Pseudacanthicus sp L25 "Scarlet" : another breeding tale

[Haavard Stoere]

That is good news

Are you leaving the eggs with dad or are you stealing them?

[dconnors]

congrats! That is very exciting news! Will you still be going to Hannover with a clutch of eggs in the cave? Also, could you describe the size of your caves? I have 5 L25 of my own, and while still small I hope too be able to breed them one day. Make sure to keep us posted, I'm sure you will though!

[ElTofi]

I have no choice but to leave the eggs with Mr Dad...

Last time, I wasn't ready and I stole them, for the poor result you know... this time, I will let them in with dad... I have no choice as I'm leaving for Hannover in 4 days (too early for hatching). So the only "emergency measure" I'm taking is to take the Crenicichla off the tank... and cross my fingers...

I'll see what I'll find next Monday, when I'll get back from Germany.

[ElTofi]

about the caves as dconnors asked me...


on this one you can see the second male (around 35 cm TL at that time in December 2008).

The caves are 50 cm deep, 15 cm large and a little bit less high, closed to an end.

[Haavard Stoere]

I hope the new owner will add some images in a few years. It would be very interesting to see how they will get their colors!

I promise to post pictures of the young ones in this very thread unntil the age of 2 years. Yes, they are moving to Norway.

The fish are so beautiful:)
It would be great if the dad managed to take care of the eggs. Get the crenicichla out of there. You should also maybe consider adding some almond leaves (or similar) in a net as a natural desinfectant.

[Cristoffer Forssander]

Then we know they are in good hands! I'm looking forward for some new images!
I also agree with Håvard on adding some almond leaves...

I'm really crossing my fingers this time! It would be great to see a aquarium full of small L25s babies!


I'm got my hands on four L25s, but they are small, so I just have to wait a few years!

ElTofi, you're simulation seemes to work out just fine on pseudacanthicus. It would be very interesting to hear about this, step bu step!

Have a good time in Hannover, I'm sad I can't bee there and meet you all!

Cristoffer

[dconnors]

Thank you for the pics of the caves! That is very helpful to me, they are quite large. Also, have you changed anything or improved on anything since the first spawn that you would care to share with the rest of us? Sorry for all the questions, I'm just trying to make sure I'm doing everything possible for my L25. Thanks!
Dave

[ElTofi]

not a change in this tank from last January (1st spawning). But I check every single day the health of the fishes and I can say a few things :

- the alpha male became more discret after I stole the 1st clutch. He became very shy, stucked inside his cave all day long, on the right side of the tank, only night active and I didn't see him fight with the second any more...
- the second male became more and more colourfull, with very strong pectoral odontodes, coming out in the light every day, very easy to feed and to observe, day active, chasing some intruders from time to time, being a Pseudacanthicus.
- the female was less shy than the alpha male, but still a bit secret comparing to the second male. I realized she was gravid in mid october, after a very heavy campain of water changes.
- the second male tried to take his chance, but she never gave him a chance, even if he took the "first spawning site" for him alone.
- in September and October, I proceeded to very heavy water changes, at first with RO water 120 liters a day during 2 weeks (more than 1200 liters), and then, I stopped (cause it was very boring to take every evening 8 buckets of RO in my car from the job) as there was no result at all.
- in October I went on with waterchanges, but with prepared tapwater (GH : 14, kH : 8 ). I used a 300 liters tank full of tap water, pumping it into the main tank, and at the same time filling it with new tap water while the main tank was emptying by a simple siphon system. So I guess I changed around 400-500 liters of new tap water every day during more than 3 weeks (shame on me, I'm not an ecologically responsible guy)

This worked very well for the Leporacanthicus galaxias, shortly followed by the Pseuda. I even can see the Retroculus xinguensis digging the sand to create nests... even if I see no chance of breeding for them actually. That's it ! I guess there's a question of season and timing also. I wouldn't be surprised if somebody told me the Pseuda are seasonnal fishes : very big clutch of eggs, on a short period of time in the year... Exactly the opposite of the Hypancistrus for exemple, which are able to spawn all year long, but smaller clutches of eggs.

[hiplecoman]

congradulations! I hope you have many more spawnings! this great news since L25 is now prohibited for export out of brazil.

[dconnors]

Thank you very much for sharing with all of us. I can't wait to see how the eggs progress this time!

[ElTofi]

Get the crenicichla out of there.

Done, and it was not that easy... I had to fish it with a hook and a strong line (she broke the first attempt 2 days ago)... I guess I hurt her when she fell on the floor from the above of the tank (140 cm high, down on the concrete floor, ouch...)

I'm gonna be very carefull these 2 next days and watch her in the 375 liters very closely. If she survives, I will let her go in there...

Normally, there is nothing left between my new L25 spawning adventure and the success of it !?!

[Proteus]

very awesome reverse trio you got there- congratulations on getting where not many has gone before in pleco breeding!


I loved the pictures of their growth progression.

[Cristoffer Forssander]

Hi!

Is the male still guarding the eggs?

Cristoffer

[ElTofi]

no problem for the moment... he's much more inside the cave than he was the first time, which makes me quite confident this time... a very regular fanning with fins, not a chance for me to light or to shoot the clutch as the angle with the front glass is very closed.

anyway, he's still fanning, there is no more predator in the tank, I won't be here the next 5 days, I don't see what could go wrong this time...

wait and see...

I just come back from a quick 5' staring session The female is very much thinner than she was before, of course, and less wounded than last time... She has a few bite marks on the back, and the caudal fin seems a bit more biten too... otherwise, she's fine ! last time she was badly wounded on the belly and on the back too... maybe was it because of a first time in a tank ?

[ElTofi]

Hi you all,

very bad news, coming back from this wonderfull weekend in Hannover : I only found 5 larvae (and one is not very well) in the nursery on the 40 I laid just before leaving on Friday. The snails cleaned up the rest... And in the tank, to my great pain, the cave was empty, with the male hardly venting... No idea of what happened.

Anyway, as my wife told me : "there are things much more sad in this world today"... isn't she right ? They spawned twice and I did not so bad in last January. I'm going to concentrate on these 5 left and try to bring them to a decent size.

news here as soon as I have any.

sorry for this failure... I really wanted to go to Hannover, and I think this was the best choice !

[hotchiliz]

OMG....that's really a pity to hear about this.

I hope you can get over it. At least, you are one of the few that managed to breed scarlet these days.
Many of us here are trying hard to breed them, but no success.

I hope to see more of ur updates soon...Maybe another batch in 2 months time.

Cheers
Mingxin

[Haavard Stoere]

The breeding pair is ok, and that is the most important thing. I will continue to follow this thread closely.

The L25 juveniles I got from you seem very robust, and eats everything I offer them.

[ElTofi]

I'm sure they are robust... after all, they come from my lost mountain And I'm sure they eat everything too : they have been fed til Tuesday only... they had nothing to eat from this time...

I'll gladly see a few pictures of them in your installation as soon as you'll get ready.

@MingXin : I have great hopes on L25... I'm sure I'll be able to raise a batch properly soon... and as our Norvegian said : the pair is OK, that's the most important...

[Cristoffer Forssander]

You would probably be able to make another simulation to get them into breeding mood again this winter!
The pair seemes to get along well!

I'm sure that you will rais a few more!

[ElTofi]

END OF THE STORY ! my female is dead within 24 hours (see the topic : I lost 3 L14... and now it comes to L25)

I'm not even angry ! I'm just desperate

[dconnors]

I am absolutely gutted for your loss! I hope that you can somehow find another female...I have a few adolescents growing out right now. I was inspired to get these by your tale of success and can only imagine the horror of watching your female die and being unable to do anything. Man, this just sucks!

[ElTofi]

I'm trying to save the L25 male and if I can, I'm not sure I want to keep it...

even if I can find another similar sized female, nothing tells me he will accept her... worst, he could kill any newcomer into this tank...

I'll give you news on the topic, but I guess the L25 male (45 cm TL) will be "for sale" in a few days... if anyone has interest -> MP

[hotchiliz]

END OF THE STORY ! my female is dead within 24 hours (see the topic : I lost 3 L14... and now it comes to L25)

I'm not even angry ! I'm just desperate

You are not alone, my friend.

I had a very disastrous day. My whole colony of fries and the parents are wipe out when i was away for 2 weeks.
It is terrible and i have to start my pair again from scratch..

[ElTofi]

I'm so sorry too... and I feel less alone

so let's say we'll find a way to start it all again... or at least, let's try it...

[celticfish]

Very sad for your loss...
I recall admiring the fry at the L-Numbers Day vividly.
At least some of the progeny have spread to another country. *winks at haavard*