Otocinclus Breeding

[James0816]

Checked in on the fry tank and was able to find all (5) little fry guys. Very promising out of the gate. <knock on wood>. Prepping some more food for them as I type. Will introduce a small slice of zucchini at day 5.

Over in the main tank, not as much success there unfortunately. Didn't find too many of the new hatchlings. All the bigger fry guys are still doing their thing.

Water tests pending on both tanks.

[James0816]

Doing 10% water changes today in the main and fry tanks. While removing the water from the fry tank, figured I would see if I can find all the wee ones. Big surprise...I counted (7) in there! Very pleasant surprise I must say. A few of them are growing pretty big for their age. The others are staying within average. Prepping more food for them.

Over in the main tank, uprooted the Bacopa and Ludwigia areas to do a quick vac of those areas. Will be gone over the weekend starting Thursday so need to make sure the water quality is pretty good. Trimmed up the Bacopa and replanted. Running the air stone for a few minutes while things settle. Both adults and fry are very active at the moment.

Will be working on the holding tank tomorrow.

[James0816]

Well...I did a bad...not just a bad but a double bad...and it cost me.

Yesterday's water change. I broke from my usual routine (wasn't thinking). Normally, I would pull out (1) gallon of water from the main tank, take that water and use for the water change in the fry tank. Well...yesterday, I used fresh water on the fry tank.

To make things worse, I wound up doing a 20% water change on the fry tank instead of 10%. Forgot that it is a five gallon tank and need to only pull out 1/2 gallon.

Found the bad news today. Only found (2) fry today. Man am I so upset with myself.

On a better note, I found a so much better way to control the water flow going back into the tank. Instead of tying a knot it the tube and adjusting accordingly, I found an old two-way air manifold that I was using. Hooked it up to the tube and easily adjust the rate to two drops per second. So much easier.

[James0816]

Last update until Monday. Heading out of town for a few days. Crossing fingers that fry will manage with a sitter. ;)

Over in the fry tank, I found both remaining fry in this tank. They are pretty active at the moment. I placed a small piece of zucchini in there yesterday. Will remove it tomorrow before leaving and have another small piece added on Friday.

In the main, all still doing well. Fry guys zipping all over the place in there. Adding another 3/4g fresh water to last through the weekend. I'm anticipating mama to lay eggs at any point. I might even get lucky and she might still lay some tonight for me to move over to the fry tank before leaving.

That's it for now. We'll see everyone back here on Monday.

[dw1305]

Hi all
First of all, I start with the disclaimer that James has been a much more successful Otocinclus breeder than I was, as mine bred without any intervention and I only found out they had when the surviving fry were sub-adult, but I think the James' first quote is the really important one:

I am down to (2) fry in the main tank . Decided to a major scaping yesterday. Had to thin the crypt jungle again. This time I removed the mother plants of the Wendtii and Retrospiralis. Also removed 4 of the larger Retros and 2 Wendtii's. Did 30% water change while doing a good vac of the substrate.

and also Larry (Apistomasters) quote:

The main point is that the shrimp do not harm the eggs, larvae or fry and if enough plants are provided(I use Tropical Hornwort, Ceratophyllum demersum) the fish will lay their eggs among it's needles and the larvae forage over the large surface area the Hornwort provide so they get plenty of diatoms, algae and the various critters collectively called aufwichs by German aquarists..... I think you are doing a good job with them.

I think the remaining problem is that you are doing too much intervention and keeping the tank too clean, by this I'm not suggesting that you should stop changing the water (in fact I change 10% a day in all the tanks) and removing all dead OM, but I would suggest you stop gardening and gravel cleaning. I think a shallow, weedy tank with increased amount of biofilm or Aufwuchs will improve fry survival, it is the technique I use for all my more tricky fry, and I've used it successfully for Dwarf Cories, Apistogramma, Killies and recently Threadfin Rainbows.
I'll post a link to Biofilm by "The Skeptical Aquarist", as he is a much more readable author than I am.
http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/b ... vbio.shtml

cheers Darrel

[James0816]

Well, finally got down and looked at the tanks. Very dissapointed in the sitter. It is bad. All the tanks were overfed. Absolutely horrible! Where to start:

1) Fry tank. I did not find the two little fry guys when I turned on the light today. I'll check again shortly.
2) Main breeder. Green bottom and some food fuzzing over. Didn't immediately find any casulties in here. Didn't find any of the existing fry but I didn't look very hard at the moment. And...as expected....tons of new fry all over this tank. Puts me in a major quandry of what to do with this tank. I can't adequately remove all this excess food without adversly affecting the fry. I'll do a water test and see about my ammonia level. I have a feeling that I am going to have to sacrifice this brood to get the water quality back. I will pull out 1/2 gallon and fill in with a full gallon. I might be able to syphon some of this out but will have to gravel vac.
3) O. Macrospilus breeder w/ CRS/CBS shrimp. This tank was by far the worst. Almost the entire bottom of the tank was green from all of the food that was at the bottom. Several, several dead shrimp. No adults but all babies. :censored: :censored: . Still have alot of shrimp in there but I sure did loose a lot. So not happy! I immediately started a 10% water change sucking out as many of the dead and most of the food as I could. I will have to do a gravel vac tomorrow to repair the rest of the damage.

Other tanks overfed as well, but not as near the damage.

[James0816]

So I went back to check on the tanks. Nothing at all in the fry tank. Test 1 is now officially closed due to human error. 50% water change scheduled for tomorrow.

I turned on the light for the main tank to better assess the situation. I was really surprised at what I found. I did find all (8) of the older fry and man have they grown. This is the critical week for them. If they make it to Wednesday, their odds increase to nearly 100%. As for the new fry...all I can say is WOW. The tank is absolutely teaming with new wigglers. I have decided to leave the tank as is...for now. There will be no feeding of the tank but will monitor the NH3 very closely.

[James0816]

Main Tank: Fry guys swimming all over the place from just a few days old to three weeks old. Chomping at the bit to do a water change but don't want to mess with anything at this time. Topped off with 1g fresh water.

Fry Tank: 50% water change and ready to go for next round.

Holding Tank: Delayed water change as I was running out of time. Topped off tank with 2.5g fresh water. Annnnnnd....found lots of eggs in here. Not sure but they look like they will be hatching any time now. If not for that, I would move some over.

Here's a couple shots from today: These guys are approaching the three week mark.




And here's a nice group shot. Papa on the left, mama in the middle and another female to the right. Look closely to right of papa oto...you'll find a wee one there. That little guy is just a couple days old.


That makes two males and two females in the main tank.

[2wheelsx2]

Wow, those females are huge....

[James0816]

Quick update as I have a bit to do before the hockey game tonight. Rock the Red!

Holding Tank: Checked this on first since I knew there were eggs that were going to be hatching today. Readily found (6) freshly hatched wigglers. Too much a jungle to see if any others are about. Especially if any are laid in the huge Java Fern. I would never know.

Main Tank: No eggs spotted but decided to see how many fry guys I could count. So ranging from a few days old to my magic three week mark, I counted upwards of (50) in here. <knocks on wood>. Still holding off on any water changes on the tank at this time. The older fry are really working on the excess food that is sitting at the bottom which is why I'm leaving it.

I will do water tests today in leiu of any regular maintence.

Blanching some fresh zucchini as I type. Will add some fresh slices to the tanks later even though there is an abundance of food already in them.

[James0816]

After quite a bit of searching and finding a decent price...I am finally, finally acquiring some O. Cocama. I just ordered (5) of the little guys. Shipping is the kicker but had to do it as couldn't find any one anywhere close to get them. Should be here on Friday. Going through the final prep of their future tank.

I did a last minute audible and chose the 10g with the Flourite substrate over the SMS. It's been aging a lot longer. And since the guys in the holding tank are breeding with the sand substrate, I don't think this will be much an issue. However, if I locate my O. Flexilis, then I will do the tank switcharoo.

[Mike_Noren]

I am finally, finally acquiring some O. Cocama.
--- if I locate my O. Flexilis, then I will do the tank switcharoo.

It will be very interesting to hear how you do with those.

The small species like vittatus and macrospilus occasionally spawn in captivity, but to the best of my knowledge O. flexilis has been bred only once, and O. cocama never. I don't think they're necessarily a lot harder to get to breed, I suspect there's fewer breeding reports because there are far fewer people keeping these larger species.

[James0816]

That's the goal of the project. Time has come to put it to test. Mind you I'm entering with very low expections due to the captivity portion. But, I do have some bit of confidence in seeing how rapidly the Vittatus are breeding. Gives me a glimmer and that's all need to get off the ground.

[James0816]

All looks well today:

Main Tank: Activity and fry visibility remains high. I will have to do a wc tomorrow. Just not liking the condition. The wee ones have discovered the zucchini and life is good...or at least they are acting like it is. ;o)

Holding Tank: Counted (13) wigglers on the glass today. No maintenance scheduled at this time.

New tank will be referred as the Cocama tank. Which as I just learned will not arrive tomorrow as planned. Vendor states that post office said delivery would be two days and not over night. They only included a single 24hr heat pack. So now it will be sometime next week. This will however, allow me to do a little more scaping. I have crypts thinned and sorted. Will be adding/rescaping more tomorrow. Will put up final specs of the tank once complete.

[James0816]

Getting ready to head out to the race. Quick morning check of things and all looks well.

Over in the main tank, the fry are growing very nicely and still remain extremely active. Keeping fingers crossed that this batch will yield quite a few.

Was able to find a few wigglers in the holding tank. Saw a couple of them already hitting the zucchini.

Making another different swing in the O. Cocama tank. This may not be permanent but will aid in the introduction of them to thier new home. I found a piece of Maylasian driftwood that I wasn't using. Bigger than I want but will comfortably fit in the 10g. I will also be adding a piece of slate. With these and the placement of the crypts, this will provide nice spots for them. There is no pattern for the flora so it will be mismatched at this time as well.

Will be adding them tomorrow and adjusting the flora. Will be all set and get my initial readings and other info posted.

[James0816]

Kind of a slow start today. Just now getting around to working on the tanks. Go downstairs and the first thing I wanted to check on were the fry in the holding tank. Seeing some of the adults swimming around, thinking nothing of it. Spot a couple fry. Things are doing pretty well. Then a female comes swimming up from behind the java fern and has (4) males tagging along. She stop on a dwarf sag and the males pounce! It was just amazing to watch this. The guys were all over her. A spawn was occuring right in front of me. Didn't have the camera at the moment and didn't want to make any sudden moves to distract them.

So there I sat in front of the tank for a good 20 minutes watching all this activity all over the place. Saw where she had laid a few eggs on a java fernlet (this one will be moved to the fry tank). Found more eggs on the sags. I then decided that I needed the camera. Got the camera and came back down and the spawn was still going on. They would do their thing and then take a small break and back at it. Was able to snap some shots and video. Going through them now to see how well they turned out.

Shot a couple videos over in the main tank as well. Stand by while I check them out.

[James0816]

Ok...first off...I'm not a peeping tom...I'm scientist. The video you are about to see is in the name of research. ;o)

Luckily it's not too good. This is best one of the spawn. I may upload another one but again, not a good as this one. You'll see the poor little gal literally being hounded by the four males.

[James0816]

Quick update while I fire up the grill.

Doing a 10% water change in the main tank at the moment. Still using the drip method to add the new water. Seem to be getting good results here lately doing it this way. Either that or I'm getting lucky. Fry count and activity remains high. I'm not sure how many eggs were laid while I was gone but I can say that at just over a week, there still remains quite a few in here. It's interesting as you can see the difference in the age groups from 1 to 4 weeks. Only frags of zuc remain. Preping new as well as the new food diet/routine that I do now. This will be the first feeding since returning. Tells you how much gunk was in there. Surprisingly though...the water parms remained consistant. Didn't fluctuate at all. Guess the plants enjoyed it.

Over in the holding tank, I was able to find a few more eggs laid after yesterday. Also counted (6) fry in this tank. Moved over (3) eggs to the hatching/fry tank.

Which now brings us to the fry tank. I'm not sure I will officially call this a test as the egg count is only (3). With such a low number, won't really have much to compare. With that said....pH is sitting nicely at 6.2. One minor adjustment I made to this tank was to add a very small amount of crushed coral. This is how I will regulate the pH. I've started out with a very thin layer at the bottom of a milk jug lid. I'll continue to test daily over the next week to see if I need to adjust it down any. The target of this tank is no more than 6.6.

Confirmed with vendor today that the O. Cocama will ship tomorrow for Thursday arrival.

[James0816]

One more video to get you through the night.

Here's one that shows the wee one snarfing a zucchini.

[James0816]

Quick update on the hatching today. Let's see if I can start simplifying this a bit.

Main: Added 1g of fresh water. Still visibly counted over (50) fry guys in here. Being very careful of what goes on in here as this is the highest brood to date. A piece of zucchini has floated to the top and I had to rescue (4) fry from the top. Otherwise, they would have been trapped as they were on the topside of it.

Holding: (need a better name for this tank) Maybe I'll hold a contest. ;o) Found a few of the new hatchlings and a few of the older fry. Will be going on a pond snail raid soon.

Fry Tank: Of the (3) eggs moved over, I found (2) wigglers today.

OC: Final preps to the tank will be completed tomorrow. Tried to get confirmation from the vendor that they actually shipped today. Haven't heard back as yet.

[James0816]

Kind of quiet the past few days. Nothing much going on. 10% water changes in the Vittatus and Cocama tanks. No new eggs, but mama Oto showing very nicely.

The Cocama's are still progressing and getting more comfortable with their home.

20% water change in the holding tank. Went on a pond snail raid as well. Thinned the herd quite a bit.

Still have (2) fry over in the fry tank. That's still promising considering that there were only (3) eggs moved over that latest round.

Renewing the CO2 bottles on all the tanks. (2) of them were completely spent. The others are still producing but won't last much longer as the jell-o is almost gone. Using the rice seems to have produced much better results.

Fresh zucchini added to all tanks.

[mangopleco]

good job.... what was the temp and ph of ur tank??? and how did u intoduce spawning because i just got 2 zebra otto's male and female i think.

[James0816]

I keep the temp right around 78 and pH at 7.4. I don't do anything to induce the spawn. I let it all happen naturally.

I just picked up a few Cocama's myself. Still ify on the ID but looks like (1) male to (3) females. I should have a positive ID within the week.

[James0816]

Water changes in all tanks today. Fresh zucchini added and a couple tanks I'm trying sweet potato in to see what they think.

Over in the main tank, I tried a new powdered based food. I'd have to say it got pretty good results wouldn't you:


The Cocama's are doing really well. Being very active and eating nicely.

Continuing with my snail raids as I go.

[James0816]

Came home today and found the Cocama tank cloudy. Interesting. Not sure if it was/is the sweet potato or not. The other tanks with the sweet potato though aren't cloudy. Hmmmm......I originally took it out but then I put it back in for now. I'm finding that it disentigrates easily. May not use it much after seeing this.

20% water change. Found the filter was pretty well clogged up too. Had to do a cleaning on it as well....brush out the tubes and squeeze out the sponge. I went ahead and started working on the scape a bit early.

Going to be pulling out alot of plants from some tanks. Just have way too many C. Wendtii and Pontederiifolia.

[James0816]

I started doing major rescaping. I'm starting with the holding tank. Pulled out several crypts, small sags and others. Still will be difficult to work with as I will be keeping the huge java fern in there. So I'll work around that. I kept one wendtii and (3) small pontederiifolia. Will be keeping 4-5 of the larger Dwarf Sags, few stems of Bacopa Monneri and L. Repens x. Arcuata. Might do some other things as I go...we'll see.

Over in the Cocama tank, it is clearing up. I doubt it was the SP that caused the cloudiness. I moved it over to another tank and it is fine. I believe it to be the remnants of the new food I was trying out. Now granted it was in the tank for quite a few days so it does make sense.

Fresh zucchini added to all tanks.

[James0816]

Been a spell since any updates. Well...not really a whole lot going on at the moment.

Just routine maintenance in all the tanks. Removed one C. Wendtii from the Vittatus tank. Might have to remove a couple more. Since last thinning of the jungle, it has just blown up. Half the tank is Crypts. The two females are just enormous.

I think mama oto is going to split if she doesn't unload soon. I'm thinking I have two variables going on here. The first is the amount of babies in the tank. Just a ton of em in here. Takes me back to last time when there was a large brood. After I moved a majority of them, she dropped over 100 eggs.

The second variable is regarding the outside environment. Now last year at this time, we were running the AC for my father. This kept the environment pretty fresh and cool. Right now, we still haven't turned it on. Room conditions are currently sitting at 74F and nearly 60% humidity. These are higher than normal. I'm going to start by using a couple of fans down there and see if I can get some circulation going and removing some of the humidity. We'll probably be turning the air on soon but in the mean time, I have to come up with something else.

The Cocama's continue to progress well. Pretty active. All look about the same size. Noone standing out just yet. I'm sure hoping that there is at least one male and one female. As it looks now, I might have four males. Youch. I'm contimplating looking to get a few more from another source to ensure I have a mix. We'll see. Still a couple months to go before a positive ID can be made.

That's it for now. Stay tuned.

[James0816]

Knew I was missing something. Blew away my IE and reinstalled. Lost my favs in the process. Good thing I was going through some notes last night. Forgot I had this journal out here as well. Anyway....

Taking a major swing at the Cocama tank to see if I can get this tank to turn around. The history with it is that it just doesn't produce like the others. Plant growth is very slow in comparison. This is using Flourite as a substrate, dry ferts and CO2. It is puzzling me greatly.

I'm starting out with a big vac. This will be a two day process so I don't stress my little guys out too much. They didn't seem to mind day one. Was able to remove quite a bit of gunk and the TDS dropped way down. Didn't think it was all that bad. Original level was just over 120. After first vac, it dropped 30 points.

Will be snail hunting during the reconstruction as well. The scaping will be switched up a bit as well. Moving some plants around and swapping out others.

If this doesn't coax the growth rate any, I will be pulling the substrate in favor of something else. I may just switch with the SMS that is in the O. Flexilis tank (which is currently waiting stocking).

As for the Vittatus, someone must have thrown some happy pills in both tanks. The activity the past couple of days has been really high. I think it's just that the tanks are getting back to where they should be again. Glad to see that.

I think I have decided to remove the big Java Fern and replace it with a small plant as well as add a plantlet of 'Trident'. It's just too big for the tank. So if anyone is looking for a huge JF, let me know.

More water changes and prunning on tap for the next two days. Still haven't moved the juvies over yet with all the work going on. I changed things in mid stride and didn't want to cause them any undue stress. They should be ready to move by the weekend. The holding tank is kind of bare. I have about 12 or so left. Will get a better feel once the fern comes out. Hope they are all doing fine in their new homes.

[James0816]

Well this is an update I've been waiting to post. I'm home today waiting on the insurance agent to arrive (weekend washing machine disaster).

Just went to check on the tanks and come up with a plan of attack to do water changes. I didn't get the chance to do them this weekend for being out and then cleanup.

All tanks doing really well. Haven't found any further casulties from my previous tank move. Still have at least (5) more juvies I need to move from the Vittatus breeder.

Checked the holding tank last as usual. Nice discovery. I found a fry on the front glass. Kewlness! Did a quick scan of the tank and found a few more here and there. And just when I was about ready to pull out that big Java Fern too!

I'll do a minor top off of that tank and do regular water changes on the others.

[James0816]

Removed the last of the juvies from the Vittatus breeder. It's strictly an adults only party now. ;) Holding tank is full once again. Weather permitting, will start looking for homes next week.

Part 2 of the tank rebuild is underway. The crypt jungle is once again being thinned. These things are growing like crazy! Pulled out (6) more plants. These ones are pretty big. Still leaving the mother crypt in there. Thinned the Subwassertang wall just a bit more. Major gravel under the jungle since they have been uprooted. Jugs were black from the goodies under there.

Shrimp are definately loving the stuff that was stirred up. Will get the crypts replanted and then work on the left side of the tank. This will take a few days to complete. Think I should have it back together by Tuesday.