard as the Grannys come from deep water.

They are not good with meds as Sid has said, so tread carefully.

If the one is still thin, & in a tank where there is little competition for food, id recommend a feeding regime over a few weeks with tetra delica, chopped earthworms,finely chopped mussel & prawn paste (whole cooked prawns in the shell put in a high speed blender to produce a paste). The Prawn & chopped mussel can be frozen in blocks for convenience. This food has quickly got poor condition fish to add body bulk (lake synos), however if there are complications like parasites this also needs to be addressed.

[zipper]

Great stuff guys! Thanks a lot for all the help. I'll try some of my milder remedies on the fish and see how he does.

[zipper]

Today I picked up two more grannies! The thing is that they are tiny, about 2.5 inches. They look right (nice black and white fins, and juvenile spots over the body) and the guy at the shop assured me that they were wild caught. Have any of you seen grannies come in that small? I left two at the store and I am tempted to grab them as well.

I'll try to get some pictures up soon.

[Richard B]

Today I picked up two more grannies! The thing is that they are tiny, about 2.5 inches. They look right (nice black and white fins, and juvenile spots over the body) and the guy at the shop assured me that they were wild caught. Have any of you seen grannies come in that small? I left two at the store and I am tempted to grab them as well.

I'll try to get some pictures up soon.

see my avatar!!!!! The coin diameter is 20mm

I've not seen wild Grannys less than 4" but NHA who have bred them in the UK have supplied fish at 40mm & having been to their breeding room i've seen them at maybe 15mm size growing out. Even the youngest ones can be seen to be turning into Grannys although they are not quite miniature adults they are pretty close. These fish are difficult to catch in the wild being deepwater solitary fish that are not common in the lake (?) so it stands to reason that larger are easier to catch given their habitat.

I have seen hybrids in the UK that are remarkably close to the real thing so pics from "over there"would be VERY interesting.

Were these expensive or did they seem 'reasonable' - true Grannys are, unfortunately, seldom if ever reasonable money IME - if it seems a bargain too good to be true, if often isn't all it seems.....

[zipper]

Hey Richard, I did see your avatar. The new ones I have look like your pic, they weren't cheap either. The LFS I got them from has gotten larger grannies from the same supplier in the past so that's a good thing. They also got in a bunch of hybrids that were labelled as such so that could be good and bad depending on the way you look at it.

A few years back, Atlantis Tropical had some small wild caught granulosas. I remember reading a post on another forum, but I cannot seem to find it again... Any Americans out there remember this, or actually picked up some of these little ones?