Sturisoma had babies

[summer]

you may remember i posted a pic of my deformed whiptail?

well I thought it was female (quite big but no bristles) so I bought a male with bristles and gave them their own breeding tank (80lit).

after several weeks no sign of eggs so I bought another female (in case the deformed one was not fertile)

within days of adding the female, the deformed one grew bristles! so now I have 2 males and a female.

a week later the new male was guarding 10 eggs - yay - only 3 eggs made it but only 2 fry survived, which are now in a breeding trap (easier to feed).

unfortunately the heater failed overnight just before we had eggs and now the female has what appears to be whitespot.

not sure how to treat this with fry so I have raised the temperature to 26 degrees for a few weeks, and I have ordered some Kordon's ich-attack.

so far we are feeding the babies normal tropical fish fry food (just in case) and chinese cabbage. I also drop a small bit of crushed wafer in. I plan to obtain some spirulina powder too (you can get this from health food shops).

They are a week old and have absorbed the egg sac, they look as though they are 'cleaning' the tanksides, but not sure if there's any algae there for them.

we are going to try and put a sliver of bogwood in the fry tank too, again - just in case...

dad and his eggs





4 day old eggs




fry (sorry about the quality)

[summer]

and today we have 20 new eggs! ooer

[apistomaster]

I breed my Sturisoma at 28 to 30*C.
I consider them warm water fish.
At 30*C their eggs hatch on the 8th day.
I am not surprised Ich hit at the cooler temperatures you are keeping your Sturisoma in.
There is an article i wrote under "Shane's World" which describes how I raise Sturisoma.
Don't start counting your "chickens' until they are at least 7 cm long. Many don't make it that far yet few die during the first few weeks either. But there will be considerable attrition in between although if you are willing to cater to the needs of the fry the loss rates may be greatly reduced.

[summer]

hi yes I read your article, that's when I found out they are omnivore. The tank is at 28 now and I might go higher if the ich doesn't go. I am doing a 3/4 dose of protozin just to see if the eggs/fry can tolerate it. They are wonderful fish. The fry are 11 days old now and they are eating well (so far algae wafer, courgette skin, spirulina and brine shrimp). I realise they are very hard to raise past the 2 week mark, but I am trying my best.

so if I need any advice I will call on you

[apistomaster]

Sure, Summer. I am actually at that point where I need to breed mine before they get to old and I dread having to put so much work into them because the wild fish are so cheap here that I can't raise and sell mine at a price that covers the cost of the effort. OTOH, having my own home grown supply of Sturisoma is always nice despite the conflict between them and my Discus. I really wish I could be safe mixing them but only sometimes does it work. Most of the time the Sturisoma begin to suck off the sides of my Discus but I have a few which live alone with pairs of wild Discus in complete peace.

[Bas Pels]

My Sturiosoma are in an unheated tank, which has an internal filter with a large pump. The pumps energy heats the water for free - at approx 26 C

Although I never took the trouble to note the duratrion to hatching, the male is almost always tending eggs. He has 2 females, which take turns in keeping him occupied

Normally the fry dies soon, I think the day of their birth - by predation or sarvation. But now I got 1 @ 3 cm, I guess. It is as orange-brown as its parants. I hope he will make it, he will need a few cm te be out of the woods

[apistomaster]

I think most of your Sturisoma will do better if kept warmer as I stated in my previous post.

[summer]

I have mine at 28 and I'm going to take them slowly upto 30. The 2nd batch of eggs have hatched after only 6 days, unless the eggs had been there longer than we thought.

we didn't capture these eggs as they were in an awkward spot, so far I've seen 7 fry. when they hatch they get flung quite a way from the hatching spot, like a spring, so they are evrywhere. One is on the heater so I might have to rescue him with a syphon tube.

be interesting to see how well these do in the main tank as opposed to the breeding trap

the ones from the first batch are 3 times the size they were 11 days ago!

[apistomaster]

Sturisoma fry grow quickly in their first month but then slow down until they reach a couple inches. Then they begin to grow fast again. I thought it would take forever for my first fry to grow up but I actually had my first spawn occur when they were about 10 months old. This surprised me because I was used to the much longer time it takes most plecos to reach breeding age. Sturisoma don't live as long as most plecos so it seems Nature always balances the scales one way or another.

[summer]

quick update - we have around 21 fry now, all in the main tank, all eating well - algae, bean, pellets. I am quite hopeful

and the ich seems to be gone

[summer]

latest update - the 2 original fry are 18 days old and about 3cm long, getting their whips too

of the next batch we had around 20 but now I only see about 14 but it's hard to tell as they swim about so quickly

the current egg clutch is only 13 now

all the fry are active foragers and eat whatever is put into the tank

potato peel, tomato, courgette, green beans, jbl pellets, algae wafer, and of course tank/plant/bogwood algae

all the fry reports I've read have said they're lazy eaters - well, mine aren't

[summer]

one of the first (can't see him very well but the bubbles look good!

[summer]

this is a bit better

[summer]

I Like this one - batch 2, 16 hours old

[summer]

last one for now, 2nd batch, 11 days old enjoying some potato

[Bas Pels]

They are cute, just as mine @ 4 cm. I got 2, with their parents. As I understood they are much more resilient when over 5 cm, I'll have to wait a while, before I can give them their own tank - and do a little more maintenance

[summer]

the 3rd batch of eggs hatched on Friday 14th and towards the end there were only 11 eggs. I have managed to count 8 new babaies so far. Latest problem tho - I added more assassin snails, and some cherry shrimp, but they seem to have brought planaria with them, either that or I have baby shrimp (one shrimp had eggs on her legs). The tiny white creatures on my tank sides are so small I can't see if I have worms or babies lol, and of course the shrimps are hiding so I can't see if the eggs have hatched.

as for planaria - it will be difficult to rid the tank of these as I don't like to vacuum the gravel too vigourously in case I disturb the fry, and I need to leave food in there 24/7 again for the fry (only vegetables tho).

I think my only option would be to put the fish in a holding tank (gawd - all those fry to catch, not to mention shrimps and snails) and give the gravel and decor and filters a really good clean. Or increase the temp. to 40 deg c for a few hours.

any other suggestions?

[MatsP]

I would suggest that you find a way to get rid of leftover food. I doubt the planaria came with the snails/shrimp - it's probably that you had enough food for the planaria to form - they are often present in tanks in small numbers anyways, it only becomes a problem with leftover food in abundance which causes them to "explode" in population numbers.

Planaria isn't a parasite, so it's harmless to the fish unless they are in really huge numbers - but it is a sign that there is oversupply of food.

--
Mats

[summer]

you'd have to define 'leftover food' Mats [not as daft as it sounds....]

the fry are constant foragers and of course they are too small to eat much, so I might leave courgette in for a day and renew it at feeding time, so it's fresh food every day, but there's always food in the tank.

the only alternative would be to feed at night and clear it all up in the morning - leaving the fry with no food all day

I think planaria are meat eaters and as I don't feed meat to the fish the planaria should die off, however they might pose a risk to the shrimps and sturisoma eggs.

but then again, they might turn out to be shrimp fry...

[MatsP]

Right, so you are not feeding any algae wafers, tetra bits, tabimin, JBL novo tabs, or anything like that in this tank? That would be your "meat" if you do. Or perhaps they are vegetarian small worms similar to planaria.???

Leftover food is anything that isn't "immedately eaten". Obviously, the longer it stays in the tank, the more it's "leftover".

I know, these fish do need constant food supply, so it's a difficult balance. I don't think feeding overnight is the right solution.

--
Mats

[summer]

hi Mats

well I don't use algae wafer right now as the snails devour them before the fish get a chance to even notice them, but I have been putting jbl pellets on the glass, hmmmm, source of protein... apart from that I just feed vegetables, no flake as it's sturisoma only tank (now with shrimp).

I read that neon tetra will eat these worms, but as they're not free swimming, I'm not sure.

They are less than 1mm long and move very quickly across the glass, the move by sliding (contracting) a bit like a snail.

pretty sure they are planaria (as opposed to detritus worms)

here's a pic

[summer]

I put my neons in this tank, and I think they've eaten the shrimp, but also - no planaria - so a result of sorts. I guess I'll keep away from shrimp if they're bringing planaria. (they were 20p each so not too worried...)

[apistomaster]

There really are no fish which will eat Planaria if given any other choice. I think the shrimp alone would have gone a long ways towards keeping the tank cleaner and less supportive of Planarians. Rethink your strategies.

[summer]

yes sir! lol

well the worms have gone, I still have shrimp and the neons are back in their own tank. So as Shakespeare said, all's well that ends well

[apistomaster]

Sounds good.
FYI, I am one who finds Sturisoma fry actively seek out food and quickly congregate around the source. I also believe that during their initial 3 or so months they will have much higher survival rates in fairly shallow water. I begin with water only about 6 inches deep and by 3 months not more than 10 inches. I explain all my rationale behind this in the article I wrote which appears on this site's "Shane's world". Raising Sturisoma fry is a labor intensive procedure, at least by my reckoning, but I strive to raise as many of my fry as possible rather than the few strongest specimens. I do not raise them routinely because they are so labor intensive and here in the USA one can buy adult breeding sized fish cheaper than what it actually costs me to raise them to a salable size. I have sold and traded many of those I have raised to breeding size but I have been reluctant to tackle raising more because the return on investment is so poor.
Breeding and raising the species of plecos I do is so much easier and the margin for error is wide and forgiving compared to Sturisoma fry.
For those who have not had the same experience I suspect the choice of the first foods is why your fry were disinterested. I consider Sturisoma to be primarily aquatic larvae insectivores and although they also eat a lot of algae I believe that is incidental to their search for suitable prey which live on and in algae growth in the wild. In their natural habitat, aquatic insect larvae are always available at every size from unhatched eggs to newly hatched nymphs upon which the juvenile Sturisoma primarily feed. The larger specimens eat the larger larvae/nymphs.
I think any aquarium breeding and raising attempt should focus on Sturisoma spp. primarily carnivorous nature. The algae they consume is no doubt important to providing them an overall balanced diet but Sturisoma fed mainly on carnivorous diets tend to produce larger numbers of eggs and faster growing fry. I found that earth worm sticks made a very good staple food for both fry and adults. Their algae needs are easily met by a few feedings per week of Spirulina Stick foods. I find the stick foods lend themselves better to feeding Sturisoma fry and adults than the hard, longer lasting tabs. These fish prefer to suck in rather than scrape most of their foods as opposed to the plecos. The stick foods become mushy rather quickly after they have been placed in an aquarium.
Sturisoma are extremely fond of live foods; black worms, for example. Frozen blood worms are also another very good food for fish large enough to eat them.
I think they use their sucker mouths to hold on tight in fast water more than they use them as scrapers.

[Scleropages]

Summer, good work on the broods. Larry, good info. Sturisoma are probably my favorite "non-pleco" type of loricarid. Unfortunately, these days, I don't see them much in local LFS's or importers.

[apistomaster]

I have seen adult Sturisoma being sold on aquabid.com for as little as $12 each.
Hard to raise them commercially useful quantities and compete for sales when wild adults may be had for such a low price.
Their fry are much more work to raise than plecos and it takes at least 6 to 8 months to raise Sturisoma to a salable size of 3 to 4 inches. Despite the initial difficulties and slow growth, I have had Sturisoma begin spawning as young as 10 months which is much earlier than most of the more expensive plecos which may take 2 or 3 years before they begin spawning, Only the common and thoroughly domesticated normal fin types of Bushy Nose Plecos can begin breeding at a similarly young age. Once Sturisoma reach 6 months old then they undergo a rapid growth stage again. They can reach full adult size in as little as 15 months.

[summer]

our adults won't eat live or frozen food but they love jbl pellets. So far the fry like to graze on veg that I put in.

In the UK these fish are around £30 each.

I agree with Larry (?) that they suck food rather than rasp, and they don't seem to rasp bogwood either.

I will be honestly pleased if only one fry survives, and every new batch of eggs is a new learning experience.

[MatsP]

In the UK these fish are around £30 each.

I paid about £10 for mine - I can't remember if it was 8.95 or 9.95 - they weren't fully grown, but "large juveniles".

And I can't sell mine to the LFS - they didn't sell quickly enough last time, so no go.

--
Mats

[apistomaster]

Hi Mats,

That price seems reasonable to me. How much difference is there between the prices of Sturisoma and Farlowella?
Despite my contention that Sturisoma have a carnivorous bent I still use them as an algae eater in my tanks which don't contain any Discus. They perform their assigned task well, much better than the more specialized algae eating Farlowella and they are arguably a more interesting fish in terms of looks and activity. I consider Sturisoma to be one of those rare Loricaridids which are primarily diurnal instead of nocturnal. That makes them more prominent in an aquarium than some Bushy nose which prefers to come out at night.
I think it is largely a matter of conditioning when it comes to which foods they may prefer in an aquarium. I would not have nearly as high of a survival rate among my fry if they did not receive mostly earth worm sticks. It is the only food I offer them during the first several months with the exception of an occasional feeding of Spirulina sticks but even those contain plenty of fish and shrimp meal. They may take some time and patience to get them interested in frozen blood worms and live worms unless they are wild or have always had access to meatier foods. They digest foods rapidly which is something I associate with fish that evolved to eat high protein foods. Their fry need almost constant access to food or it is easy to starve them beyond a point of no return. Initially I had a lot of problems with getting the majority of the fry to survive and it took me considerable trial and error before i hit upon a system that brought most of them to survive. No matter how you cut it, Sturisoma fry are more difficult to raise than pleco fry.
Here is a photo of a pair of my F1 Sturisoma aureum devouring live black worms with gusto.