Sexing my L-204, please help?

[LizH]

I have a tank w/ six Panaque sp. L204's - and trying to figure out which ones to remove from there.

Seems there is a lot of smal fights there now, and of course I would love to breed these guys. They've lived together for 2years+ One of the six I've had for 4 years.

Two of the six are certain males. The rest keep confusing me.

One of the two with the least odontodes, seems to prefer staying in a cave a lot of the time. That obviously confuses me. This particular fish seems to have small fights with the other one who has little odontodes.

The pictures shown here are of one of those two individuals who are taking turns chasing each other.

Anyone have any ideas to whether its a male or female? TL = 15 cm, SL 10cm

[LizH]

For those of you who don't use the metric system:
TL= 5.9 inches
SL= 3,9 inches

[Griparn]

I would say its a male.

[LizH]

Thank you for your reply Griparn

What makes you say male? Shape of the head? Or the general body shape? I have read a lot about sexing these guys, and everybody seems to have their own theories. I have read so many posts and looked at so many pictures, I am more confused than I ever was before

Hopefully more people will answer this post later- I would like to hear what people think about this

I do know that 204's are very hard to sex, so I do not expect any definite answers here - but hopefully some of you are willing to guess together with me? ;)

[Griparn]

I say male because of the odontal growth. From my own experience with Panaque only males grows odontals like that. Though I hope it's a female

Im sure you will get some good answers soon.

[Farid]

hi liz,
apart from picture 1 i'd say it's a female! (nice belly)

picture 2.the two bumps on the side ...looks more like a male...

pic 3. a real male hat much more odontodes...

maybe you have a chance to make a picture from the top (white background so i see the odontodes better...)
one top one more from the top-side...
and maybe one from the front of the head.

until now i say female (even if 2. is confusing)

cheers
farid

[krazyGeoff]

Hi Liz,
I hope Farid is trying to say that this fish looks like a hairy female?

Body shape looks good (for female), age and size is good enough to say that it should be more hairy if it was a male.
Even if sometimes I think that body shape gives way to hairyness in older specimins.
One of my females is more hairy than the others, and still I have my doubts.

More pictures is always good, but I am inclined to agree with Farid: A hairy female.

Cheers

Geoff

[LizH]

Too bad these guys are so difficult to sex. Personally I think there is a slight chance it is a female, but it is more likely it is a male playing it cool because of the dominant males... Obviously I hope it is a female... ;)

My personal theory is that only one in ten 204's seen in the stores are female... that's why they are so hard to find....

[krazyGeoff]

Hi,
If you have the room... I removed the dominant males from my group, in order to give the sub dominant male / hairy female a chance to express himself

There was no further growth of the body hairs, which is why the "hairy female".

I had 7: 3 x M, 2 x F, 2 x ?
Then I removed 2 of the males and purchased 2 "females" so I had (in the main tank): 1 x M, 4 x F, 2 x ?
Then after a few weeks I had: 4 x M, 2 x F (the originals), 1 x ?
Then I removed 2 of the males and now 2 x M, 2 x F, 1 x ? (the "hairy" female?).
In the other tank 4 very hairy Males.

Just my observations

Regards

Geoff

[LizH]

I think you are on to something there, crazyGeoff.

I might try that

[ryalan]

I have seen a web site about Indonesia breeder of L 204 but I can´t find it any longer
does anybody knows a web site where possible see about true breeing of L204 ??

thanks

[MatsP]

Janne has written an article, which is in Shane's World:
Spawning Panaque sp L204.


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Mats