L333 breeding for newb, need advise.

[plecotac]

Hi All, I am trying to breed L333. Currently I have just acquired 2 pairs of L333. These 2 pairs have not bred before and unfortunately neither me or the seller know if they come from the same bloodline.
I am new into pleco breeding and I heard L333 is one of the easiest exotic pleco to breed. My questions are:
1. What are the chance of breeding if they are on the same bloodline? Would that affect quality? (colors, growth, etc)

2. The 2 males are 7.5 and 8 cm long and the 2 females are about 5.5-6 cm. Again I don't know how old would these fish are so can anyone tell me roughly how old are they and if they are sexualy mature for breeding? When are they sexually mature for breeding? I was told by the seller that the male has shown breeding behavior but the females looks not mature enough...

3. How big are the caves I have to provide? At the moment they are in my 4ftx18x18 tank (250 liter) together with 5 silver dollar and 31 cm (12") common pleco (perdalis). I am planning to move the big common pleco and leave the silver dollars in there, would this be a problem for them to breed? I was locally advised that the silver dollar won't disturb them.

4. What kind of nutrition I have to provide for optimal growth for the breeding parents (not really too sure if my pairs are mature enough)

5. When the fries are born (supposedly I reach into this stage), what kind of food I have to provide?

6. Filtration. I am using fluval 305 standard intake pipe and otto 1200 for secondary filter (acts as aeration as well). Would these setup be safe enough for the young fries (dont want them to get sucked in) Or I should wrap the intake pipe with some fabrics or fine wire mesh?

Thank you very much. Hope to see some answers soon =D

Best regards
Ivan

[Janne]

If the size you mention is total lenght the lager ones have just reach maturity, the smaller has not. How do you know that is 2 males and 2 felames if they never have bred before?

Keep them in the 250L without the pardalis for a year and grow them out without any caves, just hiding spots so they feel secure, feed them pleco tablets, frozen food like Cyclops, Dahnia etc. and change water frequently... this will make them grow faster. Than, you would be sure and able to determine the sex of these 4 L333.

When it's time to breed them (around 9-10 cm TL) and they really are both sexes you give them some good caves, opening 4 cm wide, 3 cm high and aroun 12-15 cm deep. The fry you should move to a rearing container before they leave the cave so you don't need to worry for the filter intake.

Janne

[2wheelsx2]

Does it make a difference before sexual maturity not to have caves? Is it to stem aggression?

[plecotac]

Thanks very much for the reply Jeanne...

I bought this from a guy who said he got them from 3cm (1") and he did tell me they are not mature yet. The 2 bigger fish (presumably male)hid into driftwood crevases or holes i have in the tank. The smaller fish (presumably female) seem to enjoy more outside crevases between the wood and the bottom of the tank.

Now about feeding...

Because they hide in the holes/drift wood crevases I was talking about...it's hard for me to locate them =D which is a pity because they look so beautiful. Should I just place the food anywhere or put them inside the drift wood cave?

Thanks again

[Janne]

Does it make a difference before sexual maturity not to have caves? Is it to stem aggression?

Yes, in this case it does, because some of them are mature and some is not mature and we don't want them to think on sex... yet ;)

They grow better and faster without the opportunity to breed, they would use lots of energy that they now instead can use to gain weight and size.

Janne

[2wheelsx2]

Yes, in this case it does, because some of them are mature and some is not mature and we don't want them to think on sex... yet ;)

They grow better and faster without the opportunity to breed, they would use lots of energy that they now instead can use to gain weight and size.

Janne

Thanks Janne. That makes a lot of sense.

[apistomaster]

Janne is right.
Wait until all of your L333 are about equal in size and about 3 years old before making a concerted effort to breed them.
Once L333 begin breeding they seem to breed the year around pretty regularly. Any resting between spawns in my group depends mostly on the fact that there are 3 males and 4 females so at least one female takes an occasional break. The males must have enough self control to take time out to feed well between spawns or they would have shriveled up out by now.
My L134 Peckoltia Leopard Frog plecos have demonstrated that they breed seasonally about 6 months then rest for 6 months give or take a month here and there for the past 3 years.
But back to L333. They may need about 3 years to mature but they have rather long breeding lives for a fish their size. I think once they begin breeding that they will continue to do so for at least 8 years and maybe several more years than that.
They have large spawns of 30 to 60 depending on their age/size.

I find the adults and fry do well on a basic diet of earth worm stick. But I also feed them some Spirulina sticks and I give them frozen blood worms 2 or 3 times a week.

[plecotac]

Thanks for further info, much appreciated.

Can anyone give me growth length/age ratio? I mean how long/big can they grow per year?

[Janne]

The larger they will be the slower they will grow because they start to grow "wider", but and this is where many people make them think fish grows slowly... daily water changes even if you only feed them once will make them grow twice as fast or even three times faster with the same amount of food in the same period of time.

So, under optimal conditions and from which age and size you begin to grow them, they can grow from a few millimeter to several centimeter. Let say that your fishes is youngsters 1-max 2 years old that before have had a normal growth, you would be able to grow them to +10 cm within a year even without perfectionism, than it will go slower.

Janne

[plecotac]

Great thank you very much jeanne, that's very informative. So My fish are about 1 year.

Are they typically very timid? As I never see them out of their hiding place. I am having problem to feed them if they never come out as I don't know where they are. (if I knew, I'd just place the food near them because if I put the food just anywhere, the big perdalis will devour the food before they can even get close to it) Might really have to move the big guy...

[plecotac]

I've moved the big perdalis into another tank as well as 3 silver dollars. I only have 3 very small silver dollars and 2 medium size silver dollar. And I just noticed that 2 of the 333 came out checking. My water is good PH7.0 ammonia/nitrite/nitrate 0/0/20. I havent got kh gh test. I'll get the test kit tomorrow or so. I don't think my tap water is considered soft water as I think l333 likes soft water. What should I do to make the water softer?

Thanks again

[MatsP]

At this point, I wouldn't worry about making the water soft - as long as your nitrate and pH are OK, you are fine.

To soften the water (in any way that is actually effective to the fish), you'd have to us an RO system (or a De-ionization system) - there is nothing you can add to the water to dramatically change the hardness/mineral content/conductivity (which are all sort of related measures of "what's in the water") - you want to take things out...

--
Mats

[apistomaster]

I don't think L333 are particular about the water chemistry. Fresh clean water is important.
Mine breed nonstop in my tap water has a pH of 7.4, KH 6, GH 7 and 340 ppm TDS.

[plecotac]

Thanks alot for the water chem info. That means alot to me.