L239 Spawning ...again

[krazyGeoff]

Another fault many aquarist do when they discover fry in their tank is to leave them thinking they will survive, fry that have their yolk sac left are "candy" for all other plecos or fishes in the same tank... even for their parents. Fry that are in the end to consumed their yolk sac are more move able and if lucky they can escape but most of them die in one way or another. All newly hatched or up too 1-2 weeks old fry should be caught and placed in a rearing container... that increase their chances to survive with 99,9%. Fry inside the cave with a caring father, let the father take care of the fry... fry outside the cave you have to take care of the fry, it's a good rule. Even when the fry normally leave the cave they should be moved to a rearing container, if the owner wants to save and raise as many as possible.

Janne

Thanks for the great advice Janne.
I find it quite interesting that almost everything about rearing fry that I can recall seeing, was about placing them in a rearing container etc, so that they can be monitored more closely and fed more frequently etc than the parents.
Rather than because they appear as food to bigger fish, even the parents. I guess I just didn't consider this because they are in a species only tank.
Another day goes by and I am a little older and a little wiser.

[krazyGeoff]

All is not lost.

I was doing a water change and saw a little black thing zip off under a bit of wood.
I looked into the cave and there was another.
I have moved the cave to a hatchery, but could not extract the male, or the baby(s).

Now I am concerned that the male will eat the baby, and wonder if I have done the right thing?
The yolk is fully consumed, and the little fella can suck onto the cave wall just as well as his dad!
It is about 1.5 cm long (TL)
Thanks
Geoff

[flatfish]

That's awesome news Geoff. Congratulations. I hadn't been on the site for a little while and have just caught up on your acheivements. Hopefully my L002's may do something eventually. Plenty of fanning by the male but no sign of a female at his cave.

[Janne]

The male will not eat the fry, "daddy" pleco only eat their fry with yolk sac if they have a reason to do it. As soon the fry consumed the yolk sac it's safe from all other plecos but will have difficult to compete for food.

Janne

[krazyGeoff]

Thanks for that.

Got it sorted in my head now.

Geoff.

[phoenix44]

Another great breeding!
congrats!

[DJ-don]

Another fault many aquarist do when they discover fry in their tank is to leave them thinking they will survive, fry that have their yolk sac left are "candy" for all other plecos or fishes in the same tank... even for their parents. Fry that are in the end to consumed their yolk sac are more move able and if lucky they can escape but most of them die in one way or another. All newly hatched or up too 1-2 weeks old fry should be caught and placed in a rearing container... that increase their chances to survive with 99,9%. Fry inside the cave with a caring father, let the father take care of the fry... fry outside the cave you have to take care of the fry, it's a good rule. Even when the fry normally leave the cave they should be moved to a rearing container, if the owner wants to save and raise as many as possible.

Janne

can i just ask, if you had looked at my L104 thread and me setting a tank up for them etc.

i am planning to get a tunze turbelle nanostream 6025 powerhead for fast movement because rupert and geoff reccomended high water movement

i was thinking wouldnt the fry get sucked up in the pump or the pump is so strong it pushes them to one spot?


btw congrats geoff

[MatsP]

Fry are generally good at not getting sucked away - they live in much higher current in the wild than what we produce in our tanks.

--
Mats

[Farid]

geoff,
did you separate them or did you left them in the tank?

as i left 20 L204 in the parents tank inkl. feeding daily powdered food ...nothing survived!!

all others 30 are alive!! so it is really necessary to get the cave incl. the male out (if they were in the cave)..wait until they spawn...give it 2-3 days then wash the cave(leave the male in there!!) and place it to the exact place where the cave was before you took it out.

the fry will now have time to grow. soon as the jolk sack is only slightly yellow food is needed!! make sure they get the original tankwater circulating in their fry tank...flowing back into the main tank
as you can see on my L397 page further down...
http://www.veloofahren.ch/Aquarium/L397.htm

like this the oxygene is enough no food rests lay in the tank and the main filter has to deal with the left food...going back into the maintank...

this is the usual way i do it. and it works great. even with 2cm i dont place the babies back into the main tank..i feed them until they reach about 3cm, untl they have a well fed body and enough body mass...this is important...otherwise if their're not enough strong they will slim like hell and die...

give it a try (you will have much more success...) soon as the babies realize danger...like a snail aproaching them...you can add 3-5 Melanoides tuberculata to let them clean the baby tank...do not add them too early as they could eat parts of the fry...

farid

[krazyGeoff]

Thanks P44 and DJ.

Nice to hear from you again Farid.
I had 3 tanks built based on one of your filters:

cz-filter6.jpg (68.19 KiB) Viewed 2740 times

But without the air lift intake, instead an air stone in the smaller tank, and netting at each end to allow water from the tank to pass through.
The first time I used it I had an external filter trickle water into it, but this caused too much current and the eggs rolled around too much and they all died (L140).
The second time I used it was with fry that had consumed their egg sack, and placed some wood in there so that the flow was not as strong, it was a success (L002). The next batch of L140 went into the same tank with the L002 and were fine (and continue to grow out nicely).
The third time I used it with just an airstone on fry that had almost consumed their yolk sack and all but 3 died on the second day (L140), so I released the 3 back into the main tank (they had consumed their yolk sack by then) to take their chances, as I think they had a better chance in there.
This time after a few days the male (L239) had stopped eating and there was no sign of the youngster so I put them back in the main tank.
The good news is that I see the little fella every day. I am even quite certain that there has been another spawning (L239) in one of the logs of wood.
Meanwhile one of my L204 females is VERY gravid........
Sometimes I wonder if I should have not got quite a "fancy" a collection of fancy pleco's since I struggle so much to keep the babies alive. Although I was under the impression that spawning them was going to be the hard part.
I have breed 1000's of BN, and always remove the babies to a growout tank as soon as they have consumed the yolk sack; however the fancy males, and fry, seem much more "attached" to their caves It is very frustrating

give it 2-3 days then wash the cave(leave the male in there!!) and place it to the exact place where the cave was before you took it out.

The cave is an orniment that enables the male to "lock" himself in there whilst trapping the fry in there. Very much shaped like a number 8 (but hollow on the inside). With the entrance at the bottom, so he can block it in the middle and there is no chance of getting the fry out.

The next batch of L140 are about 3-4 days away from consuming their yolk sack, and as yet I am undecided what to do with them!

Regards

Geoff

[hiplecoman]

Congradulations! Hope you have many years of success !

[phoenix44]

The next batch of L140 are about 3-4 days away from consuming their yolk sack, and as yet I am undecided what to do with them!

I know a fair few people that would put their hands up for some fry (me included)

[Farid]

hi geoff,
sometimes it is hard to get the fry out i know...some of the older fry are even scotched so well it takes me 2-3 minutes until ii get all of them out.

as long water will come out there will also be a chance to wash out the fry. not seldom i even shake the cave and quick let the water come out. just to make sure i got them all out. for the male this is not too much stress i guess as it usually stays in his cave and keeps on fanning even the cave is empty.

with some of my L's there are less fry left if i leave the male do it's job... as if i wash them out..

farid

[krazyGeoff]

Well..........
I did wonder if there had been another spawning with another male in one of the knotted wood stumps that is in that tank.

Today after I had finished the water change a little black thing came over to see what I was doing.....
Then after lights out I decided to look around with a torch....
The knot where the male used to reside was empty, and I counted 6 babies. They were all over the tank and appeared to be grazing on the glass and wood. They are about the size of bristlenose when they first escape from the cave, but a bit wider at the ventral fin, much like the L239 shape.

And the first male is once again "locked" in his cave.

These little guys are really quick, and I am not sure if I am able to catch them.

Farid, how did you catch your L204?

Welcome back to the world flatfish.

Cheers
Geoff

[MatsP]

Good news! Congratulations.

--
Mats

[Farid]

hi geoff,
if you're lucky the joungsters scotch to the wood...lift it and wave your net under it while you lift is further...

otherwise i have something like a glasspipe that i use to catch any you fish...

i'll show a pic if you like...it's a really cool tool!!

farid

[krazyGeoff]

Hi Farid,
If you could post a picture of your device that would be good. Thank you.

There has been another spawn, this time the little ones are a day? older than the last time, and there are about 10 of them, again they are on the opposite side of the tank to the spawning cave.

Of the previous spawn (I'm not totally sure there was a second at the same time, although it may explain why some of them survived, rather than just being lucky??) there are six little guys that come out at feeding time, and I see them in the rocks during the day. If I put the food in the right place some drops onto the wood where they come out and eat it. They have a L239 shape but have stripes of almost black, and a brown colour.

The good thing, of course, is that they are in fact continuing to spawn, the not so good news is that the male is still kicking them out of the cave too soon. I wonder if it is because the cave is so tight I could not see the eggs. All I could see was the male fanning gently with his anal fins, and me wondering if he was doing what I thought he was doing. It is very frustrating, as I would like to ensure a higher survival rate.

Thanks

Geoff

[andywoolloo]

wow. again!!

very exciting. Good for you.