Tank busting Sailfin?

[BBM]

Hello guys.

Any chance you could identify this little chap who's in a neighbours 6ft tank. He thinks it's a Clown, I'm not so sure as it's about 5" in length already.

I've counted 10-12 rays on its dorsal. Definitely 10, maybe 12 I have not managed to photograph his belly yet so I hope the pics below are detailed enough for a go!

Many thanks

[apistomaster]

Eventually one of the "tank busting" Pterygoplichthys spp.
One of the species which has become naturalized alien species in the SE USA waters.
It looks underfed but they recover from adversity all too well. It does have the potential to reach 18 inches in even a tank as small as 50 gallons given enough time and food.
They are excellent to keep with other large fish in very large tanks but they outgrow most community aquariums.
People are even selling fresh clutches of eggs on auction sites which consist of 4000 or so eggs for very little cost. Breeders in Florida are doing that.
These fish have also established themselves in Thailand and Singapore streams.

[Suckermouth]

Definitely no clown, but this doesn't look like your typical

Pterygoplichthys pardalis

or

Pterygoplichthys disjunctivus

either. It could be

Pterygoplichthys anisitsi

, which is similar to the above except it has light spots/vermiculations on a dark background. Get a shot of the belly and I'll be more sure!

[BBM]

I just posted this but it didn't appear

I too was worried about it and thought it looked somewhat emaciated. It does not hide like other plecs despite there being wood & other cover for it. It will not eat cucumber or algae wafers & just seems to be eating algae off the back of the tank. I fear that this will not be enough to sustain it It must be eating something though as he's had it for about 6 months.

I wanted to take it off him, but I had a feeling that it was going to get too big for my 4ft tanks. Its future is uncertain as he is closing down the tank as this little guy is the only fish left. I don't want to "rescue" a fish that will outgrow my means.

Thanks for your answer

[MatsP]

I personally would be very surprised if it was anything other than the common P. pardalis or P. disjunctivus - it is very unlikely that it came from another place than a breeder in SE Asia (which is where the fish in Europe tends to come from - shipping from USA is more expensive, apparently).

--
Mats

[apistomaster]

Mats,
I'm sure you are correct since the distribution pathways for the fish imported into Europe are different from those in the USA.
I am not very well versed with the identification of any plecos which exceed 5 inches. With such an abundant supply of both pool raised and wild large wild plecos I thought since they have become so cheap that many US bred large plecos spp from the USA may have made some inroads with the European importers as the bottom of the prices for the naturalized large plecos dropped so low they could be had for a song and a dance from USA farmers but old habits die hard. The fact remains that young of even entire egg clutches are being offered by US breeders at only about $150 for 4000 eggs so the unit cost of the fish hatched from large egg clutches makes the fry hatched from theses egg masses only about US$0.038 each per fish. That is cheaper than feeder guppies by a factor of 4 yet these fish are still retailing over here for US 5.00 each. That is a heck of a mark up for the fish if you raised them from a large egg mass.
I haven't put much work into memorizing the identification of any plecos which exceed 5 inches save for L128 and L200 where the prize of breeding them is much more profitable. These latter species are not terribly large and are so much more colorful for medium sized plecos they are so much more beautiful than the wild alien species that even I would be interested in them were it not for my bad case of wild Discus fever. All my larger tanks are for Discus and I only include some of the smaller Pleco species as bottom feeders for my Discus tanks.

[andywoolloo]

will not eat cucumber or algae wafers

there are many fine feeding articles on this site. mats has some greats ones, by his posts it will say articles

my pardalis eats cucumber, zuchinni,romaine lettuce, mango, mushroom, sweet bell pepper strips, Just not the green ones, all raw weighted down, romaine lettuce on veggie clip.

he likes sinking earthworm sticks, sinking shrimp pellets, sinking spirulina wafers and sinking hikari algfae wafers, he will only eat the hikari ones. any defrosted frozen, speccially bloodworms, shrimp, tubifex.

also, sometimes they do not recognize it as food, just keep putting in at night removing in morning, putting fresh in at night and removing in morning.

[BBM]

Thank you for your answers.

I have threaded some cucumber, melon & mango through some cotton & suspended it so it is against the back of the tank. A fruit "kebab" as it were.

I want to get this fish as the other option is either a pet shop where it will end up god knows where, or it will slowly starve to death in the tank. The guy's not moving house yet so he's going to keep the tank running. I want to see it feed & fatten up. Every time I have been round there it is just stuck to the back of the tank & even at night doesn't seem to move much. I don't know much about plecs, but I know that that is not "normal" behaviour & that any other plec would make use of the furniture to hide during the day & come out at night to roam the bottom looking for nourishment.

I don't want it to stave to death. It just seems it is not interested in food.

EDIT



I got me a picture of his tummy & I think he has an identity crisis. I put some flakes in the tank (just as a matter of curiousness) & he went somewhat mad & started picking them off the plants that they had settled in. This is a strange fish no? This is what he was eating before when there were other fish in the tank clearly.

Sorry to keep going on about him

[apistomaster]

I used to have one similar to your fish which was 17-1/2 years old when I got it and it was also 18 inches long.
It was an impressive sight to see it feed at the surface upside down sucking in Tetramin Flakes.

[andywoolloo]

oh i forgot to say i do not leave the fruit items in overnight. only a few hrs.

and i forgot mine loves papaya, seeds removed, split down the middle.

[Suckermouth]

Well that belly shot says you've got P. disjunctivus, but it still looks kinda weird to me if it is.

[BBM]

I have taken ownership of this fish now.

Upon close examination he is quite badly scarred, possibly heater burns & I think the reason he was so thin was because he only had rock hard bog/mopani wood in the tank, no soft driftwood to supplement his digestion. I have rectified this & with some measure of success. He is now merrily eating prawn/shellfish/cucumber/courgette & wafers. He has already fattened up in the space of a few days & his behaviour is more typical for Plecos in that he's hiding when the tank is illuminated & only coming out at dusk/dawn. Crepuscular little fellow just like our house rabbits In fact, I can draw another similarity between him & our rabbits in the amount that they both defaecate! It is practically non-stop, more so now he is eating the driftwood.

I'm growing rather attached to him & am making arrangements for a trusted, permanent home. I can't keep him long as we're taking delivery of 3 Clown Plecos in 2 weeks & he will be too big to care for adequately.

Many thanks for all your fine answers & especially for the feeding tips.

I will no doubt be posing more questions when I get our new Panaque maccus which I am very excited about

Richard.