ID: Is it really LDA67?

[balous]

Hi,
I got two of them, lenght is 6-7cm.
One seems to be a male because of the Odontoden.
The pictures are not good, I know.
But to find them in my 360l tank is not easy
Regards
Michaela

[MatsP]

Panaque maccus

or closely related, yes. I'm not entirely sure what the DIFFERENCE between true P. maccus and LDA67 (

Panaque sp(lda068)

).

--
Mats

[thijs]

Shane gave me some good information on the determination of this species:

I am assuming that you mean the difference between Panaque maccus and LDA 67 (Panaque sp aff maccus)?

This gets a bit complex, because we also have to add LDA 68 (another Panaque sp aff maccus) to the mix in order to cover the topic.

P. maccus is heavily collected for the hobby around Villavicencio, Colombia. LDA 68 is caught alongside P. maccus and the two species are often mixed together when they arrive at retail stores.

LDA 67 is more black and white (versus P. maccus and LDA 68, which when adults are brown and cream) which is a common coloration for a blackwater fish. It is claimed that LDA 67 was imported from Villavicencio, but I find this doubtful as the only place I have seen LDA 67 turn up is in shipments out of Puerto Carreño, which is located on the Orinoco. LDA 67 is either the Orinoco form of P. maccus, or, it is an undescribed Panaque species.

Care for all three is similar. They should be fed driftwood and occasional vegetables as treats. LDA 67 will tolerate higher temperatures and softer, more acidic water but all three species are hardy aquarium residents.
-Shane

Based on coloration, I guess your fish is Panaque maccus

Thijs

[balous]

Hi,
now I have some better pics because they`ve moved to a 112l tank today.
At the moment they have the tank alone, but I´m waiting for 10 Corydoras
arcuatus imported from Peru .

It´s a male and a female and I hope it`s one species.
The female is in the regular colour but the male is a little bit stressed.

Regards
Michaela
att. 3 pics

[balous]

Hi,
because I can just add 3 pics, here are the next.
Regards
Michaela

[Shane]

They need to grow a bit, but these might be

Panaque sp(lda068)

-Shane

[balous]

Hi Shane,
I think they are adult because I got them till more than 3 years
and they grew up in an 360l tank again with a pair of Pterophyllum scalare
and some Corydoras aeneus. So enough space for them to grow.
They are now in a 112l tank because I want to restart with Malawis.
Regards
Michaela

Yuhu, I`m lucky: today I`ve found my Microglanis iheringi.
Thought he died a long time ago because I`ve never saw him.

[MatsP]

If they are anything like other

Panaque

species, I wouldn't be surprised if they grow beyond three years. They are not fast growers by any meaning of the word "fast".

--
Mats

[balous]

Hi,
hm, they have been about 5cm when I bought them.
They now have 8cm which means 1cm per year
But anyway I like my little suckermouthes and they will have
all the time they need to grow and grow ....
Regards
Michaela

[Suckermouth]

Shane, what's the difference between LDA86 and P. maccus? Where is LDA68 caught?

[MatsP]

Panaque sp(lda068)

Says that it's the "Rio Meta" variant of the P. maccus. Slightly larger if I remember some of Shane's comment.

--
Mats

[Suckermouth]

LDA67 comes from the Rio Meta according to the Cat-eLog. I missed where it said that in the Cat-eLog for LDA68 since I was looking for a distribution field rather than identification. Now that I see it, though, it says it is found south of the Rio Meta, so it seems to me that it wouldn't actually be found in the Rio Meta, correct?

[MatsP]

Sorry, yes, "South of" would mean upstream of Rio Meta.

--
Mats

[Shane]

Shane, what's the difference between LDA86 and P. maccus? Where is LDA68 caught?Shane, what's the difference between LDA86 and P. maccus? Where is LDA68 caught?

LDA 86 (aka L 243) is a Peckoltia

Peckoltia sp(l243)

Now that I see it, though, it says it is found south of the Rio Meta, so it seems to me that it wouldn't actually be found in the Rio Meta, correct?

It is found there. LDA 68 replaces Panaque maccus in the llanos drainages south of the Rio Meta. They appear to be two distinct species, as opposed to regional color variations, as both are found together where their ranges overlap.

I have never seen LDA 68 show up by themselves. They are always "contaminants" with P. maccus that are shipped from Villavicencio. It is akin to the Farlowella vittata/mariaelenae situation where almost every shipment is a mixture of the two spp. I suspect many, many hobbyists are keeping LDA 68 and believe thy have P. maccus. An aquarist with a keen eye could probably visit a half dozen stores stocking P. maccus and pull out a couple of LDA 68 from each group.

When young the two spp are nearly indistinguishable. They key is to look closely at the markings on the head. The stripes on the head of P. maccus start as very distinct light stripes and only in mature specimens do they begin to break up and change to light squiggle markings. LDA 68 have the squiggle pattern even as juveniles. LDA 68 are also more robust in general body shape and grow larger. The Cat-eLog lists the sizes for both spp as the same but LDA 68 is much larger. I suspect that the sizes listed in the Cat-eLog reflect hobbyists confusing the two. I have never seen P. maccus reach 100 mm SL and I have collected 100s in the wild. LDA 68 on the other hand will easily reach 100 cm SL and I am sure I have seen some that were closer to 120 mm.

I have pointed the differences out to a couple of exporters in Bogota but there is no interest in shipping them as two spp. This will only happen if one becomes more valuable as happened with many of the Orinoco loricariids. Ten years ago ALL dark with white spots loricariids were shipped as "punto diamante" and a shipment from Bogota might contain a half dozen spp from as many genera. This was common outside Colombia as well. Even a quick review of the earlier L Numbers shows that numbers were assigned to pairs or trios of similar looking fishes from the same shipment (e.g. L 3/4/5, 8/9, 17/18, 21/22/23, 30/31/32/33, etc, etc). This reflects German hobbyists spotting the differences between fishes in a single shipment and not necessarily any action of the collectors or exporters.

Taking a harder look at Michaela's above fishes, and considering that they are adults, they are P. maccus.

-Shane