new synodontis tank cycle

[Cory_lover]

hey guys,

so i've got a tank for a synodontis multipunctatus or petricola colony. It's gonna be my first time keeping any synodontis.

My problem is that i'm not really sure how to go about cycling the tank. In my previous experiences, I'd go to the aquarium and get some feeder goldfish to get the cycle going, then return the fish 6 weeks later for store credit to purchase my collection of soft water/acidic south american catfish. However, since synodontis require hard and alkaline water, what sorta fish are suitable in these parameters to cycle?

I've done some research on a Seachem product - Stability. Has anyone tried it out according to the directions? It says fish can be added any stage of the cycle, as long as the dosage is maintained for a week. Is it really safe?

[andywoolloo]

do you have an existing tank set up that you can seed the new one with?

use some of the media from the existing tank to jump start the cycle on the new one? Also I add tetra safe start, if you can locate it.

You could also do a fishless cycle with hardware store ammonia, but I do not personally know how to do that, just google fishless cycling.

I normally jump all my tanks from existing ones of mine. I have cycled from the beginning obviously, you just need to have a liquid drop test kit and make sure to do partial water changes to keep the A and or NI at or below 0.25 ppm. altho I do not know if pets or multis are ok for doing that.

If you do not have existing tanks do you know anyone you trust with an established tank you can jump it from?

i have never used the seachem stability. i do not think anything replaces water changes during the cycle.

shows you have aquaria already in your area to the right. share some of the deco, media, substarte etc and jump it.

[Cory_lover]

Hi Andy,

yeah my largest filter I have is a canister filter. I was also thinking of exchanging some existing media (ie: ceramic noodles) from the canister into a new canister i've bought for the synos tank, and some of the new media will go into the old canister (if that made sense). However, by replacing half the old media with established bacteria, with completely new media, is that too dangerous? I suppose I can buffer that by adding tank-cycling solutions to both tank to prevent a spike in ammonia/nitrites.

[andywoolloo]

When i moved my syno lucipinnis from their 20 long to a 75..this is what I did,

I was combining two 20 longs into the 75 and breaking down the 20s.

I set up fish from both those tanks in a temp tank with their filters running and as much of their deco and wood and rocks as I could fit.

I drained the old tanks and then scooped out all the sand and rinsed it in dechlorinated water. added that sand to the 75. filled it up and ran a heater in the 75. moved all the plants and deco over while waiting for it to heat up.

Put all the media from the two 20 long filters into the 75 gal Rena XP4 canister, stole some media from all the other canisters on all my tanks running. just about half a basket of each from each tank. Ran that and added the fish. I also added some Tetra safe start for good measure. I change 50% water every other day for a week to be on the safe side and then it's done. A 0 NI 0 NA less then 5 ppm.

The other tanks that I stole media from, I stole only half a basket from each filter from each tank, most of my tanks run two canisters. so those tanks are not impacted. But I do check their levels for a week to make sure.

I replaced the half baskets I took with new media also into all the old running canisters. of course.

I have never had a problem stealing some as long as you do not take too much from one tank at a time. But all my canisters I run have 4 trays i think. SO like I took one sponge from oen and replaced wth new sponge and from another i took half a basket of media and replaced with new and of course their oirginal filters from the two tanks i broke down all that went into the new canister.

[andywoolloo]

i do not think the seachem stability would hurt to use. I just do not know what it would do, I have nt used it.

also i do not know about the multis but the most common petricola these days is actually lucipinnis usually and they are most often tank bred at least over here so I think they are used to normal water parameters.

but wait for a syno expert to tell you about that.

I keep my dwarf petricola/lucipinnis in my normal water. I do add tofa rock. if that's how you spell it. but mostly it's 7.4 ph or so. Course lots of people keep them with the special water like they are suppossed to be in nature, I just haven't tried that yet.

[DJRansome]

I think you are getting good advice from andywooloo. If the bioload (number and bulk of fish) in your established tank is greater than the bioload you will have in your new tank, putting half new and half established filter media in each filter should be fine.

Don't forget in your established tank you also have bacteria growing on surfaces and substrate.

I have my Lucipinnis and other Africans at pH=7.8 for four years now and they are doing well, spawning, etc..

[Richard B]

What's the pH of your tapwater?

I would use the water from your existing tank along with some ofthe filter media in setting up the new tank. Using coral sand with some tufa rock will help buffer the water & if it is too soft & acidic a ph altering agent can be used. Lucipinnis & Multis can be kept in "standard" tropical set-ups as long as the water is nitrate free as best as can be achieved & not too low a pH - hard alkaline water is better but it depends to some extent on whether they are t/b or w/c & what they are used to.

[Cory_lover]

Hey guys,

thank you so much for all the advice! I think i'll go with andy's idea of the half new/half established setup. One question though, will the bacteria colony in the established media be adversely affected if the water suddenly changes from soft/acidic to hard/alkaline?

Also, I'm kinda confused as to what chemicals I need to produce the water requirements for synos. At my LFS, there are products on the cheaper end of the scale, which promises to buffer the water to match the requirement of Tanganyika, and on the expensive end, there're products like Seachem's "Malawi/Victoria Buffer" and "Cichlid Lake Salt". Anybody have any ideas as to which I should go with? The seachem's Malawi buffer seems to have a better overall package, but is it necessary to use in conjunction with their Cichlid Lake Salt?

Here are the product links for both Seachem products:
http://www.seachem.com/Products/product ... uffer.html
http://www.seachem.com/Products/product ... eSalt.html

Richard - the pH of my tapwater is around 6.5. Sorry, but what do you mean by "t/b" and "w/c"

[DJRansome]

Here is a link to an article on how to improve your water parameters for the African Rift Lakes without purchased, pre-mixed chemicals.
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/w ... mistry.php

t/b=tank bred and w/c=wild caught.

[Cory_lover]

Ah, thanks so much for that cichlid page

I think I'll retest the tank water after i've added the calciferous rocks and/or limestone and see what I products I need to add:)

[Richard B]

as long as the pH is stable at around 7.5 you won't need to do too much as the synos are far more forgiving than rift lake cichlids

[Cory_lover]

Well i've finally got the tank ready to go, and all it needs now is just fish!:)

was just wondering if its ok to have a mix of sizes in the same tank (my lfs has 1 that's around 10cm, and the rest are younger, each about 4-5cm long).

Also, how many would fit into a tank that's 3ft length x 2ft wide x 18inches high? I think that works out to be somewhere around 60gallons.

[Birger]

Well i've finally got the tank ready to go, and all it needs now is just fish!:)

was just wondering if its ok to have a mix of sizes in the same tank (my lfs has 1 that's around 10cm, and the rest are younger, each about 4-5cm long).

Also, how many would fit into a tank that's 3ft length x 2ft wide x 18inches high? I think that works out to be somewhere around 60gallons.

Which species does the LFS have?

You could easily start with a group of 6-8

Synodontis lucipinnis

or 6

Synodontis grandiops

leaving some space for mouthbrooding cichlids for the grandiops for future breeding and for the lucipinnis/petricola some cyprichromis would be a nice match. You could even have a small group of each syno.

Mixing sizes with these is not that critical a thing but of course the smaller may grow slower.

Birger

[Cory_lover]

Oh oops sorry forgot to mention i'll just be getting S. multipunctatus. I'd personally prefer either lucipinnis or petricola, but being in Australia, we've got a limited variety of catfish. Hmmm a group of 6 sounds nice Thanks Birger.

[MatsP]

I'd bet $10 (aus) that your customs inspector can't tell the difference between a multi and a lucipinnis.

--
Mats

[Cory_lover]

Lol! a few of the lfs's i go to seem to have quite a few S. ocellifers. Do they mix well with S. multipunctatus..?

[Richard B]

Personally i wouldn't mix riverine synos with rift synos - plus there is always a chance the ocellifer might be hybrids as a lot of hybrids are currently being labelled ocellifer

[Cory_lover]

ah ok. what're the GH and KH for the ocellifers? PCF only lists temperature and pH ranges...

[Birger]

Synodontis ocellifer

are fairly durable except when it comes to their eyes...not sure why but their eyes seem sensitive. I have seen more cloudy eyes on ocellifer than any others.

If you are expecting them to act and be as active like the tang synos they will not, they are fairly reclusive but do like to dig.

I have seen a few true S.ocellifer available lately.

Birger

[MatsP]

The fact that the pH for S. ocellifer range is quite wide indicates they tolerate a wide range of GH/KH values - as long as the KH is high enough to keep the pH stable above 6.0, I'd say you are fine.

At the auction today, they sold S. ocellifer for £4 (about US $6), including a bucket!

--
Mats

[Cory_lover]

Ok thanks so much for the help guys:)

Just a couple more quick questions:

1) anyone have a favourite cichlid tankmate for the multis? I"ve just bought 2 Electric yellows. Never really go into cichlids so have no idea what're good tankmates for them. Prefer cichlids around the electric yellow sizes and are peaceful. Breedability in aquaria doesn't have to be a prime criteria.

2) Do the multis actually like a strong current in their water? I've got an external filter (hang-on the back type) and an internal power filter, so there is quite a good current going on now.

[MatsP]

As far as I understand, the Lake Tanganyika will not have strong currents. Obviously doesn't mean that the fish doesn't want some water movement, but nothing like strong currents of some types of plecos etc.

--
Mats

[Scleropages]

I've taken care of several African rift lake species tanks (with mostly mbuna and syno cats) with what I would consider a lot of water movement. The mbuna were breeding quite regularly. I don't see it being much of a problem for the types of fishes you want to keep with the synos.

For instance, on my own 90gal rift lake tank, I have two Marineland Emperor 400 hang-on-back filters (400 gph each) and two Rio 1400 powerheads (375 gph each) for the undergravel filter. I am a big fan of copious amounts of filtration and water movement--as long as the species in the tank can tolerate it.

[Cory_lover]

Ok, well the fish don't seem to mind the current much, so I think i'll keep whatever filters I have in there for now. Thanks!

[MatsP]

Just to be clear, I didn't say the fish MINDS current - just that the natural habitat will not have a huge amount of flow [to the best of my understanding of lakes in general]. I have seen rift-lake setups that have a huge amount of flow in them, and yes the fish seem fine.

Of course, most of us when creating "river setups", are not really reflecting the flow that you find in real rivers anyways - the kind that will sweep your feet off the ground.

--
Mats

[DJRansome]

Note that mbuna are harem breeders and prefer to be in groups. Also prevents the male from harassing a single female, causing stress and illness or death. I'd get a couple more labs.

[sabbath]

Just a quick note on the water chemistry. My tap water has no buffer at all. When I set up my first tank here I noticed it and so I began to look for a remedy. I have found adding crushed coral to the filter, and some sodium bicarb during water changes to keep the Ph and Kh rock solid! I currently have 2 ocellifer and 1 milti in a 45g tall. A few squabbles here and there but nothing big. Also use dim light and or a good water surface cover as they don't like bright light at all.