Tank space solution- Waterbridge???

[Buddy09]

OK, we all need more tank space, either because we keep adding new fish to existing tanks...when we shouldn't....but it was sooo pretty and I may not see one like that again...or in my case because I buy them when they're babies and of course in a year or two they begin to grow too big for their existing homes....Well, been planning to up one of my 75USG's to a 125USG for some time now to accomodate the new and future growth of the catfish in this tank.... Long story shorter I discovered this water bridge thing. For those of you not familiar with the concept...I wasn't...you simply connect two (or more concievably) existing tanks together via an over the top section of water filled PVC, essentially a large siphon tube. This allows water and fish to move freely between tanks...Voila, you have now doubled or tripled the available tank space for the fish without shelling out serious coin for a much bigger tank!!...In my case the planned 125 would have set me back about $300US and netted me a 50% increase in tank space, assuming I shut down the existing tank, which was the plan. In the long term that would likely still not be enough room for the cats when fully grown.........However, I was able to pick up another "75" on sale for $75US, 1/4 the price of the proposed 125. By utilizing this water bridge I will be able to double my available space for a fraction of the cost, effectively ending up with an 8 foot tank. Both tanks will be scaped differently, one planted, the other with rockwork and driftwood. The rockwork tank will have 2-3 times the current of the other (planted) tank. The fish will be able to choose whichever environment suits their tastes and be able to move back and forth at will. ...I will be using a sump setup, draining from one tank, returning into the other, thereby setting up a flow across both tanks, via the water bridge. Higher flow tank will have its own internal pumps to increase current, which won't be felt in the low flow tank. Haven't set it up yet, but I'm excited by the simplicity of the thing....Anybody out there tried this or currently have this setup??? Seems like an inexpensive and interesting way to increase fish space while minimising costs.......

[MatsP]

The problem with a siphon tube is that if it ever gets some air into it, it will loose it's siphoning effect.

I'm planning to replace 1 x 4ft tank with 2 x 2ft tanks (of otherwise similar dimensions), and my plan is to just drill through both tanks - drill one whilst it's on it's side, then get the two tanks into place and drill through into the next one once they are in place, to ensure holes line up perfectly. However, if there is a space between them, it's easy to just drill one and then the other and connect a suitable pipe (or two pipes).

In my case, it's to isolate one group of fish from the other, so that I can breed one without the other interfering (eating fry/eggs, etc).

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Mats

[Buddy09]

Mats, in theory I much prefer your solution and considered it myself before deciding to try this water bridge. However, glass is an annoyingly brittle substance. My concern would be that if there is any movement between tanks it would place a stress on one or both plates that the bulkheads pass through, with a resulting crack and failure. I suppose if you get everything lined up properly and the tanks never move in relation to one another, you'll be fine. With a water bridge the tanks and bridge are each free to move...from whatever cause...independently with no stress transfer and no likelyhood of glass failure. True, if I allowed significant air into the bridge, it will drain, resulting in a flood of Biblical propotions!! LOL..However, I plan to have the ends of the bridge near the tank bottoms, well away from any air source and I am hopeful that this will prevent air from ever entering the bridge. All sounds good on paper, both yours and mine...Guess we'll have to give the repective plans a try and see how things work out. I will post a build thread as I go and keep you folks posted on how this turns out. I hope we'll BOTH have success!!....As an aside, my wife has thrown me and the fish tanks out of the house...starting to take over too much of Mama's space, so I will be moving into the garage with the fish!! LOL...Fortunately I have the space to build a small fish room and do whatever I want. In the event that I do dump several dozen gallons of water onto the floor at least it will be my concrete and not Mama's carpets!!

[MatsP]

Remember that your 3/8" glass already holding up to several hundred pounds of water. A little bit of pull/push on it will not make a big difference. Obviously, if your floor splits and starts pulling a lot, then you have problem - but floor splitting is a problem in itself, so let's hope not.

If you use plastic pipes (which is what I use), then they should stretch/bend enough to cope reduce the load on the glass... If it's really likely to move about in relation to each other, you could put a flexible hose in place of the pipe...

In my case, the tanks will just be connected together with the bulkhead going straight through both pieces of glass at once, so I'm sure there will be no great problems with pressure/stress.

But let's hope both of our plans work.

Yes, I already have a fish-room, so I'm one step ahead of you. Although mine is only about 9 ft square.

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Mats

[Buddy09]

OK, I don't expect my floor to fail, not the concrete one in the garage anyway:)...I dunno, I'm always thinking what-ifs. If your connection has some inherent flexability to it I suppose you'll be fine. A question tho...If your bulkhead is going through both panes of glass won't there be some gap between panels?? A rimmed tank, which I assume you have will keep the two panels maybe a quarter inch apart more or less. When you tighten the bulkhead nut you'll be pulling both panels outwards and creating stress even before you add water...unless I misunderstood what you plan to do. If that's the case I guess you could use some sort of shim or spacer to take up the slack in between. Perhaps I am not visualizing the finished assembly correctly. .....My fish room, the one I have to build, per my wife's instructions:) will be about 8x10, basically the size you have. Bigger would be nicer, but I don't want to give up anymore garage space than that. I figure I'll be able to get 4 of my now 5 tanks in there. Mama say the one in the breakfast room can stay where it is:) I could double that if I stacked them over/under, but I prefer them to be at eye level sitting down and it's easier to work on them if they aren't sitting under another tank. It will be nice to have most of them in one room for viewing and should simplify maintainance somewhat using a common sump system for at least two or possibly three of the tanks. Should be a fun project, but probably take me a few months, start to finish. I'm going to research this water bridge thing some more before I commit to it. The nice thing is that if I don't like it and/or it doesn't work the way I envision I can simply remove the connecting PVC bridges and go back to independent tanks.

[MatsP]

My tanks are "frameless" - all glass tanks - so there should only be a small gap between the two tanks, which I've "covering" with a washer.

If the gap is bigger than that, I'd probably do a spacer with a bigger diameter pipe that fits on the outside of the actual transfer pipe.

Fitting 4 tanks in 8 x 10 ft space is not very much - I have 12 - soon to be 13 - tanks in my fishroom - that's 3 levels of tanks in one rack, and 2 levels + sump filter in the other rack, and a "lone" 4ft x 2ft x 18" tank under my water reservoir for the RO system.

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Mats

[Viktor Jarikov]

Thanks, guys. Useful, thought-provoking and horizon-expanding stuff. I've been mulling over smth like that too. Pretty much Mats' design but using two bulkheads and a large-diameter flex pipe (accordeon style, for instance) in between. Having the bridge clear to view the fish go by may make for even more entertaiment but cleaning may become annoying if hard to reach inside.

I like your cheerful attitude Buddy09. If my wife was not stopping me, I am reasonably certain that, one fine day, I'd silicone all the windows and the front door in the house and just fill it up with water, as I like fish, particularly big fish so much. It may be good that our better halves act as breaks because all we have sometimes is a gas pedal. All right, I went too far. I do not want no stinking breaks!!! Just let me be!

[Buddy09]

OK, you have frameless and a PLAN, so I'll shut up Mats!! LOL....I think too much sometimes....Hey a dozen tanks in your room means I can get a BUNCH more when I get MINE built!! haha...Have to lock the door, not let the wife in there.....Viktor, I like your plan to silicone the windows and doors up and be done with it!! Yes, I have found in my 57 years on this planet that women tend to get things the way they want them and are content not to rock the boat. (At least my wife) Men on the other hand are always looking for the next challenge..or the next fish tank!! LOL...Yeah, cleaning the bridge might be annoying, but I was thinking perhaps I could simply tie a clean rag to a piece of string or wire and pull it through a few times once a month to wipe out the slime, kinda like cleaning a rifle barrel. Gentlemen, there's always a way to do things, usually more than one, we just have to think it through.

[MatsP]

Of course, my tanks are not very large, 27 or 55 gallons each - 24 or 48 x 18 inches base, 15 inches tall, and one 48 x 24 base, 18 inches tall (90gal).

And of course my 100g tank in the house.

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Mats

[nj2tou]

I stopped into an aquarium shop around here this afternoon as they have a TON of different cories and I wanted to see if they had anything I couldn't resist. Fortunately they didn't. But they DID have two tanks that were joined by two tubes and I thought of this thread. Here are a couple of pix:

I thought they were pretty cool.

[highoctane500]

Hi, I was just searching "water bridge" online and found this!
http://gizmodo.com/346527/fish-bridge-c ... -to-use-it
Its a bit over the top but very clever.
I cant find any pics of a (sensible) working water bridge. Has anyone got any?

[Buddy09]

Hello nj, yes, that's the idea I would PREFER to use, but it looks like they are going thru acrylic tanks, which would be much easier and safer I think...mine are glass and I don't trust myself to get the bulkheads lined up right without cracking the glass and having both tanks drain out, which wouldn't be pretty. Check out the bio-elite site, that's where I got the idea, fairly simple and straight forward, and you don't have to risk holes in the tanks. Also, if for some reason it doesn't work out or I don't like it, just remove the bridge and go back to separate tanks. The one thing that is critical going over-the-top, as I will be doing, is to use clear pipe so that you can monitor things to make sure no air is accumulating in the bridge, which could cause loss of siphon and a flood. Once I get mine set up I plan to run some experiments to see just how much air can be in the tube before it loses siphon and the floor gets wet!! So far, the only annoying thing is the price of clear pvc pipe in larger sizes, like $15-30 per foot. Even that isn't too bad since I'll only need a short section between the tanks. However, so far I haven't found anybody that will ship less than 10 foot lengths, which makes it quite expensive. I'm sure I'll find a supplier somewhere and when I do I will post them for others who may be interested.

[MatsP]

Perhaps you can find a customer of one of the suppliers that are willing to sell you a piece of clear tubing. Someone doing "display stands" for shops and such things may be a candidate. Or simply ask the supplier if they know of a company in your area that buys from them.

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Mats

[Buddy09]

I'm reasonably sure I will find somebody somewhere to sell me a short piece, just not sure where yet:)...Yes, the tank-to-tank pipe is certainly the cleaner and more elegant way to go, as opposed to the over the rim route I'm going. On the former, if you have a leak or break in the connecting section, you get a flood. On the later, if you lose siphon, you get a flood...choose your poison!! LOL..I'm sure either setup would work well, if properly done and I plan to be very careful when I set this up. As I said, I will run some controlled tests deliberately pumping small quantities of air into the bridge to find out where the "Oh Crap!!" point is before I turn on pumps and walk away from it. I know that a siphon, any siphon, will work with some percentage of air in the tube, but there is that break-over point when it's going to dump and I'll want to know approximately where that point is so I can head off problems before they happen. Like anything else, if you implement it correctly and are mindful of potential problems, it should work just fine. I'm just excited to get it all together...Still collecting hardware at this stage and I have to build the fishroom, so it's gonna be a lengthly project...should be fun tho!! I'll keep you folks posted as I go along.