Synodontis eupterus white patches!?

[Tigger_Sly]

Hi one of my Synodontis eupterus has some white patches/scratches on him, and possibly a sign of fin rot on the 'bump' fin between his dorsal and tail. He's had white patches before when there's been a problem in the tank (lack of O2, ammonia spike etc), but the tank is perfect at the moment and no one else is displaying any symptoms.

I'm wondering if it can be brought on by stress? I moved some of the plants around just before this happened and his fellow syno tank mate has been chasing him around a lot, I'm presuming to sort out territory as the landscape changed slightly. The syno with the white patches has always been a bit of a runt bless him, kinda smaller and scraggier than his tank mate who is a perfect specimen despite buying them together. They are usually the best of friends.....not at the moment though!

Any ideas what I can do?!

[MatsP]

Any chance there is another syno in there that it's fighting with?

A photo of the damaged areas would help a whole lot to determine what the cause is...

Synos are tough, so as long as we can fix the cause of the problem, the prospects are very good.
--
Mats

[Tigger_Sly]

I only have the two syno's, both same age bought together. As I said the one with the patches is kind of the runt of the litter, he's got a lop sided mouth and deformed gills (you can actually see into his head), he does seem to be more sensitive to tank changes which may be another sign of weakness in his genetics. In comparison to my other syno has grown much larger so now throws his weight around a bit. Until I changed the plant around they were good friends, even slept together. Now however they seem to spend the best part of the evening chasing each other around the tank, which I'm sure is where the scratches have come from, probably brushing past bog wood etc.
I have some pics, I'll upload them tonight when I get home.
Any idea on the possible fin rot? Sorry I don't know the exact name of the fin/body area, it's the top of the semi-circular bump between the dorsal fin and tail.

Thanks

[Tigger_Sly]

Hi, these are the only pics I have atm before the white areas appeared on his skin.
The photo's aren't the best quality but you can see the difference in size and the deformed gills on Tigger who is the smaller one on the left. The other photo is his tankmate.

Thanks

[Carp37]

My euptera got mystery white circular/oval patches on her belly last year- after several days of head-scratching I eventualy worked out these were heater burns caused by a heater having become dislodged (that I hadn't spotted). It's unlikely to be the same thing but worth considering.

[Richard B]

The semicircular bump between the tail & dorsal fin is the adipose fin

[Tigger_Sly]

Adipose fin, as a medic you'd think I'd have guessed that! Thanks for the idea about the heater....it's not moved though an he spends very little time near it so I doubt it's that unfortunately.
Here is a picture of how he looked about a week ago, he's much better now luckily, but there are still some residual white patches lingering, plus now the possible fin rot on the adipose fin. It's only on a small patch of the outer edge but looks a bit pink on the rim and sore.
Any ideas on how to treat/improve the situation will be gladly recieved! I've done a gently tank clean and water change plus put in a half dose treatment with Myxazin to try and help the fin.
Thanks everyone!

[MatsP]

The gill cover flayed out like that indicates high levels of nitrate in the tank. I don't know if that's related to the white spots or not. I don't know what the white spots are...

--
Mats

[andywoolloo]

2 is a bad # to keep together I learned on this site.

I keep heater guards on all my syno pl*co tanks. just in case.

What are your readings for A NI NA PH temp what size tank are they in? Did I miss that?

How long have they been together?

I'm presuming to sort out territory as the landscape changed slightly.

I have 5 in a 75 gal and I have learned the hard way to not muck about with their furniture or else all hell breaks loose! I practically have to write a map down when I move something to clean under it or in it etc.. and put back exactly, I swear these euptera can tell when something is a smidge out of place.

He sure looked bad in that last picture but in the one above, in the pic with the bully he looks better, that one is more current right? still his gill plate, wow, still looks strange.

If the OPs tank is big enough and if there is water quality issue that he gets under control, is it too late for him to add some more euptera to allleviate issues?

[Tigger_Sly]

Thanks for all the messages, I'll try and answer all the questions now:

The gills being very open have always been like that since he grew older (he's about 12months), as mentioned he also has a wonky shaped mouth so I think he's got a multitude of problems, more than likely genetic bless him.

They were both newborns and the same size when I got them around 12 months ago, they were initially the size of my neons but are now about 4-5inches.

The nitrate, nitrite and ammonia are all zero, pH 7.2, temp 27 and tank size 125 litres. I do most of my water changes with RO water with added minerals from my local aquarium shop so the water quality is usually very good, as it is at the moment.

I agree the picture I put up of him about a week ago was really bad, I totally panicked as it happened literally overnight! He is looking much better now but still has some faint white marks and the odd scratch. The myxazin treatment seems to be helping with the adipose fin, just hoping he improves all round!

I don't think my tank would be big enough to handle any more synos, I don't have that many other fish in there so they feel like they've got enough space. I know what you mean about them knowing when you've moved stuff, I didn't touch the bogwood caves that I've made them though I only took out some old plants and replaced with new.....I wouldn't have thought that would have bothered them this much!

I'm stumped to be honest, I'll continue with the the fin rot treatment and more water changes in the mean time and hope for the best. If anyone has any other gems of wisdom that would be great!!

[Richard B]

A nitrate reading of zero is extremely unusual - is the test method accurate? - kits can go off after a while

[Tigger_Sly]

I use the API freshwater master test kit:

http://www.theaquariumshop.com.au/shope ... Test%20Kit

Had it around 6-8months? The reading for nitrate was pale yellow.

[MatsP]

There should be SOME nitrate in an established tank - at least if it's got more than tiny fish and/or massive amounts of plants.

--
Mats

[Tigger_Sly]

I don't know, the readings usually vary between 0-5, the tank is 125 litres with a fair bit of bog wood and 4-5 plants. I have the 2 synos, 2 angels, 1 barb and 10 neons. Not a massive amount of fish I know but as the angels get tall and the catfish will still grow I didn't want to over crowd the tank.

[Richard B]

I am certainly not doubting what you tell me, please don't think i am, but any aquarium with fish in is most likely gonna have some nitrate - the yellow chart could mean zero is 0-4 ppm as the next graduation starts at 5ppm. If this is accurate it is great.

We have seen incidences where people have bought a new test kit & got a reading but later found out the shop had had the test kit on the shelf for a couple of years.

[Tigger_Sly]

Ahh ok I see, some of the bottles in my kit are starting to run low so maybe I'll get another one just to check and make sure it's from a new batch. I'm a scientist though so they shouldn't go off too quickly as you mix individual components for the reaction to take place, like you say though there is no accounting for how long the kit was sat in the shop!
The readings from the tank have been consistent for months so hopefully it's just in the low range of the reading like you mentioned. The only thing I do have fairly high levels of is phosphate, I've bought various things to lower it but eventually it just creeps back up. I've spoke to my aquarium and they say that's common for water in our area, the fish don't seem to mind it though.

[MatsP]

Phosphate isn't harmful to fish (unless it's extreme levels). The main problem caused by phosphate would be algae growing in the tank...

--
Mats

[andywoolloo]

I use the API freshwater Master test kit also and have had issues with the NA one.

you have to smash that second bottle really hard and shake it for a real long time , speciallly if you haven't used them in awhile. Smash it on a table and then shake shake shake. It's important to do the drops cover shake then do the other drops cover shake.

And the lot # on the bottle shows the mos and year made, the last four digits, they (API) say the NA is good for three years past the date of manufacture.

someone of fishlore.com posted their NA API test kit issues response from API themselves, very good useful info:

http://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/test- ... users.html

[Birger]

If anyone has any other gems of wisdom that would be great!!

I don't think my tank would be big enough to handle any more synos, I don't have that many other fish in there so they feel like they've got enough space.

I will add to what was said earlier...it was mentioned 2 was a bad number, well as these are maturing they will get more "grouchy", you may have already had notice of this when you made some changes. Also as they get bigger and older they or most likely the dominant one may try to expand their territorial limits somewhat which in a tank this size does not leave much for expansion. You do not mention the actual tank size but your comment leads me to believe it is "just" suitable. They will most likely tolerate each other but the less dominant will often be on the edge and will pay a price at times.

[Tigger_Sly]

Hi,
Aquarium size is 80cm long x 35cm wide x 45cm high. Volume 125 litres. I realise that this may not be big enough for them long term and I intend of upgrading as they get older. They're only 12months at the moment though so still babies really in the grand scheme of things.
Tigger with the white patches was looking pretty much back to normal this morning so I am pleased, hopefully it will stay that way!
Thanks everyone for all your advice,
Lorna