Are Jager heaters REALLY submersible???

[Aquafinatic]

Hello out there...

I am considering the purchase of several Jager aquarium heaters at this time. (I *think* the name has changed, from Ebo-Jager...)

With regard to submersing them, the manufacturer states that these heaters should only be submersed to the "high water mark", as indicated on the heaters.

On the other hand, I spoke with a L.F.S. owner, today, who told me that he has several dozen of these heaters in his store's tanks, set horizontally, just above the gravel, several inches below the water line. He stated that he has been using them in that fashion for several years, and without incident. I was able to find one "product review" on the web, in which the aquarist/reviewer not only complimented these heaters, but stated that he places his entirely under the water's surface.

So my questions are: Do any of you use these heaters? Do you submerse them fully? Have any of you had any problems with submersing them fully? Finally, have any of you had any OTHER significant problems with Jager heaters?

Thank you, as always. Cheers!

[MatsP]

I've got one of these:
http://www.eheim.de/eheim/inhalte/index ... 24552_ehen

I've had it for over 5 years now - I no longer have the tank that it was part of the package with, but I still use the heater.

And it does indeed work fine fully submersed. I do not put my heater in horizontally, for two reasons:
1. Horizontal position encourages plecos to hide on/under the heater, which can cause heater burn.
2. The thermostat is more likely to stay on longer, since the warm water rises, and if the thermostat [normally near to the "wire" end] of the heater/stat assembly isn't near the top of the tank, the heated water will potentially warm the water warmer than the "requested" temperature. This can of course be "corrected" by having a good water-flow in the tank, something the fish [especially plecos] will appreciate quite well.

Almost all other heaters I use are VisiTherm heaters - I've found them good, reliable and easy to adjust. They can also be used horizontally, with the same two caveats given above. The only one that has broken down so far was one that I pulled out of water, and then accidentally let back into the water when it was glowing hot - it cracked.

As far as I know, all heaters work fully submersed, as long as there is sufficient water flow to ensure the thermostat works correctly.

--
Mats

[zipper]

I have some that are over 10 years old. they are very reliable and also run them fully submerged. I always thought that the line was for the maximum amount of the heater you could have OUT of the water. I cant be sure though, I never did read the instructions way back when.

[MatsP]

Absolutely, the "subermsion line" is a "minimum level", and I'm pretty sure the depth allowed for the Visitherm heaters is about 1m under water - and I expect others to follow the same standard.

--
Mats

[sidguppy]

got jagers underwater
no prob so far

was rooting in tank yesterday
didn't get zapped

me thinks you have a go, Houston

[Aquafinatic]

Thank you very much, everyone, for your replies! I appreciate that kind of practical and useful feedback, and you've helped me.

Next -- I feel a HUGE rant coming on! The continual barrage of contradictions that I encounter in pursuing this wet hobby are enough to make me lose my mind. HOWEVER, due to my high level of respect for the Planet Catfish site AND it's members, I will summon a high level of self-control, and suppress that rant.

Does this stuff happen to any of you guys? Is it just me? This is what I'm talkin' about:

While reading your responses, I checked out the link that was provided by Mats. At that link, there was a page of information about the Jager heater, and a list of the heater's attributes. Among those, we read:

"The heater can be fully immersed..."

Okay. That's good news. But seeing that statement caused me to question my sanity. I was just about to call the local mental health facility, but then I had a moment of strength. In that moment, I said aloud, "No! I'm not imagining things! I KNOW what I saw yesterday, and many other times in the past! I shall get to the bottom of this!"

I then visited the Foster and Smith Aquatics website. They sell the Jager heaters. There, among the information for the SAME heater, we read the following statement:

"Submerse up to 'waterline' in vertical position."
Okay. That is consistent with what some of you guys pointed out, that the heater has to be IN the water; NOT sticking way OUT of the water. I think we can all agree upon that.
But just 2 inches below that, we also read:

Caution: "...Do not submerse beyond 'water line'."

Ah hah! It seemed as though I had verified the contradiction. In order to be certain, I visited the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary, and looked up the following words: "submerse", "submerge", "immerse", and "emersed". According to Merrian-Webster, "submerse", "submerge", and "immerse" all mean, in simple terms, "to put down INTO the water".

So the instructions at the F&S website tell us to place the heater into the water, as far as the water line, but to NEVER put it into the water ANY FARTHER than the water line. DOAH!

IN CONCLUSION: I realize that an online seller could easily have an error on one of its pages, so I searched the web, checking out other sites where this heater is sold. Very quickly and easily, I found similar warnings, (telling us that we MUST NOT install this heater any deeper than the water line), on FOUR other sites.

So there you have it. Stop the madness! Planet Catfish buyers beware!

p.s. Mats -- I never thought about plecos trying to hide under the heaters. That sure sounds like something that they'd try to do. Good point.

[MatsP]

Well, The instruction manual from the Eheim website, on page 5 (of 32) says:

Risk of overheating:
Water level must never be below minimum mark (4) on the housing.
Max. immersion depth 0.5m.

The (4) refers to the wavy line around the bottom of the plastic top bit of the heater...
And as long as your tank isn't much more than 2 feet deep, I'd say you're fine with a 50cm max immersion depth.

The document can be found here:
http://www.eheim.de/eheim/pdf/en/anleit ... 1-3609.pdf

And yes, you can find all sorts of inconsistencies on the internet (and if you have enough "proper written" literature, you will probably find some there - the difference is that most of the time, you don't own more than at most three or four books about the same subject, so you never see it as much as you do when you google something on the internet and find 60 pages on the subject, all saying slightly different variants of each other). [The company I work for recently found that some of the "recommendations" for software development in the "Beginners guide" using the libraries that we produce is using a "short cut" method, which makes the code simpler, but it also means that the code won't work with the latest version of the product!]

--
Mats

[Aquafinatic]

......you can find all sorts of inconsistencies on the internet (and if you have enough "proper written" literature, you will probably find some there - the difference is that most of the time, you don't own more than at most three or four books about the same subject, so you never see it as much as you do when you google something on the internet and find 60 pages on the subject......
Mats

I never thought of it that way. That's a good analogy there, between books and the internet. Things HAVE changed, haven't they? Look how quickly we can look something up today, and rapidly see and compare information from 5... 10... even 20 sources, in one sitting.

Thank you, again, for your valuable input. I'm going to have a look at that link that you provided, but I'm nearly certain that I'm going to buy these heaters. Have a great day.

[Blackhawker]

I have a 250 watt Jager heater and I'm happy with it so far. I have it vertical just past the line and it hasn't failed me. I just never felt the need to submerse it.

[2wheelsx2]

It's actually better to not submerge it if you can arrange it so since it reduces the likelihood of a leak.

[MatsP]

Collecting evidence that they can be submerged [although I do agree with Gary, if the heater can be fitted near the surface, it's less pressure for the seal(s) {rubber ones, not the fish-eating mammals!} to deal with].

http://www.hagen.com/pdf/aquatic/Fluval ... et-Eng.pdf

8. Make sure that the heater is securely installed before operating it. The heater must be
immersed in water at least up to the MIN. WATER LEVEL indicated (but without
exceeding the depth of 100 cm- 39 inches). This aquariumheatermust never operate
outside of water. The heater must never operate without the heater guard.

It later on shows a heater submersed fully with a cross over it, and one laying on it's side with a cross over it, but both of these are actually saying "You must not put the heater into/laying on the gravel", and has nothing to do with submersion or horizontal position.

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Mats